[N/A] Painting the Cobra Frame

[Ted]

Factory Five has options for powder coating the frame (black) or having it bare so you can paint it. I opted for bare because I'd read some reports of issues with the powder coat flaking off. Maybe that was just bad quality control at a period of time or some extenuating circumstances. I've seen that happen with metal before, though, so painting made sense. Plus, we want to paint the frame red, and with the FF powdercoating, black is the only option.

So, I want to paint the frame. We were thinking about IH/Farmall red since we like the color and we like our Farmall, although nothing's been confirmed at this point.

So for those of you've painted something similar, what sort of paint would you recommend and what's held up for you?

 

[mscard88]

I'd use water-based paint in case you want to change colors...hey ya might tire of red.

 

[Ted]

I'd use water-based paint in case you want to change colors...hey ya might tire of red.

I do change my mind often...

 

[Matthew]

I work with a guy that does some custom paint work on motorcycles on the side, I'll ask him what he uses, but I think he's more into the airbrush/clearcoat kind of things vs frames. All I know about vehicle paint is that it seems like it costs about as much per ounce as gold.

 

[jesse]

I would use a farm/equipment enamel that will conveniently come in Farmall red. Available at your local Tractor Supply. Perfect for a frame IMO.

 

[AggieMike88]

Powdercoat does come in other colors. And the right shop can do a job that will be extremely durable.

 

[steingar]

I'd rather have someone else do it. Painting cars and metal stuff is a bit of an art. I don't see the need to make the learning curve that much more steep. Then again, if you've painted before and are familiar with the issues have at it. The fact that you don't know what paint to use does somewhat suggest otherwise.

Either way, good luck. I'm certain you'll enjoy the build and wind up with something spectacular.

 

[mondtster]

Personally, I would have had it coated at the factory. If not, I'd get it coated asap. It's gonna rust otherwise, and you're going to have to deal with that.

Red powdercoat is an option if that is what you want. I'd powdercoat rather than paint for long term durability reasons.

 

[jesse]

Personally, I would have had it coated at the factory. If not, I'd get it coated asap. It's gonna rust otherwise, and you're going to have to deal with that.

Red powdercoat is an option if that is what you want. I'd powdercoat rather than paint for long term durability reasons.

If a tractor can sit outside in his Kansas driveway and operate for 50 years with tractor paint...something tells me the cobra which would be cared for 1000X better than the tractors...and would never be covered in salt..would do just fine with paint.

How many OEM vehicles have powder coated frames? lol...

 

[mondtster]

If a tractor can sit outside in his Kansas driveway and operate for 50 years with tractor paint...something tells me the cobra which would be cared for 1000X better than the tractors...and would never be covered in salt..would do just fine with paint.

How many OEM vehicles have powder coated frames? lol...

Powder coating is generally more scratch resistant than painting, but that isn’t my concern.

Unless you electrostatically paint the frame I doubt you’re going to get the same level of coverage with paint as you will with powder coat. Durability of the finish while building the car and overall coverage would be my reasons for wanting to powder coat.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

If a tractor can sit outside in his Kansas driveway and operate for 50 years with tractor paint...something tells me the cobra which would be cared for 1000X better than the tractors...and would never be covered in salt..would do just fine with paint.

How many OEM vehicles have powder coated frames? lol...

I had a Massey 135, 1966ish, that by all evidence had the factory paint on the factory tins. Wasn't pretty, but it was still red and grey 50+ years later.

That concession made, I'd have it professionally powder coated because all of my home painting endeavors have not held up near as well as the few items I've had powder coated over the years. That includes using tractor enamel.

My assumption is that I've missed something in the prep, but I try pretty hard to get to clean, bare metal every time.

 

[mondtster]

I had a Massey 135, 1966ish, that by all evidence had the factory paint on the factory tins. Wasn't pretty, but it was still red and grey 50+ years later.

That concession made, I'd have it professionally powder coated because all of my home painting endeavors have not held up near as well as the few items I've had powder coated over the years. That includes using tractor enamel.

My assumption is that I've missed something in the prep, but I try pretty hard to get to clean, bare metal every time.

You may not be missing anything, at least nothing major. Have a look at other, more "professionally" painted things and see what they look like after a few years. Things like upfitter truck boxes, bumpers, etc. all seem to use a similar paint process and are usually orange with rust and scale in a very short period of time.

Tractor paint is usually fairly cheap and will look ok to start with but shines like a dirt floor after a few years. Not something I'd want on a fancy homebuilt car. Then again, maybe Ted doesn't care and won't own the car long enough to care anyway.

 

[skier]

Painting metal isn't for the faint-hearted. I don't know the specifics for steel (is the factory five frame steel?). But for aluminum you're looking at acid etch, alodine (chromate surface conversion), priming, and then painting. Alodine is a chromate and as such is fairly harmful to humans, but it can be brush-applied. Both priming and painting also use chemicals that are hazardous to human health that you don't want to breathe. Most of what I've read suggest that basic face masks aren't good enough to protect you from those fumes and that you're best off using a supplied air respirator. Doing it yourself will probably be at least $1-2 thousand (including equipment and paint). Having a professional do the paint job is likely to be even more expensive.

In the end I'd probably just take the powder coat that the factory offers.

 

[Ted]

I would use a farm/equipment enamel that will conveniently come in Farmall red. Available at your local Tractor Supply. Perfect for a frame IMO.

That's exactly what I was looking at.

I had a Massey 135, 1966ish, that by all evidence had the factory paint on the factory tins. Wasn't pretty, but it was still red and grey 50+ years later.

That concession made, I'd have it professionally powder coated because all of my home painting endeavors have not held up near as well as the few items I've had powder coated over the years. That includes using tractor enamel.

My assumption is that I've missed something in the prep, but I try pretty hard to get to clean, bare metal every time.

See, I've largely had the opposite experience. I've seen powdercoating flake off... it seems like a lot... and then there's always rusted metal underneath it. Now I suppose if I think about that it's mostly on older cars, but I've seen it quite a bit.

I've rattle canned a lot of things, often with virtually zero prep, and had them still hold up pretty well. I've generally not had the sort of issues that many report. Now, in my earlier days of using spray paint I'd say that was different. At the same time, I don't have anything I can think of that I'm still looking at 10 years down the road.

It seems like most underbodies don't have powdercoating at all like Jesse pointed out... some kind of paint/bedliner/undercoating sort of thing is what it normally seems to be, and that stuff usually seems to hold up very well. Another friend of mine suggested that I just use bedliner on it, which doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. Made to sit out in the sun, holds up well, takes abuse/rocks/chips better than paint.

 

[bnt83]

Dad has an 8030 Allis that has sat outside for about 30 years, most of the paint on metal is almost white, especially the roof. The only bits that are still orange are fiberglass panels.

 

[hotprops]

Awlgrip urethane primer and top coat

 

[Ted]

You may not be missing anything, at least nothing major. Have a look at other, more "professionally" painted things and see what they look like after a few years. Things like upfitter truck boxes, bumpers, etc. all seem to use a similar paint process and are usually orange with rust and scale in a very short period of time.

Tractor paint is usually fairly cheap and will look ok to start with but shines like a dirt floor after a few years. Not something I'd want on a fancy homebuilt car. Then again, maybe Ted doesn't care and won't own the car long enough to care anyway.

I think the plan is to keep this for a while. So there's a good point and good value to doing it once and doing it right. My problem is I just haven't liked the results of powdercoating before. FFR only offers it in black (we're wanting red). Reports on the FFR powder coating is that it's a good value ($500) but some people report problems with the prep work. So given my bad history with powdercoating (done by pros) that makes me think I'll be disappointed with it.

With that said also, this isn't something that's a show car. It's also going to spend most of its time in a garage, so it's not going to be exposed to the elements like Jesse pointed out.

 

[GRG55]

If a tractor can sit outside in his Kansas driveway and operate for 50 years with tractor paint...something tells me the cobra which would be cared for 1000X better than the tractors...and would never be covered in salt..would do just fine with paint.

How many OEM vehicles have powder coated frames? lol...

The problem with powder coat is the first time it chips it begins to corrode and then it starts flaking off as the corrosion spreads and gets underneath it. And there is no way a steel frame isn't going to pick up some rock chips that remove the power coat in short order.

As for paint, if it isn't primered from the factory it should be sandblasted immediately before primer to make sure its a clean surface.

I run a lot of heavy mobile equipment in the USA and Canada in all sorts of weather and over all sorts of road conditions. We don't powder coat anything any more.

 

[Matthew]

I think the plan is to keep this for a while. So there's a good point and good value to doing it once and doing it right. My problem is I just haven't liked the results of powdercoating before. FFR only offers it in black (we're wanting red). Reports on the FFR powder coating is that it's a good value ($500) but some people report problems with the prep work. So given my bad history with powdercoating (done by pros) that makes me think I'll be disappointed with it.

With that said also, this isn't something that's a show car. It's also going to spend most of its time in a garage, so it's not going to be exposed to the elements like Jesse pointed out.

I'll be checking in with Jeff (you checked out his lift a few months ago) in a couple weeks. I know he doesn't do his own paint or powder coating, so I can ask which shops he sends parts to.

Any body paint and design ideas yet?

 

[James331]

I’d go POR15, pick a color they won’t mask cracks.

Also if you can I’d look into spraying inside the frame with hot linseed oil or something if possible.

 

[Ted]

The problem with powder coat is the first time it chips it begins to corrode and then it starts flaking off as the corrosion spreads and gets underneath it. And there is no way a steel frame isn't going to pick up some rock chips that remove the power coat in short order.

As for paint, if it isn't primered from the factory it should be sandblasted immediately before primer to make sure its a clean surface.

I run a lot of heavy mobile equipment in the USA and Canada in all sorts of weather and over all sorts of road conditions. We don't powder coat anything any more.

Well good, you've helped me believe that I'm not crazy (or maybe we're both crazy). I thought I was the only person who'd had bad luck with powder coating. But your experience is exactly what I've seen. Gets chipped and then falls off in big sheets.

What sort of paint do you all use?

I'll be checking in with Jeff (you checked out his lift a few months ago) in a couple weeks. I know he doesn't do his own paint or powder coating, so I can ask which shops he sends parts to.

Any body paint and design ideas yet?

We're a ways off from that. We do figure that we'll have a racing stripe of some sort. Laurie's favorite color for the car is black. Right now we're planning on painting the frame International Harvester/Farmall Red. So what could be fun might be black with IH Red racing stripe, then the racing stripe would match the frame.

 

[kyleb]

I've painted cars, airplanes, and stuff. I'd go with an epoxy primer over properly cleaned steel, topcoated with acrylic urethane or polyurethane.

I'd either use the Kirker brand products or the appropriate products from Summit racing (which may or may not be re-branded Kirker paints). All of those come in stock colors and the pricing is far better than what you'll find on name brand paints at the local paint jobber. As far as I can tell, the performance is the same. Yes, you'll need to wear appropriate PPE, but for a frame, you can paint the thing outside under a tarp if you want to manage (not eliminate) bugs and dust.

And I don't like powder coat. It is brittle and cracks.

 

[GRG55]

Well good, you've helped me believe that I'm not crazy (or maybe we're both crazy). I thought I was the only person who'd had bad luck with powder coating. But your experience is exactly what I've seen. Gets chipped and then falls off in big sheets.

What sort of paint do you all use?

...

I'm not sure what we use will work in your instance because of the red color you are preferring.

We use Eastwood POR 15, but their prep and application sequence process is critical or it won't perform. Do it right and we have found it to be an excellent product for our trailer frames and other equipment. We do not cover rust, it's always applied over fresh sandblast (we won't leave the bare steel overnight). Everything we do with POR 15 is gloss black, and I don't know if there is much of a range of top coat colors, which is why it may not be the right product in your application Ted.

For our corporate brand colors we are moving more to vinyl wrap instead of paint.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

POR15

 

[Matthew]

We're a ways off from that. We do figure that we'll have a racing stripe of some sort. Laurie's favorite color for the car is black. Right now we're planning on painting the frame International Harvester/Farmall Red. So what could be fun might be black with IH Red racing stripe, then the racing stripe would match the frame.

How about an understated Realtree vinyl wrap?

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Clean it, prime it, shoot it with farm store red or even rustoleum will look good if you can find the right color. Use an HVLP gun, thin it 50% with reducer and go to town. Put on a couple-three coats. Don't forget the hardener. It's the frame people, not the panels. Won't even be exposed much to sunlight.

 

[Ted]

Clean it, prime it, shoot it with farm store red or even rustoleum will look good if you can find the right color. Use an HVLP gun, thin it 50% with reducer and go to town. Put on a couple-three coats. Don't forget the hardener. It's the frame people, not the panels. Won't even be exposed much to sunlight.

You'd be surprised at the response I've gotten on the Factory Five forum. You'd think that it's heretical to do anything other than powder coating.

In this case, the farm store red is either Rustoleum or "Majic". The Rustoleum product seems to be preferable.

 

[Matthew]

I always liked the "Highland Green" on the Bullitt Mustang.

A red frame underneath that would look good.

 

[GRG55]

You'd be surprised at the response I've gotten on the Factory Five forum. You'd think that it's heretical to do anything other than powder coating...

LOL. Do they drive their cars? Or just trailer them in and park them over a mirror at the Concours show?

 

[James_Dean]

They need to be driven.

 

[Ted]

LOL. Do they drive their cars? Or just trailer them in and park them over a mirror at the Concours show?

From what I can tell most of them aren’t driven much (at least not by the ones with unhelpful comments) and many do treat them as show cars.

Me, I do want it looking reasonably nice, but I also want a car to drive.

 

[Arrow115]

Ted, I went through this when I bought a new frame for my CJ7 build. It came in bare metal and I elected to paint it using POR15. The POR 15 is a good product. It looks good and it is tough. A word of caution, it is nasty stuff. Get a good respirator, follow the instructions exactly and dont get any of it on your skin. Looking back, I would powder coat, it would have saved me time and money. But if you do want to paint it yourself POR 15 is tough stuff.

I am doing the body work and soon the paint on my CJ7 so ask me in a couple months about painting a car body yourself. I suspect I will be saying find a good body shop. Good luck with your Cobra build. These posts got me looking at the kit for when I finish my CJ7.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Ask away. I've done several. 99% of it is in the prep, shooting is easy. The best advice? Buy good paint, single stage or base/clear. It's too much work to have the clear fail on you in ten years because you cheaped out. Learned the hard way UV is tough on clear coat.

 

[Ted]

They need to be driven.
View attachment 65793

We really need the ability to hit "like" multiple times on this forum.

 

[Ted]

Ted, I went through this when I bought a new frame for my CJ7 build. It came in bare metal and I elected to paint it using POR15. The POR 15 is a good product. It looks good and it is tough. A word of caution, it is nasty stuff. Get a good respirator, follow the instructions exactly and dont get any of it on your skin. Looking back, I would powder coat, it would have saved me time and money. But if you do want to paint it yourself POR 15 is tough stuff.

I am doing the body work and soon the paint on my CJ7 so ask me in a couple months about painting a car body yourself. I suspect I will be saying find a good body shop. Good luck with your Cobra build. These posts got me looking at the kit for when I finish my CJ7.

The problem with POR 15 in my case is that it's only in black. I've used it before and been happy with the results.

I think @Chip Sylverne 's advice is what I'll go with.

I always liked the "Highland Green" on the Bullitt Mustang.

A red frame underneath that would look good.

You know, that would look really good and give it a nice contrast vs. the black that is normally found on these cars. That's worth considering.

We're thinking the Farmall/IH Red for the frame and the racing stripe. And that would also go well with that green, without it looking too much like it's "Christmas colors."

 

[FormerHangie]

I always liked the "Highland Green" on the Bullitt Mustang.

A red frame underneath that would look good.

That's pretty neat that Cooper sells a raised white letter tire named "Cobra". It seems very appropriate.

 

[Ted]

That's pretty neat that Cooper sells a raised white letter tire named "Cobra". It seems very appropriate.

I've also seen a number of people who've made their own stencils for painting "Goodyear" or the like on their tires. My problem with that is I'd expect that paint to come off easily and quickly.

 

[Matthew]

I checked with my motorcycle custom paint job buddy:

He likes PPG products for the paint.

He said, "For frames, powder coat. Anything else, PPG."

He also recommended, "Dove Gray powder coat for the frame. That way you can tell what fluid is leaking. Black hides the color. Just sayin'."

 

[SoonerAviator]

Have a local shop powder coat it. They have a ton of colors to choose from. I wouldn't do the frame in red unless it was a show car/SEMA-type thing, but that's just me. If you want some color underneath, I'd do things like sway bars/calipers/etc. for a splash of red color (or whatever the body color will be). I'd go with black or dark gray for a frame.

As for POR15, it's a great product, especially for things like Jeeps/trucks/vehicles being driven in salt-weather/salted roads. I wouldn't be using it on a Cobra that's going to be a fair-weather vehicle stored indoors. Powder coating will have a much cleaner look that slopping on POR15 all over the frame rails.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I've also seen a number of people who've made their own stencils for painting "Goodyear" or the like on their tires. My problem with that is I'd expect that paint to come off easily and quickly.

Sometimes they look good, sometimes they look silly. I'd probably pass on stickers, but you can always get a tire with raised white lettering on one side and black lettering on the other side in case you want to try it for a bit to see if you like the look. The 'Vette below looks pretty sharp with them.