(NA) 1 Pack of Cigarettes vs. Lungs

As a surgeon I can attest to the reality of this image
 

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I've never smoked, but my parents both did during the whole time I was growing up, until I was about 11. Then my mother developed a leukoplakia on her palate that was originally diagnosed as cancer. That was enough to motivate her to quit, and quit she did, at the age of 50, and never touched another cigarette for as long as she lived. She eventually developed COPD in her last years anyway though, and ended up dying from the complications from it at 91. My father smoked for another 20 years or so but eventually quit in his 70s.

Me, I've never smoked, never had a desire to. But I have some concerns because until Mom quit, both of them smoked in the house every day, so I was exposed to lots of second hand smoke. I also have some kind of reactive airways condition, since I reacted violently to a methacholine challenge that was part of a full pulmonary function test I was having for a different reason. I wonder if that is due to all of the second hand smoke I inhaled as a kid. Never had an asthma attack though.

As far as smoking being confined to the poor, I'm not so sure about that. No one living in the condo building I was in for nearly 20 years was actually poor, but nearly all of them smoked. Smoking does appear to be *mostly* confined to people who work blue-collar jobs, and that seems to be true here in Vermont too. But I wouldn't classify all of these people as truly poor.
 
inactive15 said:
In the video he is using the vacuum chamber to completely filter the smoke through the cotton balls. While smoking a typical cigarette an individual inhales and exhales the smoke intermittently only absorbing/depositing a fraction of the smoke within the lungs. I never smoked cigarettes but will enjoy three to six cigars a year.
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It's definitely not a particularly scientific test, but I don't think that was the point. We all know smoking is atrocious for your health(I hope), its just a reminder and something to get conversation going. For that purpose... I think it's done quite well :)
 
When I taught Introductory Biology I had a really long diatribe about smoking, trying to get young people off the stuff. I justified taking that much class time to do it by figuring that if I was successful in getting someone to stop, the State would save money equivalent to my yearly salary in deferred health costs. Of course, if I prevent them from getting cancer the State will save more money than they've ever paid me.
 
azure said:
But I have some concerns because until Mom quit, both of them smoked in the house every day, so I was exposed to lots of second hand smoke.
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Back in the 60s and 70s I think everyone had at least one parent who chain smoked. Mom didn't want an open car window to mess up her hair so the smoke was so thick you couldn't see the front seat.

To this day the slightest whiff of second hand smoke will keep me from inhaling.
 
I remember clearly the last time I tried to smoke a cigarette. It was in 1981 at a bar in Odessa, TX. It was about 1:00 AM, I was sitting at the bar about half-ass drunk, someone had left a pack of cigs and a lighter laying there, so I thought "What the hell" and fired one up. Problem was, the damn thing wouldn't stay lit. I tried several times to light it, but no joy. Finally I realized I was lighting the filter end - the tobacco end was in my mouth. I put it down and looked around to make sure no one saw me.

BTW, I never smoked an entire cigarette in my life. I bet I haven't taken even 5 puffs.
 
My mother started smoking a cigarette in the car with me when I was young, I remember it like yesterday. I very critically asked her what she was doing. She pulled the thing out of her mouth, looked at it, and put it out. That was the last time I ever saw her with a cigarette.

My old man, big sister, and I think brother in law all smoked. Sis was a scientist like me, knew the ramifications. Still smoked. I'll probably get some nasty cancer second hand from all their smoking. House always smelled of the stuff, too. Bleech.
 
It’s one of those smells that you cannot get rid of no matter what you do. Basically have to eradicate what ever it is to totally clear the odor.
 
I had a 2 pack a day habit from about 21-25.. Quit at 25.. Stayed quit for 10 years, and picked it up again. Started vaping about 2 years ago.. went from 18mg nicotine down to 1.5 mg. Don't miss the cigs.. Sometimes I will drop down to 0mg, and just keep my hands busy with the vaping motion
 
Ryanb said:
It’s one of those smells that you cannot get rid of no matter what you do. Basically have to eradicate what ever it is to totally clear the odor.
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I have a leather motorcycle race suit I bought for cheap on Ebay. I've had it for years. I've ridden in it on a couple long trips. Damn thing still smells like cigarettes.
 
A lot of people pose anecdotal evidence of "oh I knew a smoker that lived to 95" and while that may be true you have to look at quality of life. The guy I bought my plane from was maybe 70 or late 60's (looked much worse) and smoked atleast a pack a day. His hangar was 500 feet behind his house and asked if I wouldn't mind driving between the house and hangar for him... he couldn't walk that far over a grass area. What kind of life is that? Luckily he never smoked in the plane and it doesn't smell like cigarettes at all.
 
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Mtns2Skies said:
A lot of people pose anecdotal evidence of "oh I knew a smoker that lived to 95" and while that may be true you have to look at quality of life. The guy I bought my plane from was maybe 70 or late 60's (looked much worse) and smoked atleast a pack a day. His hangar was 500 feet behind his house and asked if I wouldn't mind driving between the house and hangar for him... he couldn't walk that far over a grass area. What kind of life is that? Luckily he never smoked in the plane and it doesn't smell like cigarettes at all.
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Yep smokers will always justify their habit some how. “OMG you haven’t heard about the amazing health benefits of smoking?!”
 
Mtns2Skies said:
A lot of people pose anecdotal evidence of "oh I knew a smoker that lived to 95" and while that may be true you have to look at quality of life. The guy I bought my plane from was maybe 70 or late 60's (looked much worse) and smoked atleast a pack a day. His hangar was 200 feet behind his house and asked if I wouldn't mind driving between the house and hangar for him... he couldn't walk that far over a grass area. What kind of life is that? Luckily he never smoked in the plane and it doesn't smell like cigarettes at all.
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Certainly I've seen both sides. My next door neighbor in Ohio was a chain smoker, died from cancer in his early 60s. Conversely my grandmother smoked for a few decades (quit in the 1960 or 70s I think) and lived to 94 with a good quality of life. My uncle's smoked his entire adult life, and is in his early 80s. His quality of life is currently poor, but I don't know how much of that is due directly to smoking vs. him just being lazy and letting his body deteriorate. There's a correlation there, sure, if he hadn't smoked it probably would've been easier for him to be more active. But he just wasn't an active person and never led an active lifestyle and it's hard to say how much of that was chicken vs. egg. The evidence is clear of the negative long term effects for most people, though. It's much like riding a motorcycle without a helmet. You might be fine, but the statistics pretty clearly show you probably won't be.

Like any other vice you have some people who have addictive personalities and some who don't, and some whose bodies will react more poorly to it than others. Some folks can just put it down and never have an issue, some can't kick the habit. And some folks can smoke for years with seemingly no ill effects, while some will drop dead in their 40s. Health wise, you don't know which category you fall into until it's too late to make a change if it turns out you're in the category where it's going to severely harm you. No different from alcohol in that regard, and alcohol adds in the various mental impairment functions that result in many fatalities (and more than a few births) each year than smoking.

What I find the most humorous is how many people in the healthcare industry smoke. Similar to alcohol, there's a stress relief aspect to some (depending on consumption quantity) and they can ignore the long-term effects because those "won't happen to me for a long time, if ever."

Personally, I don't smoke, but I don't vilify it or care if others do... unless they're smoking in a car with kids. I also don't care if people drink so long as they aren't then going out and driving or flying. And I don't care if people wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle or not. My senior year of college I had a roommate who would ride on the back of my motorcycle. She work tank top, short short, flip flops, no helmet. We made an odd pairing since she had no protective anything and I wore full gear all the time.
 
CC268 said:
Yep smokers will always justify their habit some how. “OMG you haven’t heard about the amazing health benefits of smoking?!”
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Yeah it helps you relax and it also boosts your metabolism. Helps keep your weight in check.

;)
 
steingar said:
I have a leather motorcycle race suit I bought for cheap on Ebay. I've had it for years. I've ridden in it on a couple long trips. Damn thing still smells like cigarettes.
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I believe it!
 
Some for 25 years, quit 25 years ago. Help all around and I can't believe how bad I smelled.
 
Like just about everything, tobacco probably does have some medicinal benefit:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10958212

Very few, if any, things are 100% good or 100% bad. In the case of tobacco it might be 99.9999% bad, and there may be no case where there's a net benefit from smoking, but that's still not 100%.
 
I remember going to the doctor as a kid.

She smoked and was terribly over weight. She always told me to not start smoking....as she examined me with a cigarette in her mouth....
 
azure said:
As far as smoking being confined to the poor, I'm not so sure about that. No one living in the condo building I was in for nearly 20 years was actually poor, but nearly all of them smoked. Smoking does appear to be *mostly* confined to people who work blue-collar jobs, and that seems to be true here in Vermont too. But I wouldn't classify all of these people as truly poor.
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Some interesting stats below. Smoking rates seem to scale most with education, dropping rapidly with a college and then graduate degree. This data only distinguishes income by above/below poverty line but below poverty line has a ~40% increase in smoking rates.
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/campaign/tips/resources/data/cigarette-smoking-in-united-states.html

This data is a bit older (2008) but has more granular breakdown of income vs smoking rates

https://news.gallup.com/poll/105550/among-americans-smoking-decreases-income-increases.aspx

It shows a pretty strong correlation of smoking and income, with the highest smoking rates in the quite poor.
 
Please don't trying tout health benefits from smoking. Go back and read what I wrote in post #10. Happens every time you smoke. You damage your lungs every time you smoke, and its irreversible. No health benefit, even if there was one, could possibly outweigh that.
 
E-cig use is way up in CO high schools, smoking down. Not good but at least not burning.
 
steingar said:
I have a leather motorcycle race suit I bought for cheap on Ebay. I've had it for years. I've ridden in it on a couple long trips. Damn thing still smells like cigarettes.
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I purchased an Apollo 13 Pinball machine in 2010 that was a re-import from Finland. I spent six weeks restoring it, unfortunately it took about six years for the cigarette smoke aroma to diffuse out of all of the wood components.
 
inactive15 said:
I purchased an Apollo 13 Pinball machine in 2010 that was a re-import from Finland. I spent six weeks restoring it, unfortunately it took about six years for the cigarette smoke aroma to diffuse out of all of the wood components.
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We inherited my Suegro's old humidor. It was cleaned, oiled, left out in the sun for a month, everything we could think of. Ten years later it still smells.
 
steingar said:
The thing is, anyone can rationalize the cancer. Oh, it may not happen to me, or if it does it'll be later. But your lungs get worse with each and every cigarette, and it is completely irreversible.

The single best thing you can do for your health is quit smoking. If you smoke, stop right away. If you know someone who smokes get them to stop. In the halls of Steinholme is anyone is found smoking they are assumed to be on fire and treated appropriately.
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My Mom and Dad smoked like chimneys. My maternal grandmother smoked as well (everyone did back in the day) and died of lung cancer in +/- 1960, and it was a horrible painful death. Because of that, Mom quit cold turkey; dad kept smoking. About 4 years later, Dad quit cold turkey, too. I can't imagine the difficulty of Mom's quitting while living with Dad, who was a pack a day man. But both did it!

Dad died at age 98 of congestive heart failure. Mom is still alive at 97. So yes, your body can recover from the effects of smoking! Quit Now!

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
My Mom and Dad smoked like chimneys. My maternal grandmother smoked as well (everyone did back in the day) and died of lung cancer in +/- 1960, and it was a horrible painful death. Because of that, Mom quit cold turkey; dad kept smoking. About 4 years later, Dad quit cold turkey, too. I can't imagine the difficulty of Mom's quitting while living with Dad, who was a pack a day man. But both did it!

Dad died at age 98 of congestive heart failure. Mom is still alive at 97. So yes, your body can recover from the effects of smoking! Quit Now!

-Skip
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With that being said, it's amazing how much torture people put the the human body through and it can withstand it and still function day to day. Sometimes I'm surprised that people live as long as they do, with the lifestyle habits that they partake in.
 
Ryanb said:
With that being said, it's amazing how much torture people put the the human body through and it can withstand it and still function day to day. Sometimes I'm surprised that people live as long as they do, with the lifestyle habits that they partake in.
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Life is funny that way. Sometimes you see some terrible trauma that people live through... and then sometimes the smallest thing can snuff life out. I tend to treat my body well but otherwise not worry about things. Afterall, people die everyday.
 
Skip Miller said:
My Mom and Dad smoked like chimneys. My maternal grandmother smoked as well (everyone did back in the day) and died of lung cancer in +/- 1960, and it was a horrible painful death. Because of that, Mom quit cold turkey; dad kept smoking. About 4 years later, Dad quit cold turkey, too. I can't imagine the difficulty of Mom's quitting while living with Dad, who was a pack a day man. But both did it!

Dad died at age 98 of congestive heart failure. Mom is still alive at 97. So yes, your body can recover from the effects of smoking! Quit Now!

-Skip
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I've heard that if you quit smoking that the effects are almost 100% reversed after 10 years. I suspect that's not entirely true, but I suspect it's close enough. Probably about the only time that it's too late is once you're at the Stage 4 cancer realm, and even then it still can't hurt.

When my neighbor in Ohio got lung cancer he tried fighting it for a while, and then decided the treatment was worse than the disease. So he gave up. Never quit smoking, although he cut down some. Obviously for him it was too late - he died a bit over 3 years ago now.

Ryanb said:
With that being said, it's amazing how much torture people put the the human body through and it can withstand it and still function day to day. Sometimes I'm surprised that people live as long as they do, with the lifestyle habits that they partake in.
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Well, life expectancy has gone way up vs. a couple hundred years ago.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, life expectancy has gone way up vs. a couple hundred years ago.
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Life expectancy has gone up because society has begun living healthier lives. From what I was saying above, I'm shocked at how much trauma the human body can withstand from those who choose to follow these poor lifestyle practices.
 
Three of my four grandparents died of smoking related cancers (2 of them in their 50's). The one grandparent who didn't smoke lived to 103. I know this is just four data points and genetics plays a role, but there seems to be a correlation. My parents both smoked, but they quit back in the 1960's (though my mom started again when my niece died and quit again). My mom died of a ruptured colon at 72. My dad (who both of his parents died in their 50's from cancer) is still alive an well at the age of 88, which is apparently a family record (ok, half my genetics kind of suck, but his younger brother is doing well too and is a non-smoker).
 
Ryanb said:
With that being said, it's amazing how much torture people put the the human body through and it can withstand it and still function day to day. Sometimes I'm surprised that people live as long as they do, with the lifestyle habits that they partake in.
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You mean it’s amazing how hard some people send it and live to tell about it?
 
Ryanb said:
Life expectancy has gone up because society has begun living healthier lives. From what I was saying above, I'm shocked at how much trauma the human body can withstand from those who choose to follow these poor lifestyle practices.
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Healthier lives is a huge part of it, modern medicine has gone a long way as well. And the fact that lazy people (engineers) have invented tools that allow us to not work ourselves quite so much to death.
 
There are lots of things that get healthier once you quit. Blood pressure can do down, circulation can increase, and yes the lungs do clear up quite quickly. However, there are two things from which you can't recover. The first I've mentioned, your pulmonary capacity never recovers, the damage is irreversible. You built up collateral circulation and other workarounds, but if you do sports or heavy work you'll notice for the rest of your life.

The other is cancer susceptibility. A very well known lung cancer researcher told me that the cancer risk for lung cancer was set after ten years, i.e. after ten years of smoking, quitting won't lower your chances of getting lung cancer. There are a few other cancers that follow this mode of epidemiology, though there are many that don't, i.e. if you quit you can reduce your cancer risk.

Mrs. Steingar smoked for ten years in her youth and has a strong cancer history in her family. I worry.
 
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