*N/A* motorcycle question

[kevin47881]

Had a great day riding today. Even aced the written at the end of the day.
Tomorrow is the 'practical' which should go without a hitch even if it will be raining.

 

[kevin47881]

Successfully completed the MSF course out in the rain and wind this morning. Overall I'm glad it was raining as it provided some great real world experience in inclement conditions.

 

[DeeG]

Congrats!!!

Did my MSF test out in the rain as well. Made me less afraid to ride in the rain.

 

[vontresc]

Congrats on passing the MSF course. The bookwork was a bit lame, but there was some good info in there. Where the course really shines is in the riding portion.

Have fun picking out a bike. Let us know if you need any help in picking one out

 

[etsisk]

congrats! Have fun out there!

 

[RogerT]

Hard to go wrong, except for buying a Harley..

Oh really? When was the last time you rode one? I'm on my 5th one and the changes they made on the new Ultras were nice. Before that I had a Classic. I've never had a problem with any of them. I spend a lot of time on the highway and even managed to make it up to the Black Hills last summer.

RT

 

[steingar]

Oh really? When was the last time you rode one? I'm on my 5th one and the changes they made on the new Ultras were nice. Before that I had a Classic. I've never had a problem with any of them. I spend a lot of time on the highway and even managed to make it up to the Black Hills last summer.

RT

Must.........not...post.........Harley..jokes

 

[Turboz1r]

Kevin,
Are you in FL or Tenn? I'm in Daytona now and could meet up with you for some advice.
Let me know,
Mike G

 

[NBPD336]

Personally I love my Harley it has been really good to me for the last ten years. However I cant deny that the older ones had their problems. These days there are alot of excellent choices out there. As long as you like what you are riding that is all that matters as long as you are in the wind. A mechanic friend once said to me: "Everything has the potential to be junk, its all in how you maintain it."

 

[steingar]

...must........fight.........must.......fight.................must..............fi............


What do you call a Harley that doesn't leak oil?
Empty!


The most efficient way to convert gasoline into noise
without the adverse side effect of horsepower!


Did you know 95% of all Harleys are still on the road?
The other 5% actually made it home.


Is it true that Harleys are chick magnets?
Yes, but only if the chick has a steel plate in her head.


What's the cheapest way to get another 50hp from your Harley?
Trade it in on a Suzuki.


Why don't Harley riders sit on their bikes when the side stand is down?
They're afraid to lean over that far.


What's the difference between a Harley and a Harley owner's home?
The Harley costs more and has fewer wheels.


How do you know you're riding a Harley?
While coming off an exit-ramp you get passed by a Vespa.


Why don't Harley riders wave at sportbike riders?
Because they don't want to drop their tools.


How do you know all the aftermarket parts you bought for your Harley are worth the money?
You finally break into the 15's in the quarter mile!!!


What do you call a group of Harley Owners with a collective IQ of 120?
Sturgis!

How do Harley engineers tell if a bike is worthy of the Harley name?
They check to make sure the exhaust noise in decibels exceeds the horsepower rating.


Why don't Harley owners smile?
Once you realized you got conned into paying $25,000 for an outdated piece
of $#!+, would YOU be smiling?


What's the difference between a Harley Davidson and a vacuum cleaner?
The location of the dirtbags.


Why do Harleys have fringe?
So you can tell if they're moving.


How is a Harley Davidson like an old dog?
They both like to ride in the back of pickup trucks.


How do you know your Harley is handling great?
You can almost keep up with the logging trucks when you're riding in the canyons.


What is the difference between a Harley Davidson and an old dog?
The dog can get in the back of the pickup by itself.


Why couldn't the Harley mechanic repair the doorknob?
Some things just can't be fixed with only a hammer and a rope.


What's the difference between a Harley taken to Daytona on a trailer and one that's being ridden there?
The one on the trailer is going about 30mph faster.


Why do all Harley owners have trailers??
So they can go around corners faster!


Where can you find the world's largest collection of Harley jokes?
On the showroom of the Harley mega-store in Milwaukee.
(Alternate answer: At Sturgis)


You know you're a Harley rider if:
You're unable to let your bike simply IDLE at a stop light.


You confuse the word "character" with the more accurate term "engineering flaws".


"Water cooled" means standing on the side of the road, in the rain, waiting for a wrecker.

 

[kevin47881]

Kevin,
Are you in FL or Tenn? I'm in Daytona now and could meet up with you for some advice.
Let me know,
Mike G

I live in TN but am currently sitting in Palm Beach County so I guess both would be the correct answer

Sometime this month I'll be in St. Augustine which is just up the road a piece (as you know) and may be able to make something work.

Thank you for the offer!

 

[NBPD336]

Steingar, you forgot:
Why do Harley riders ride so slow?
To show off their tatoos.

 

[kevin47881]

On Friday I'm going to look at a 2007 Kaw Vulcan 900 LT. The bike only has a bit over 2,100 miles. Was also looking at a Yam VStar 1100 but the liquid cooling, belt drive and fuel injection pushed the Kaw over the edge. The 200 extra cc's only yields an extra 4 horsepower but no additional torque (although the Yam max torque is somewhat lower 2,500 rpm vs 3,700) so the extra cc's don't bring anything to the table as far as I can see from a performance stand point.

The guy is asking a firm $5,500 for the bike but he may talk with dead presidents on the tank. Any thoughts?

 

[Ted]

On Friday I'm going to look at a 2007 Kaw Vulcan 900 LT. The bike only has a bit over 2,100 miles. Was also looking at a Yam VStar 1100 but the liquid cooling, belt drive and fuel injection pushed the Kaw over the edge. The 200 extra cc's only yields an extra 4 horsepower but no additional torque (although the Yam max torque is somewhat lower 2,500 rpm vs 3,700) so the extra cc's don't bring anything to the table as far as I can see from a performance stand point.

The guy is asking a firm $5,500 for the bike but he may talk with dead presidents on the tank. Any thoughts?

I'd sell you my 2003 Honda VTX 1800 (liquid cooling, shaft drive, fuel injection, Honda reliability) for the same price, and believe me, the displacement makes a difference there.

PM me if interested...

 

[RogerT]

...must........fight.........must.......fight.................must..............fi............


What do you call a Harley that doesn't leak oil?
Empty!


The most efficient way to convert gasoline into noise
without the adverse side effect of horsepower!


Did you know 95% of all Harleys are still on the road?
The other 5% actually made it home.


Is it true that Harleys are chick magnets?
Yes, but only if the chick has a steel plate in her head.


What's the cheapest way to get another 50hp from your Harley?
Trade it in on a Suzuki.


Why don't Harley riders sit on their bikes when the side stand is down?
They're afraid to lean over that far.


What's the difference between a Harley and a Harley owner's home?
The Harley costs more and has fewer wheels.


How do you know you're riding a Harley?
While coming off an exit-ramp you get passed by a Vespa.


Why don't Harley riders wave at sportbike riders?
Because they don't want to drop their tools.


How do you know all the aftermarket parts you bought for your Harley are worth the money?
You finally break into the 15's in the quarter mile!!!


What do you call a group of Harley Owners with a collective IQ of 120?
Sturgis!

How do Harley engineers tell if a bike is worthy of the Harley name?
They check to make sure the exhaust noise in decibels exceeds the horsepower rating.


Why don't Harley owners smile?
Once you realized you got conned into paying $25,000 for an outdated piece
of $#!+, would YOU be smiling?


What's the difference between a Harley Davidson and a vacuum cleaner?
The location of the dirtbags.


Why do Harleys have fringe?
So you can tell if they're moving.


How is a Harley Davidson like an old dog?
They both like to ride in the back of pickup trucks.


How do you know your Harley is handling great?
You can almost keep up with the logging trucks when you're riding in the canyons.


What is the difference between a Harley Davidson and an old dog?
The dog can get in the back of the pickup by itself.


Why couldn't the Harley mechanic repair the doorknob?
Some things just can't be fixed with only a hammer and a rope.


What's the difference between a Harley taken to Daytona on a trailer and one that's being ridden there?
The one on the trailer is going about 30mph faster.


Why do all Harley owners have trailers??
So they can go around corners faster!


Where can you find the world's largest collection of Harley jokes?
On the showroom of the Harley mega-store in Milwaukee.
(Alternate answer: At Sturgis)


You know you're a Harley rider if:
You're unable to let your bike simply IDLE at a stop light.


You confuse the word "character" with the more accurate term "engineering flaws".


"Water cooled" means standing on the side of the road, in the rain, waiting for a wrecker.

Is this just meant to antagonize me?

I guess I've probably had enough of *******s like you.

 

[steingar]

Steingar, you forgot:
Why do Harley riders ride so slow?
To show off their tatoos.

And here I thought it was so they could turn around and ***** slap their wimmin'.

 

[TMetzinger]

Is this just meant to antagonize me?

I guess I've probably had enough of *******s like you.

No, it was meant to be funny. And it succeeded. We could put up cessna jokes, or rotary wing jokes, etc.

Pretty much all humor is hurtful to someone (the butt of the joke). When the humor is directed at a large group of people, one shouldn't take it personally.

It's like the joke about telling a pilot by his big watch... only half of it applies to me so I don't get upset about the other half.

 

[NBPD336]

I have had my 1987 FXR for over ten years now. I have owned Kawasakis, Suzukis, Yamahas, etc. They all get out in the wind. It is only a matter of opinion as to which is better than the other. While my Harley is my favorite bike I have owned. I am not so attached to a name brand that I cannot poke fun at it though. Oh and Steingar, Have you seen some of those "wimmin" on the back seats of Harleys? I dont think I would want to mess with them lol.

 

[steingar]

Truthfully, I haven't ridden Harleys, but I have picked them up and sat on them. All I can say is OMG they're HEAVY. Given the displacement and power they can't possibly keep up with their Japanese and European brethren. And sorry guys, performance is all I care about. You all can keep the whole "style" thing, it doesn't matter to me at all. I don't care that much how much chrome hangs off a bike, or what it sounds like. I care how maneuverable it is, how fast it is, how well it brakes and how well it rides. Those are the things that have saved and will save my over-sized pale hairy keister.

 

[NBPD336]

Like I say I am not a Harley salesman, as long as you a riding something that is all that counts as far as I am concerned. I have been on some sort of bike since I was three years old and I can imagine not riding.

 

[etsisk]

Truthfully, I haven't ridden Harleys, but I have picked them up and sat on them. All I can say is OMG they're HEAVY. Given the displacement and power they can't possibly keep up with their Japanese and European brethren. And sorry guys, performance is all I care about. You all can keep the whole "style" thing, it doesn't matter to me at all. I don't care that much how much chrome hangs off a bike, or what it sounds like. I care how maneuverable it is, how fast it is, how well it brakes and how well it rides. Those are the things that have saved and will save my over-sized pale hairy keister.

You do make it sound as if you've unfortunately narrowed the range of what could be acceptable to you - there's a lot more to motorcycling than just performance. I've never worried about whether the braking or acceleration or handling were sufficient on a harley to save my butt - it wasn't a problem. I do wonder about the process you used to come to your conclusions, what with never having actually ridden a harley...

Of the 500K miles I have on bikes, probably 350K miles were on Harleys - I've ridden cross country (really cross country) on everything from Hondas to BMWs to Harleys and the Harley experience is without question preferable to me - it's a completely different experience, the ride, the interactions with the drivers around you, with the people where you stop for gas or food - I never got anything like that on a Honda or a Beemer. Admittedly, the BMW was a better bike, performance wise, no question. But it was like riding a sewing machine across the country - no heart.

 

[Ted]

I was having this conversation earlier with some guys here at the office. One was saying the same thing about not understanding why you'd want a Harley because of the performance. He also didn't see why anyone would ever ride a motorcycle on a trip. He didn't seem to want to get that there are different kinds of riding. Depending on what you do, you have different bikes that work well.

I bought an RC51 that I'm getting in a few weeks once it gets shipped up from Texas. I'd fly down and ride it home, but an RC51 is not a bike for that, it's a bike for riding on twisty roads for shorter periods of time... which is exactly why I bought it. I'm also selling my VTX which is a great highway bike, but I'm selling it because if I want to go on a long highway trip, I want a Harley full dresser. There is something different, and the saying of "If I have to explain you wouldn't understand" is completely true (much like with flying, although we don't use that phrase). However since I don't do long trips on motorcycles much anymore (like at all), it'll probably be a while before I buy another.

As to the weight... yes, they are heavy, but a lot of that weight is down low making for a very nice center of gravity. The bikes are surprisingly easy to ride. First Harley I rode was a Road King. I was intimidated by the weight having come from a KZ700, but the guy threw me the keys and said go ride it, I'd do fine. It was actually easier to ride than the KZ700, which had overhead cams and a high-mounted gas tank with lots of other weight up high. I then understood.

 

[vontresc]

But it was like riding a sewing machine across the country - no heart.

Hey I enjoy riding my sewing machine! And even Tom has to agree that riding half of an A-65 is appealing to a pilot . I was tempted to upgrade my trusty R65 the other week when I saw a really nice Daytona Orange smoke R90S at the local beemer dealer. The price was pretty decent, too.

 

[steingar]

You do make it sound as if you've unfortunately narrowed the range of what could be acceptable to you - there's a lot more to motorcycling than just performance. I've never worried about whether the braking or acceleration or handling were sufficient on a harley to save my butt - it wasn't a problem. I do wonder about the process you used to come to your conclusions, what with never having actually ridden a harley...

Having judged the weight based on my perceptions and Harley's own data I can tell they are quite a bit heavier (the number 30% sticks in my mind, though I can't back it up) than bikes of the same function from other manufacturers. Since Harley engines make less power/displacement than almost any other manufacturer (and again according to Harley's own data) they can't possibly accelerate or maneuver as well (F=MA and all that). Moreover, their brakes are no better than anyone else's, therefore more weight with the same braking power means poorer braking. Since I've used a combination of acceleration, maneuverability, and braking to keep out of collisions for the last few decades I think they're pretty darned important.

Of the 500K miles I have on bikes, probably 350K miles were on Harleys - I've ridden cross country (really cross country) on everything from Hondas to BMWs to Harleys and the Harley experience is without question preferable to me - it's a completely different experience, the ride, the interactions with the drivers around you, with the people where you stop for gas or food - I never got anything like that on a Honda or a Beemer. Admittedly, the BMW was a better bike, performance wise, no question. But it was like riding a sewing machine across the country - no heart.

If someone has a better or worse opinion of me because of the label on my bike then I truly don't care what they think.

 

[steingar]

I bought an RC51 that I'm getting in a few weeks once it gets shipped up from Texas.

My hero. I was thinking about an RC51 when I was sport bike shopping. Nice bikes.

 

[Troska]

<snip>
I bought an RC51 that I'm getting in a few weeks once it gets shipped up from Texas. I'd fly down and ride it home, <snip>

You dog. I've got some butt time on an RC-51 and I loved it. If'n I would wear out my ZX-11, I'd be searching out an RC-51.

RE: Harley's - I've never owned, but I've ridden plenty of friends. Guess what - they are fun, comfortable bikes. I don't understand anyone's bias, it is just like airplanes - every hangar should have a cross country plane, an aerobatic fun plane, and something for low and slow summer evenings. Same thing with bikes.

Tim

 

[Ted]

You dog. I've got some butt time on an RC-51 and I loved it. If'n I would wear out my ZX-11, I'd be searching out an RC-51.

I haven't ridden one yet, but I am a big fan of V-twin sport bikes. A friend of mine has a TL1000R that he's let me ride a few times, and was that thing ever fun. I used to have a Bandit 1200S that was a lot of fun ('97 model, so a few years older than Jesse's), but the liter V-twins are just way moreso.

Since I love Honda motorcycles (owned two) and V-twin sport bikes, so I figure the RC51 seemed like a good option. We'll see what I think of it when I get it. I'm getting new tires and a new chain put on it down there before it gets shipped up here, and then figure out what else I want to do to it. I'm guessing Yoshi exhaust and new plastic.

 

[etsisk]

Having judged the weight based on my perceptions and Harley's own data I can tell they are quite a bit heavier (the number 30% sticks in my mind, though I can't back it up) than bikes of the same function from other manufacturers. Since Harley engines make less power/displacement than almost any other manufacturer (and again according to Harley's own data) they can't possibly accelerate or maneuver as well (F=MA and all that). Moreover, their brakes are no better than anyone else's, therefore more weight with the same braking power means poorer braking. Since I've used a combination of acceleration, maneuverability, and braking to keep out of collisions for the last few decades I think they're pretty darned important.

When I was doing a lot of riding, I could do fork-lock, tight turns on a harley at 2 or 3 miles an hour, slow walking speed. Every cop that rides one has to be able to do that, so it's not just me. I couldn't do that sort of turn on a sport bike. My point being, there's more to it than just the numbers on a scale - it's how the weight is distributed and how it shows itself in the riding experience. As for braking, etc, it's not whether it can brake better or worse than something else, but rather is its braking sufficient unto the day. I've never had a problem that required braking that it didn't brake well enough for the job.

If someone has a better or worse opinion of me because of the label on my bike then I truly don't care what they think.

Where did THAT come from, man? I didn't say anything about you, your opinion OR the label on your bike.

EDIT: if you're talking about how people react to you on the road, well, whatever - I'm just talking about what my own experience has been, for hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

[Troska]

I've been on both, not for long periods, but enough to form an opinion. The TLR felt sloppy and loose in the corners compared to the RC-51. The RC-51 turned with less effort, and held the angle without drama. I felt part of the bike on the RC-51 - like it was solid. I just never got comfortable on the TLR even though it was fairly new, it felt "loose".

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a Honda fan, and probably had some bias.

Tim

I haven't ridden one yet, but I am a big fan of V-twin sport bikes. A friend of mine has a TL1000R that he's let me ride a few times, and was that thing ever fun. I used to have a Bandit 1200S that was a lot of fun ('97 model, so a few years older than Jesse's), but the liter V-twins are just way moreso.

Since I love Honda motorcycles (owned two) and V-twin sport bikes, so I figure the RC51 seemed like a good option. We'll see what I think of it when I get it. I'm getting new tires and a new chain put on it down there before it gets shipped up here, and then figure out what else I want to do to it. I'm guessing Yoshi exhaust and new plastic.

 

[steingar]

When I was doing a lot of riding, I could do fork-lock, tight turns on a harley at 2 or 3 miles an hour, slow walking speed. Every cop that rides one has to be able to do that, so it's not just me. I couldn't do that sort of turn on a sport bike. My point being, there's more to it than just the numbers on a scale - it's how the weight is distributed and how it shows itself in the riding experience. As for braking, etc, it's not whether it can brake better or worse than something else, but rather is its braking sufficient unto the day. I've never had a problem that required braking that it didn't brake well enough for the job.

Any bike can do turns at 2mph. I'm more interested what it does at 70, which is the speed at which I'm going when I escape the cager who has looked right through me an kept going into me. And I've had to use full braking on the sportbike to stay out of dutch, which is well beyond just about any other bike.

Where did THAT come from, man? I didn't say anything about you, your opinion OR the label on your bike. :confused

EDIT: if you're talking about how people react to you on the road, well, whatever - I'm just talking about what my own experience has been, for hundreds of thousands of miles.

Yes, I am describing how cagers and their familiars react, which is what I thought you were discussing. My apologies if I misinterpreted. It is not such a big deal anymore, like Ted I don't do big bike trips anymore, I do big airplane trips.

 

[Ted]

I understand your sentiments on Hondas, and have found similar characteristics on other Honda motorcycles. One day I was at a BMW dealer and test rode a brand new R1200S with 0 miles on it. The shifting felt sloppy, steering felt sloppy, and I just didn't like how the bike rode. I test rode a VFR800i Interceptor that had just been traded in with around 32,000 miles on it, and felt like I was part of the bike. It did everything I wanted it to and did it wonderfully. I bought the Honda.

Same with the VTX. I test rode a Yamaha Stratoliner with 0 miles on it. Sloppy handling (unsafe above 70 mph as it had major steering wobble), just low quality. Rode the VTX, it felt like Honda took a cruiser and sent it to their sportbike division for a warmover before letting it out the door. But... it just isn't a Harley, it's pretending to be.

Given your comments, I'm really looking forward to the RC51. The way one of my friends put it was Honda went out to build a better Ducati (after the RC30 was no longer competitive in its class), and did.

I've been on both, not for long periods, but enough to form an opinion. The TLR felt sloppy and loose in the corners compared to the RC-51. The RC-51 turned with less effort, and held the angle without drama. I felt part of the bike on the RC-51 - like it was solid. I just never got comfortable on the TLR even though it was fairly new, it felt "loose".

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a Honda fan, and probably had some bias.

Tim

 

[NBPD336]

One of the best bikes I ever owned was a 1986 Honda Night Hawk:

one of the smoothest bikes I ever rode.

 

[steingar]

I've always had a sweet spot for the 700S. To this day I think it is one of the prettiest bikes Honda has made.

 

[NBPD336]

I sold mine in 1996 when I got my CDL and started driving cross country. I really miss that bike. I figure one of these days I will pick up another one. All this talk about motorcycles is starting to depress me. Its raining like mad here and also even if it wasnt there is still too much sand on the roads for me to take my bike out.

 

[steingar]

I started riding the Goldwing (speaking of slow, piggy bikes) in at the beginning of March. So far Spring has been glorious here.

 

[jesse]

One of the best bikes I ever owned was a 1986 Honda Night Hawk:

one of the smoothest bikes I ever rode.

I owned one and rode the hell out of it. I did a two thousand plus mile motorcycle trip on it that was mostly non-stop riding over a weekend. It was a fun motorcycle.

The write-up of the trip:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8313

The gear I had:

It was a sad day when the motor failed on it though (pretty much locked up).

 

[jesse]

I've rode several Harley's from the smaller ones to the big boys brand new and older. They certainly do seem to be a motorcycle that rides but I don't consider them that much fun. To me, they feel like they have no soul, because to me soul equals performance.

To each their own though

 

[etsisk]

Any bike can do turns at 2mph. I'm more interested what it does at 70, which is the speed at which I'm going when I escape the cager who has looked right through me an kept going into me. And I've had to use full braking on the sportbike to stay out of dutch, which is well beyond just about any other bike.

I've had no problem evading crap at 70 mph, though one lefty-turner did, indeed, get me - though I got all the bike around her except for the right engine guard, which hooked her dadgum bumper... sigh. But I don't see that as the bike's fault - it was her's and, to a lesser degree, mine. Some things you just are gonna hit.

Yes, I am describing how cagers and their familiars react, which is what I thought you were discussing. My apologies if I misinterpreted. It is not such a big deal anymore, like Ted I don't do big bike trips anymore, I do big airplane trips.

No problem - I was the one that misinterpreted what you were saying. The "edit" was when I finally got it!

 

[etsisk]

I started riding the Goldwing (speaking of slow, piggy bikes) in at the beginning of March. So far Spring has been glorious here.

Some friends of mine ride the bmw LT's (I think that stands for Light Truck) and they ride the absolute hell out of 'em - leaving their sport bike friends in the dust! The only time I rode a goldwing was to ride it out of a ditch for a guy and his wife who were only able to ride it INTO the ditch. That was the same trip I saw a goldwing with a canvas awning/top on it - striped with fringe on the front and rear!

There was a year or two that every time I rode out of state on my Honda Sabre, it seemed like it rained on me for the whole trip. And I kept seeing the wingers on the other side of the highway - they looked like they were soooo much happier. And drier.

 

[etsisk]

To each their own though

Ain't that the everlovin' truth!