NA — Moen or Delta Faucet

JGoodish

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JGoodish
Looking for a new kitchen faucet. Style preferences aside, is there much difference between these two brands?

Seems like Moen has more market share and a reputation for great customer service, but Delta may use better cartridges. I’ve had a Moen cartridge leak in the past, but Moen quickly shipped a replacement at no cost.

Everything else in the house is Kohler, and while there have been no functional issues with any of those fixtures, Kohler is a real pain in the neck to deal with for warranty claims.

Considered the European brands (Grohe, HansGrohe, etc.) but availability of products and parts seems to be limited in my area. Also not sure if they’re worth twice the price.
 
Ford or Chevy?


The arguement is a moot point from conception. Buy the one that you like the looks better.
 
They all suck. You have to stand and wait forever to fill a large container. Stupid water conservation, wasting more time. Next faucet I buy will be a new old stock 15 gpm faucet that blows the cup out of my hand if I turn I on too fast.
 
I've used Delta and Moen. Of course, I buy the cheapest ones and have changed out a couple over the last 30 years of home ownership. I just added a couple of Pfister bathroom faucets and they seem pretty good and include a "forever" warranty for as long as you own the house - I'm pretty sure that includes the cartridges.
 
There is a $70 I think one on amazon, some unknown named company from China on amazon. It’s the one you can pull down and have 3 spray patterns. Running great for over 2 years now. Same stuff in moen or delta is $300. I will post the link if I can find it. Installation is super simple.
 
It’s called wewe single handed high arc faucet. Shows $81 today, I had paid $69
 
Moen. Lifetime support. Need a part that wore out? Call them and they send you a new one free.
 
I can't remember the OEM brand that was installed in the kitchen sink, but it really, really sucked. To the point that it qualified as a "bad product, do not use." The cartridges were made of plastic, and the hot water side broke first. Of course it made a big flood. Of course no stock replacements were available for it. It wasn't replaced immediately, as a kitchen remodel was being contemplated, but the cold side broke a couple weeks later. Another flood.

I ended up replacing it with a Moen. I physically inspected the underside of the fixture to ensure it wasn't made of plastic. It wasn't terribly expensive, but it's pretty nice - the swing handle feature is nice when one has greasy hands and needs water.
 
I just had to replace all 6 cartridges on my Moen faucets in the bathrooms. Not happy!! Go with Delta.
 
I hated used both, in my experiance Moen is the better product for durability. For sink facets it is no big deal to change facets. For tubs and showers I want the most durable.
 
They all suck.

I'm beginning to think that this is the bottom line. Based on my own experience, I've had to replace a Moen cartridge once in 10 years (not a terrible record) on a prior faucet, and since Delta switched to ceramic cartridges I suspect they are better but I have no real experience. However...

We ordered two faucets that my wife liked, one from Delta and one from Moen. These are "pro" faucets and not big-box specials. Just cracked open the boxes and attempted installs.

We much prefer the finish and look of the Delta, but I have never seen more internal plastic construction in my life. Delta used all solid PEX supply lines, plastic fittings on all of the hoses, and the under-sink backing plate used to secure the faucet to the sink deck is also plastic. The threaded tube that holds the faucet to the backing plate underneath is metal, but does not appear to be brass, and is offset from center to permit all of the inflexible PEX to exit from the faucet body in one place; as a result, when the faucet body is tightened down on the sink deck, the mounting force is biased slightly to one side. Since the deck gasket that Delta includes doesn't sit under the faucet securely, once everything is tightened down with the bias to the off-center mounting tube, the gasket is unevenly compressed and tends to slip out to one side; it is slight, but noticeable if closely inspected, which I fear over time could let water past it or simply cause the gasket to slip out and the faucet to become loose. The braided hose for the pull down faucet head is thin, cheap, and easily kinks so that if the faucet head is pulled out too far, or is angled too much (if spraying out the sink, for example), the flow of water slows or stops. The switch on the faucet head feels cheap and doesn't seem to switch the spray/stream action as positively as what I've experienced on Moens in the past. A really poor design with chintzy parts, in my opinion. On the plus side, Delta claims to use a ceramic cartridge (supposedly better), they appear to use o-rings everywhere rather than washers, and we like the magnetic dock of the pull down faucet head. Also, the faucet head reaches out slightly more than the Moen into our sink, which means that there is slightly less of a reach forward to wash hands, etc. This faucet claims a 1.8gpm flow rate.

The Moen is a similar design, and appears to use slightly less plastic. The supply lines are braided plastic hoses, which are much easier to manipulate, but they also use traditional washers instead of o-rings at the connection points (had problems with leaks here on a prior Moen faucet, which were eventually corrected with replacement parts). All of the hose ends are brass, including the faucet head hose. The tube which anchors the sink extends up through the body and appears to be brass, and is centered on the body, which means that when tightened to the sink deck the faucet is pulled uniformly on the deck gasket. The under-sink backing plate is steel and anchors the base of the faucet firmly. Moen is a bit coy about the construction of their cartridge, but I suspect that it is a more traditional non-ceramic design which will eventually start to leak and need to be serviced or replaced. The finish on the Moen is not as uniform as that on the Delta, to the point where if we keep this one I will call Moen for a replacement part to see if I can get a more even finish. There is a black plastic bushing which keeps the neck of the faucet from contacting the base when the neck is rotated from side to side, and that was snapped in two right out of the box, but it is internal and the fact that it's split doesn't seem to affect its function. The valve, whatever it is, is much easier to operate (less force required) than that of the Delta, so it's easy to operate it with one finger or the back of the hand. The pull down faucet head doesn't "lock in" to the faucet arm with a magnet like the Delta, relying instead on the under-sink hose weight to hold it in place, and it doesn't pull out quite as far but the hose is fairly substantial and does not kink. The buttons on the faucet head to change from spray to stream seem more substantial and solid in operation than those of the Delta. The high arc faucet arm doesn't extend quite as far into the sink as the Delta (~1.5" less), so it is necessary to lean over a bit more to reach the water flow but it's not a big deal. This faucet claims a 1.5gpm flow rate, though it also has a "power boost" button which appears to increase the flow rate substantially (perhaps up to the normal 2.2gpm.)

At this point, I think that the pros of the Moen are slightly more than the pros of the Delta for us. I spent last night reading online reviews, and it appears that pretty much every faucet manufacturer (including the expensive European ones) are moving or have moved to more plastic construction than in the past, and some of the same issues that I've noticed with the Moen and Delta seem to plague some of the more expensive faucets as well. I guess you just have to pick something decent, hope for the best, and repair it when it breaks.

Thanks all for the input.

EDIT: Discovered that Moen's "Duralast" cartridge used in the faucet above is in fact a newer ceramic design and not their decades-old traditional cartridge.


JKG
 
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Considered the European brands (Grohe, HansGrohe, etc.) but availability of products and parts seems to be limited in my area. Also not sure if they’re worth twice the price.

We have a Grohe in the kitchen. We replaced the wand twice before they changed the design and the new ones wouldn't work with the old fixture, so we had to replace the fixture as well. The new one has a wand made of plastic. If that one fails sometime in the future I'll be looking at something other than Grohe. 22 years so far, but this is an item I expect to last "forever".

I'm not sure they are worth twice the price, either.
 
Llts of things have been changing from metal to plastic. Not only is injection molding less expensive tha casting and machining, but part design is much, much more flexible. Finished parts also weigh less, which reduces shipping weight for the manufacturer (how many faucets does it take to fill an 18-wheeler? Times several ounces each, and it's a substantial number.).

Signed, three decades in injection molded plastic parts
 
Llts of things have been changing from metal to plastic. Not only is injection molding less expensive tha casting and machining, but part design is much, much more flexible. Finished parts also weigh less, which reduces shipping weight for the manufacturer (how many faucets does it take to fill an 18-wheeler? Times several ounces each, and it's a substantial number.).

Signed, three decades in injection molded plastic parts

Injection molded plastic parts are great in the right application. Critical, fail and get flooded applications are not right. Look, I have no problem specifying C900 PVC piping in sizes up to 24 inch diameter for municipal water pipelines, but those tiny HDPE or acrylic couplings on the faucet fixtures? No.
 
Injection molded plastic parts are great in the right application. Critical, fail and get flooded applications are not right. Look, I have no problem specifying C900 PVC piping in sizes up to 24 inch diameter for municipal water pipelines, but those tiny HDPE or acrylic couplings on the faucet fixtures? No.

You have no idea of the places that molded plastic parts are now used. For God's sake, don't look under the hood of a late-model car. Even my 1976 Chevy truck had a plastic gear stuck into the transmission to drive the speedometer and odometer. Right now at work, we make millions of complex assemblies whose plastic parts are submerged in water varying from still to flowing at up to 6000 cubit feet per minute, and we guarantee them for much longer than any automobile available on the market today.
 
Injection molded plastic parts are great in the right application. Critical, fail and get flooded applications are not right. Look, I have no problem specifying C900 PVC piping in sizes up to 24 inch diameter for municipal water pipelines, but those tiny HDPE or acrylic couplings on the faucet fixtures? No.

I agree 100 percent. Pressure water system, I hate plastic being used to contain that water, but it's pretty much unavoidable. I dislike plastic water pipe too that used for domestic water supply.
 
You have no idea of the places that molded plastic parts are now used. For God's sake, don't look under the hood of a late-model car. Even my 1976 Chevy truck had a plastic gear stuck into the transmission to drive the speedometer and odometer. Right now at work, we make millions of complex assemblies whose plastic parts are submerged in water varying from still to flowing at up to 6000 cubit feet per minute, and we guarantee them for much longer than any automobile available on the market today.

Oh I do. The intake manifold of my little Nissan is plastic. I have no problem with that, it seems to work and saves weight.

Stormwater pumps?
 
My understanding is that the switch from brass to plastic in potable water plumbing valves was at least in part due to regulation. One of my Kohler 2-handle bathroom fixtures had brass valves, and when they started to leak, they were too corroded to be disassembled. Kohler sent me replacement valves which were plastic. The plastic ones have not leaked and have not broken, but the flow of water through them is much louder.

I have no issue with plastic being used for some parts, but others (like backing plates which will be torqued down) should in my opinion be steel. PEX is in common use for residential water supply in new construction (though I still have copper in my house). If I were a plumber, I would probably prefer PEX inside the walls but flexible braided hoses under the fixtures, but that would likely have more to do with reducing install time than any technical reason.
 
They all suck. You have to stand and wait forever to fill a large container. Stupid water conservation, wasting more time. Next faucet I buy will be a new old stock 15 gpm faucet that blows the cup out of my hand if I turn I on too fast.

THIS. I've got that faucet on my laundry sink and I love it. All others in the house have the low flow problem. The toothpaste won't rinse out of my toothbrush. In the kitchen I have to turn on the hot water and go do my taxes before it gets there from the tank or the sink fills. Don't even get me started on low flow shower heads. And I am so enraged over low flow toilets I wrote President Trump a letter begging him to rescind whatever mindless regulation brought us that living hell.
 
My understanding is that the switch from brass to plastic in potable water plumbing valves was at least in part due to regulation. One of my Kohler 2-handle bathroom fixtures had brass valves, and when they started to leak, they were too corroded to be disassembled. Kohler sent me replacement valves which were plastic. The plastic ones have not leaked and have not broken, but the flow of water through them is much louder.

I have no issue with plastic being used for some parts, but others (like backing plates which will be torqued down) should in my opinion be steel. PEX is in common use for residential water supply in new construction (though I still have copper in my house). If I were a plumber, I would probably prefer PEX inside the walls but flexible braided hoses under the fixtures, but that would likely have more to do with reducing install time than any technical reason.

If I had PEX inside my walls I would rip it out and replace it with copper. PEX breaks. It doesn't handle repetitive flex movement well. I'm okay with SCH 40 PVC. Well, on the cold water side anyway.

On my latest water heater, they installed a brass drain valve with a plastic stem. Of course it broke the first time I tried to open it, now there is no way to drain the water heater.
 
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As we used to say in high school:

"It doesn't matter and what if it did?"
 
If I had PEX inside my walls I would rip it out and replace it with copper. PEX breaks. It doesn't handle repetitive flex movement well. I'm okay with SCH 40 PVC. Well, on the cold water side anyway.

On my latest water heater, they installed a brass drain valve with a plastic stem. Of course it broke the first time I tried to open it, now there is no way to drain the water heater.

The copper pipes in my house were all corroded and pinholed, leaking inside the basement ceilings. House built in 2003; I bought it in Aug 2015; first leak through the finished ceiling downstairs, Feb 2016.

All copper pipes were removed from the house, replaced with PEX all the way to the fixtures. Real PEX with crimped fittings, none of that Harry Homeowner sharkbite stuff.

Oh, the insurance provided when I bought the house paid $1300; homeowners pays nothing for damage that happens over time. I paid the other $5000+ and just didn't fly much. Then came patching and painting the ceilings downstairs, not just where it got soggy and fell in, but everywhere I had to cut it open to access the copper pipes that went through the foot-tall engineered floor joists. The kind of thing you can't see on a home inspection . . . . "Sheetrock covers a multitude of sins."

I'd have much rather spent that money on avgas . . . .

Since then, three of my immediate neighbors have had to do the same thing, the first one two weeks after I got finished. Tell me again how wonderful copper pipes are.
 
If I had PEX inside my walls I would rip it out and replace it with copper. PEX breaks. It doesn't handle repetitive flex movement well. I'm okay with SCH 40 PVC. Well, on the cold water side anyway.

On my latest water heater, they installed a brass drain valve with a plastic stem. Of course it broke the first time I tried to open it, now there is no way to drain the water heater.

Plumbers love PEX because it is less labor-intensive to install. Drill some holes, pull it through, terminate it and you're done. The central distribution manifolds that are typically used provide the convenience of controlling the supply to each individual fixture. There should be no joints in the walls between the manifold and the stub-out for the fixture, assuming that there are no repairs. And did I mention that it's faster to install?

As for me, I'm not sure what could be leaching out of it into the water supply, don't like the inevitable PEX to brass fittings, really don't like inline repairs, and I'm not sure of the overall long-term durability of a PEX installation.
 
I'm on my third Moen cartridge in the kitchen faucet and it's needing replaced after two years. Gonna get a new faucet soon. Guess what brand I won't consider.
 
I'm on my third Moen cartridge in the kitchen faucet and it's needing replaced after two years. Gonna get a new faucet soon. Guess what brand I won't consider.

Just don't get anything carried at Home Depot or Lowes. Those are chromed plastic. Go to a plumbing supply store and get good solid metal. It'll cost a lot more but it's a much better product.
 
The copper pipes in my house were all corroded and pinholed, leaking inside the basement ceilings. House built in 2003; I bought it in Aug 2015; first leak through the finished ceiling downstairs, Feb 2016.

All copper pipes were removed from the house, replaced with PEX all the way to the fixtures. Real PEX with crimped fittings, none of that Harry Homeowner sharkbite stuff.

Oh, the insurance provided when I bought the house paid $1300; homeowners pays nothing for damage that happens over time. I paid the other $5000+ and just didn't fly much. Then came patching and painting the ceilings downstairs, not just where it got soggy and fell in, but everywhere I had to cut it open to access the copper pipes that went through the foot-tall engineered floor joists. The kind of thing you can't see on a home inspection . . . . "Sheetrock covers a multitude of sins."

I'd have much rather spent that money on avgas . . . .

Since then, three of my immediate neighbors have had to do the same thing, the first one two weeks after I got finished. Tell me again how wonderful copper pipes are.
Bad water
 
Yep, funny pH and low hardness--it eats copper. But I can't change the water supply, only my own distribution. Which is now bad-water-proofed. Thanks, PEX!
Then PEX is the obvious choice for you, the "water source" should be treating that water, if it is corroding copper, it's corroding lead and other metals too, which you are drinking. Be careful. See Flint Michigan.
 
Then PEX is the obvious choice for you, the "water source" should be treating that water, if it is corroding copper, it's corroding lead and other metals too, which you are drinking. Be careful. See Flint Michigan.

Flint Michigan was a fail on many levels. The Federal Lead and Copper Rule (LCR) was supposed to address this. California got a rough start, decided not to adopt it and lost its primacy to enforce it. For a while. Now the State is enforcing it.

The problem is, corrosivity control is easier said than done. In a big system? No problem. pH correction or orthophosphate. In small systems? Tough, because it requires chemical feed systems and real operators. I deal with this crap day in and day out.
 
Then PEX is the obvious choice for you, the "water source" should be treating that water, if it is corroding copper, it's corroding lead and other metals too, which you are drinking. Be careful. See Flint Michigan.

The county supplies and treats the water, and posts "water quality reports" online . . . . .
 
I would go with Moen. Everyone recommends it. All the forums and websites like healthy kitchen 101 or the spruce recommend it. Plus, I read that Delta Faucet parts are hard to acquire. That could be a whole new “pain in the neck”.
 
Delta. Not the junk that home builders install in tract houses. Check out the catalog and find a local plumbing supply that sells the good stuff.

Now, when it comes to shower fixtures, Moen makes some nice stuff...
 
I have had both Moen and Delta in my home for +10 years. Have had zero problems with either, but opinion is the Moen is a better brand.
 
When I was building Anymouse Manor, my plumber recommended Delta. He also pointed me to a dealer that carried the good stuff, not the stuff Orange and Blue typically carry. Haven't had any issues at all with any of it.

Back in the day my step-father was a plumber that owned his own business. He swore by Delta.
 
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