N490NW - C172 - California to Hawaii

sonnikaz

sonnikaz

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Sonnikaz
Live, if anyone is interested.

I saw Blancolirio make a reference to this on his YouTube page with a comment of "Wow". I'm not sure if this is a ferry attempt or what the context is.

It was live when I was tracking it, with flight time of 15+ hours on FR24 ... Flightaware seems to indicate it's still chugging along.

Check out playback of aircraft N490NW from Merced to Honolulu on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/aircraft/n490nw#2d23f904
 
Just landed. I'm not sure how enviable sitting in place for 18+ hours is, so kudos to the pilot.
 
But how? (And why?) But more importantly, HOW? Did they somehow pack 200 gallons of fuel into that 172? And it has the takeoff capacity to carry the pilot, equipment, plus 1,200 lbs of fuel?
 
kicktireslightfires said:
But how? (And why?) But more importantly, HOW? Did they somehow pack 200 gallons of fuel into that 172? And it has the takeoff capacity to carry the pilot, equipment, plus 1,200 lbs of fuel?
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Where did you get those numbers? Just curious, that seems to be a lot more fuel than would be needed.
 
8.0 x 18 = 144 + 6 hrs reserve = 192 gal
7.5 x 18 = 135 + 6 hrs reserve = 180 gal

It's not hard to figure if you know your POH and decide the best cruising speed for range, and the expected time in flight with prevailing winds.
 
Salty said:
Where did you get those numbers? Just curious, that seems to be a lot more fuel than would be needed.
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As per flightaware speed was pretty constant average of 120 kts. Assume worst case 10 gph, then for 18 hrs. = 1800 gal
then divide by 6 pounds per gal = 300 pounds. Probably leaned properly and add in reserve, so 200 pounds might be a low estimate. Couple ferry tanks inside, no problem.
 
I'm not sure why this is getting so much news. Ferry flights with ferry tanks are nothing new - it's how these airplanes got/get over there in the first place. A few years ago there was a publicized Cirrus ferry flight where winds shifted and the pilot ended up having to ditch (used the parachute).

murphey said:
As per flightaware speed was pretty constant average of 120 kts. Assume worst case 10 gph, then for 18 hrs. = 1800 gal
then divide by 6 pounds per gal = 300 pounds. Probably leaned properly, so 200 pounds might be a low estimate. Couple ferry tanks inside, no problem.
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I think you got your math a bit off. :)

10 GPH * 18 hours = 180 gallons
180 gallons * 6 lb/gallon = 1080 lbs

It's still really not all that much in the grand scheme. I know we're talking about a 172, but still.
 
Ted said:
I'm not sure why this is getting so much news. Ferry flights with ferry tanks are nothing new - it's how these airplanes got/get over there in the first place. A few years ago there was a publicized Cirrus ferry flight where winds shifted and the pilot ended up having to ditch (used the parachute).



I think you got your math a bit off. :)

10 GPH * 18 hours = 180 gallons
180 gallons * 6 lb/gallon = 1080 lbs

It's still really not all that much in the grand scheme. I know we're talking about a 172, but still.
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Always did have a problem with that pesky decimal point in grade school. My physics teacher even wrote about it in my year book.
 
murphey said:
As per flightaware speed was pretty constant average of 120 kts. Assume worst case 10 gph, then for 18 hrs. = 1800 gal
then divide by 6 pounds per gal = 300 pounds. Probably leaned properly and add in reserve, so 200 pounds might be a low estimate. Couple ferry tanks inside, no problem.
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That's some non-standard math right there...
 
murphey said:
Always did have a problem with that pesky decimal point in grade school. My physics teacher even wrote about it in my year book.
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You just have to write in "Then a miracle occurs" as a step when you can't figure out what the next step ought to be and the numbers don't work out right.
 
Ted said:
You just have to write in "Then a miracle occurs" as a step when you can't figure out what the next step ought to be and the numbers don't work out right.
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Reminds me of ...
1. Get underpants
2. ??
3. PROFIT!
 
Ted said:
You just have to write in "Then a miracle occurs" as a step when you can't figure out what the next step ought to be and the numbers don't work out right.
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Can you spell Ditch boys and girls. Some crop duster did it, don’t remember the model, 50 miles short of Hilo many years ago. It was on it’s way to New Zealand. First leg was Santa Barbara Hilo
 
The OP said 15 hrs, how did we get to 18?
 
Salty said:
The OP said 15 hrs, how did we get to 18?
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It was at 15+ hours when the OP first posted but the flight was not yet complete. You can check the ADSB record and see the total time is pretty darn close to 18 hours. I'd also expect there was some not insignificant reserve on top of however long the flight took.

Nauga,
who ain't got time for that
 
nauga said:
It was at 15+ hours when the OP first posted but the flight was not yet complete. You can check the ADSB record and see the total time is pretty darn close to 18 hours. I'd also expect there was some not insignificant reserve on top of however long the flight took.

Nauga,
who ain't got time for that
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I’m kinda surprised he didn’t go to Monterey, top off and start from there.
 
I also quickly checked Winds Aloft at Honolulu - and he may have had a modest tailwind helping for at least part of the flight.

Are ferry flights uncommon, no. But from what I read the California to Hawaii route isn't incredibly forgiving for single prop. As one article pointed out, the weather dictates when you can go. If you look at the flight history for the plane, it went from Bellingham, Washington to Merced in April. It sat idle in Merced since April. Obviously I'm not sure if the gate was weather or availability of a qualified pilot willing to make the trip.
 
sonnikaz said:
I also quickly checked Winds Aloft at Honolulu - and he may have had a modest tailwind helping for at least part of the flight.

Are ferry flights uncommon, no. But from what I read the California to Hawaii route isn't incredibly forgiving for single prop. As one article pointed out, the weather dictates when you can go. If you look at the flight history for the plane, it went from Bellingham, Washington to Merced in April. It sat idle in Merced since April. Obviously I'm not sure if the gate was weather or availability of a qualified pilot willing to make the trip.
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Hmm. It looks like Cessna themselves owned that plane up until a few months ago. http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/AircraftDetailPage#SUBMIT
 
sonnikaz said:
Are ferry flights uncommon, no. But from what I read the California to Hawaii route isn't incredibly forgiving for single prop.
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West Coast to Hawaii isn't easy for a lot of aircraft. I know someone who dead-sticked a Lear into Oahu on that route.
 
sonnikaz said:
I also quickly checked Winds Aloft at Honolulu - and he may have had a modest tailwind helping for at least part of the flight.

Are ferry flights uncommon, no. But from what I read the California to Hawaii route isn't incredibly forgiving for single prop. As one article pointed out, the weather dictates when you can go. If you look at the flight history for the plane, it went from Bellingham, Washington to Merced in April. It sat idle in Merced since April. Obviously I'm not sure if the gate was weather or availability of a qualified pilot willing to make the trip.
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There's an outfit in Merced that's known for outfitting ferry tanks, ferry pilots, etc. I forget the name off hand though.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
What did it take to extract the seat cushion?
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As told weeks later, they were calm as a cucumber. Flamed out on descent, never announced, landed on the numbers, rolled onto the perpendicular taxiway, then told ground they had a steering problem and requested a tow. I'm guessing that wasn't how it really went down, but...
 
From Facebook:

"Well our brand new G1000 NXI Cessna 172 made the 18 hour and 5 min flight from Merced California to Honolulu (non stop) of course. Pilot Tom Lopes did it again. I will get the fuel numbers for those who care but we here at Georges Aviation is thrilled that we now have the “Newest” airplane for Rental and Instruction in the Hawaiian Islands. Yes the plane had to sit in California for months waiting for logistics “Wind” to turn in our favor as the season changed. Our first customer (Kalyan) is already scheduled to fly it first thing tomorrow Aug. 21st. You will see it available on the schedule when Kelianne has a chance to add it. Safe flying everyone."
 
It is interesting to me that the flight log shows a slow climb rate on departure but keeping speed up mostly over 100 kts to the initial altitude to 6100ft. I have not seen the actual account from the pilot but I wonder whether this I dictated by the gross or over gross weight, or for keeping higher IAS to allow for better control of the aircraft if out of envelope. If W&B is at the rear limit or in fact out of the W&B envelope, allowing fuel to burn off from the rear first will better get into balance later when the rear tank is exhausted. Or, is this simply a factor of capturing the best tailwind at that lower altitude and milking it. Normally, I would think of getting to best altitude for wind and TAS considerations as rapidly as possible to get maximal intended leaning started to save fuel burn.
 
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MajorTurbulence said:
It is interesting to me that the flight log shows a slow climb rate on departure but keeping speed up mostly over 100 kts to the initial altitude to 6100ft. I have not seen the actual account from the pilot but I wonder whether this I dictated by the gross or over gross weight, or for keeping higher IAS to allow for better control of the aircraft. If W&B is at the rear limit or in fact out of the W&B envelope, allowing fuel to burn off from the rear first will better get into balance later when the rear tank is exhausted. Or, is this simply a factor of capturing the best tailwind at that lower altitude and milking it. Normally, I would think of getting to best altitude for wind and engine TAS considerations as rapid as possible to get maximal intended leaning started to save fuel burn.
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It's a calculus problem. They made it, so they were within the envelope of correct answers.
 
Months of down time waiting for the perfect weather window, buying and having aux fuel tanks installed, the cost of fuel, the cost of the ferry pilot, etc. Wouldn't it have just been cheaper and easier to pull the wings, put it in a container and ship it over?
 
kmacht said:
Months of down time waiting for the perfect weather window, buying and having aux fuel tanks installed, the cost of fuel, the cost of the ferry pilot, etc. Wouldn't it have just been cheaper and easier to pull the wings, put it in a container and ship it over?
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Probably less likely to arrive intact that way.
 
kmacht said:
Months of down time waiting for the perfect weather window, buying and having aux fuel tanks installed, the cost of fuel, the cost of the ferry pilot, etc. Wouldn't it have just been cheaper and easier to pull the wings, put it in a container and ship it over?
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Container shipping expense is $5000. Plus disassembly, building a cradle, loading the airplane into the cradle and the container. Taking it out, reassembly.

BTW, I know the shipping cost, as there is CAP-10 in Hawaii for sale. I asked how much to get it back to the Mainland.
 
Pinecone said:
Container shipping expense is $5000. Plus disassembly, building a cradle, loading the airplane into the cradle and the container. Taking it out, reassembly.

BTW, I know the shipping cost, as there is CAP-10 in Hawaii for sale. I asked how much to get it back to the Mainland.
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Seems like opportunity costs were higher than that.
 
Pinecone said:
Container shipping expense is $5000. Plus disassembly, building a cradle, loading the airplane into the cradle and the container. Taking it out, reassembly.

BTW, I know the shipping cost, as there is CAP-10 in Hawaii for sale. I asked how much to get it back to the Mainland.
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Cap10. Fun aerobatic aircraft. But it has a wood spar. Is that wing easily detachable for shipping?
 
EdFred said:
It's a calculus problem. They made it, so they were within the envelope of correct answers.
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Not sure if serious. Not asking for regulatory purposes, just the strategy used in making such a flight. There are trade offs to everything.
 
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