N number change

pmanton

pmanton

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
5,334
Location
Indian Hills Airpark Salome, AZ
Display Name
Display name:
N1431A
When you request an N number change is the AW certificate changed along with the registration?

Thanks

Paul
N1431A
N83803
2AZ1
 
You have to go to the FSDO to get a new airworthiness certificate. You surrender the old one.

I was nervous doing that for no good reason.
 
mikea said:
You have to go to the FSDO to get a new airworthiness certificate. You surrender the old one.

I was nervous doing that for no good reason.
Click to expand...

Not true,, E-Mail your new N number and the Paper work to change the N number to FSDO and they will mail you out a new AWC reflecting the correct N number.
 
Tom-D said:
Not true,, E-Mail your new N number and the Paper work to change the N number to FSDO and they will mail you out a new AWC reflecting the correct N number.
Click to expand...

Well, the FAA rep wanted my old AW when I went in. They put in on file somewhere.
 
mikea said:
Well, the FAA rep wanted my old AW when I went in. They put in on file somewhere.
Click to expand...
I think that this is a FSDO thing. Not a FAA reg or policy.
 
Tom-D said:
I think that this is a FSDO thing. Not a FAA reg or policy.
Click to expand...

Might be. The Kansas City FSDO had me schedule an appointment to come in with my old AWC and paperwork authorizing the change. Took ten minutes and I walked out with a brand new one. The old one was shredded according to the guy that did mine.

I also verified that I could put 3" numbers on mine since I was catching a lot of grief from the local idiots (I mean pilots) saying I was illegal because the aircraft had just been painted. I knew I was right, but just wanted to verify that what I understood in the regs was correct. I was... :) I just can't cross the ADIZ without temp 12" numbers in place.

Brian
 
Tom-D said:
Not true,, E-Mail your new N number and the Paper work to change the N number to FSDO and they will mail you out a new AWC reflecting the correct N number.
Click to expand...
Tom may know an inspector who trusts him on this, but some will want to inspect the aircraft to ensure the new N-number is properly applied before issuing the new certificate.
(2) FAA inspectors should be alert for newly repainted aircraft registration marks and ensure the marking is consistent with 14 CFR § 45.29. An enforcement action should be initiated against the aircraft owner/operator whenever an FAA inspector finds that an aircraft has not been marked with 12-inch-high registration numbers in accordance with 14 CFR § 45.29(b)(1)(i) or (b)(3).
Click to expand...
Also, if you mail in the paperwork, which includes the old AWC, you're grounded in the interim until the new AWC comes back.
c. Special Registration Numbers.

(1) Aircraft owners must apply for a special registration number in writing to AFS-750 and describe the aircraft. Permission to place the special number on the aircraft will be given on Aeronautical Center Form 8050-64, Assignment of Special Registration Numbers. The owner must complete, sign, and return the original form to AFS-750 within 5 days after the special registration number is affixed to the aircraft. The duplicate of Aeronautical Center Form 8050-64 and the present airworthiness certificate must be presented to the FAA representative, who will issue a replacement airworthiness certificate showing the new registration number. The old Certificate of Aircraft Registration and the duplicate Aeronautical Center Form 8050-64 must be carried in the aircraft until the new Certificate of Aircraft Registration is received (see 14 CFR § 47.15(f) and figure 2-1 of this order).​
Click to expand...

Source: FAA Order 8130.2G
http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/order/8130.2g.pdf
 
Last edited:
Getting the FSDO involved worries me. I have an Aeronca Champ project that I wish to put the N number of my first Champ on. The number is open and I've reserved it. What I'm worried about is the, FSDO taking my old AW Certificate and telling me to request an inspection and new certificate after the project is finished.
Paul
2AZ1
 
Ron Levy said:
It is not stated in the relevant Order, quoted above.
Click to expand...

Seeing as FAR 45.22 applies to most of the fleet these days it's not a big issue unless you are 135 or any other application where you can't apply the 2" numbers.

and your other reference there is nothing there that forbids the use of electronic mail. That said, many inspectors won't use it. and there are circumstances where they will want to inspect to insure you aren't swapping data tags. but for the routine paper shuffle they will use E-mail.
 
pmanton said:
Getting the FSDO involved worries me. I have an Aeronca Champ project that I wish to put the N number of my first Champ on. The number is open and I've reserved it. What I'm worried about is the, FSDO taking my old AW Certificate and telling me to request an inspection and new certificate after the project is finished.
Paul
2AZ1
Click to expand...

I don't think you have anything to worry about. I called ahead of time and explained I was changing my N number to a personal one and had all of the paperwork from Oklahoma City already. I asked what needed to happen and they said come down to the office at 1430 and they'll have the new AWC ready for me. Not a word about inspections or visiting the airfield was ever mentioned.

Does the FSDO already know its a project plane? Otherwise, volunteer nothing.... :rolleyes:

Brian
 
pmanton said:
Getting the FSDO involved worries me. I have an Aeronca Champ project that I wish to put the N number of my first Champ on. The number is open and I've reserved it. What I'm worried about is the, FSDO taking my old AW Certificate and telling me to request an inspection and new certificate after the project is finished.
Paul
2AZ1
Click to expand...

You're been reading too many internet "boogie man" stories. Changing the AW certificate along with the registration number is a routine event. Have all your stuff together and it's an in and out procedure.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
You're been reading too many internet "boogie man" stories. Changing the AW certificate along with the registration number is a routine event. Have all your stuff together and it's an in and out procedure.
Click to expand...

Sure. But once again, DRIVE to the FSDO and don't have any other FAA docs with you. :rofl:
 
mikea said:
Sure. But once again, DRIVE to the FSDO and don't have any other FAA docs with you. :rofl:
Click to expand...

How dumb would that be?? call the guy ask what he wants to see, take that with you ,,, Daaa!
 
Tom-D said:
and your other reference there is nothing there that forbids the use of electronic mail.
Click to expand...
Just how do you email the old and new AWC's back and forth? Also, there are issues other than the height of the letters/numbers which bear on their legal application.
 
Ron Levy said:
Just how do you email the old and new AWC's back and forth?
Click to expand...

Easy it is called "PRINT"

Ron Levy said:
there are issues other than the height of the letters/numbers which bear on their legal application.
Click to expand...

Yep there is, it's FAR 45. and they expect you to be in compliance.
you must make application in the manor required by the Admin, there is nothing saying that it must be by snail mail.
 
Ron Levy said:
Please point to the FAR authorizing the use of a copy rather than the signed original AWC to meet the requirement of 91.203(a)(1).
Click to expand...

I don't believe there is such a far, but the ice was broken last year at OSH flying when the FAA E-mailed a AWC to the owner and as long as he carried it aboard he was legal.

So say the FAA. some times you don't need a FAR to comply with.

91.203 only says you'll have one and be able to display it.. electronic works ..
 
Tom-D said:
I don't believe there is such a far, but the ice was broken last year at OSH flying when the FAA E-mailed a AWC to the owner and as long as he carried it aboard he was legal.

So say the FAA. some times you don't need a FAR to comply with.

91.203 only says you'll have one and be able to display it.. electronic works ..
Click to expand...
Been down that road with the FAA before. registration and AWC must be original. Only way to use a copy is by special permission -- been there, done that, with a client who left it home. Local FSDO ok'd using a faxed copy until Fedex got the original to us.
 
Ron Levy said:
Been down that road with the FAA before. registration and AWC must be original. Only way to use a copy is by special permission -- been there, done that, with a client who left it home. Local FSDO ok'd using a faxed copy until Fedex got the original to us.
Click to expand...
So a electronic transmittal thru a fax is different than a electronic transmittal thru a computer .

But actually you are comparing apples to oranges you were simply getting a lost AWC, the OP wants to change the N number on the Certificate. which is simply they tell you to destroy the old one they send you a temp just like they did with your student. you get the real one in the mail.

it all can be completed by E-Mail or a phone and fax it makes no difference.
 
If necessary to maintain consistency between airplane and paperwork, paint the new number on the airplane and cover it with a decal (Fast Signs sells them at reasonable price) with the old number. When the paperwork is completed, tear off the decal. It's common practice in prebuy for ownership changes and exports.
 
Tom-D said:
So a electronic transmittal thru a fax is different than a electronic transmittal thru a computer .
Click to expand...
Didn't say that. What I said is that the FSDO told us that without their special permission, anything other than the actual physically signed with pen and ink original wasn't valid. If the FAA is now issuing electronically signed originals, it's the first I've heard of it, and I've neither seen nor been able to find any documentation to support such a procedure. Can you point me to the FAA Order or AC authorizing that?
 
flight2000 said:
Might be. The Kansas City FSDO had me schedule an appointment to come in with my old AWC and paperwork authorizing the change. Took ten minutes and I walked out with a brand new one. The old one was shredded according to the guy that did mine.
Brian
Click to expand...

And that won't happen here, CVG FSDO can't destroy any paperwork what so ever according to my PMI
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top