My first frustrating session

mulligan

mulligan

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Mulligan
Well I had my first frustrating session. Everything has been going very well. Worked on patterns and landings today and it was awful. I feel like I kept getting mixed messages and just really don't have this thing down yet.

Your a little low followed by keep your nose down. Which one is it, gain altitude or keep nose low?

Center yourself to runway add left aileron but my sight picture had me believe I was left of the runway.

I kept asking for speeds and altitudes on the downwind, base and final and kept getting numbers are for IFR this is just a feel kind of thing. Look at the windshield is all you have to do.

I understand what she is trying to get me to do, my brain just isn't registering with what she is saying vs what I think needs to be done. At the end of the day she is the instructor and is correct, I am just getting very frustrated because I can't get my brain to put it all together.

On top of it we had a sticky flap switch which would make the flaps go all the way down unless you moved it back up, unbalanced fuel tanks 19 in right and 13 in left to start the day and gusty conditions.

Wow am I discouraged. But I know it is ok to have bad days and I'll get back at it again next week. Just though I would share for others who have bad days so we all know it's normal!!
 
mulligan said:
Your a little low followed by keep your nose down. Which one is it, gain altitude or keep nose low?
Click to expand...

False choice; do both. Throttle for vertical speed, pitch for airspeed.
 
GeorgeC said:
False choice; do both. Throttle for vertical speed, pitch for airspeed.
Click to expand...


I understand this on the ground, my point is that when doing it for real my brain is telling me otherwise. Just have to get it down a few times for it to "click"
 
It gets better with practice, just some of the highs and lows of flight training.
 
Don't get frustrated. All those things are relatively minor, and in a lesson or two more, they will roll off you like water on a duck's back.

The imbalance of fuel is only 6 gallons, not much weight. (remember how much fuel weighs?) That isn't affecting anything.

Flap switch should be fixed by your next lesson, but, it was just a minor issue.

Hang in there, listen to your instructor, and it will start coming together that you develop the muscle memory to do two activities at the same time to get the sight picture and result you need.
 
Flight training is about repetition. Keep doing it and it will click one day.

You should have specific speeds on downwind, base, and final. You can't do it by feel, especially as a student.
In a Piper Cherokee, it's 80 downwind, 70 base, and 65 final (touchdown will be at about 60).

Don't get discouraged. You will have days when you want to quit, but don't. The day you get that certificate, you will know it was worth it.
 
You're going to have those bad days after you get your certificate, too.
 
Meh, go get a beer and relax.

On your next flight do some air work first before you hop into the pattern work.

I wouldn't worry about it.
 
mulligan said:
I kept asking for speeds and altitudes on the downwind, base and final and kept getting numbers are for IFR this is just a feel kind of thing. Look at the windshield is all you have to do.

Wow am I discouraged. But I know it is ok to have bad days and I'll get back at it again next week. Just though I would share for others who have bad days so we all know it's normal!!
Click to expand...

Don't worry about speed until abeam the numbers for throttle reduction (green arc on downwind). At abeam the numbers 1700 RPM in most Cessna 152-172's works, if it's a "slippery" plane like my Tiger, 1500 is perfect. My instructor taught landing by RPM and ONE glance only on final for approach speed confirmation (he later would placard ASI using RPM only - helps if you lose your ASI). Good luck, it gets easier ... then perfect ... then post PPL you'll have landings occasionally WAY worse than PPL:lol:
 
I had my first frustrating lesson this week as well. The whole morning was just completely off. The good news is that on my next lesson (today), it was the complete opposite. The things I struggled with on the previous lesson, I nailed down on this one. I went from having very little confidence in landing to having almost full confidence in landing. So, try not to get discouraged. Your next lesson will be better!
 
If you still have trouble with your brain and the pitch for speed, throttle for altitude, ask your CFI to take you out of the pattern and let you get a feel for it. The great thing about it is you can set up directly into the wind so you don't have to worry about lateral guidance. Pick out a group of trees, buildings, whatever from 2000' use those as an aiming point like you would for a runway and work through the pitch/power thing until you get a grasp on it. Then apply it to the runway environment.
 
mulligan said:
Well I had my first frustrating session. Everything has been going very well. Worked on patterns and landings today and it was awful. I feel like I kept getting mixed messages and just really don't have this thing down yet.

Your a little low followed by keep your nose down. Which one is it, gain altitude or keep nose low?

Center yourself to runway add left aileron but my sight picture had me believe I was left of the runway.

I kept asking for speeds and altitudes on the downwind, base and final and kept getting numbers are for IFR this is just a feel kind of thing. Look at the windshield is all you have to do.

I understand what she is trying to get me to do, my brain just isn't registering with what she is saying vs what I think needs to be done. At the end of the day she is the instructor and is correct, I am just getting very frustrated because I can't get my brain to put it all together.

On top of it we had a sticky flap switch which would make the flaps go all the way down unless you moved it back up, unbalanced fuel tanks 19 in right and 13 in left to start the day and gusty conditions.

Wow am I discouraged. But I know it is ok to have bad days and I'll get back at it again next week. Just though I would share for others who have bad days so we all know it's normal!!
Click to expand...


This is where you lack understanding, pitch controls airspeed, power controls descent. If you are getting low, you add throttle, not pull the nose up. Next time trim for your airspeed on final, 1.3Vso as calculated from stall practice, then adjust your glide path with the throttle to stabilize the aim point in the windshield. If it creeps up, add throttle, if it moves down, reduce it.
 
Seems like a normal part of training. You'll get it, don't worry.
 
Trim Trim Trim.

It helps with the "pitch for airspeed" equation and keeps you from over correcting with the yoke.

It's all practice practice practice. You know you're doing it right when you can go from long to short final with your hands off the yoke and throttle and it feels like you're on the perfect escalator ride.

Search for and read up on and find videos for "Stabilized Approaches". A good landing always starts with a good approach.
 
Just your first frustrating session? Be prepared because there will be more to come. If it was easy then everyone would have their PPL. Persistence, practice, and patience will pay off.
 
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Seriously tho frustrating days happen and eventually they become fewer. Eventually you'll be all perfect like me. :D

If it makes you feel better, I've been bouncing my landings lately. I needs to go practice to too.
 
Bet your next lesson goes awesome and you will feel on top of the world.
 
Sounds completely normal to me. Could even be a small learning plateau. It happens. You will break through it.

Remember to have fun and you are workign toward a goal.

David
 
mulligan said:
Your a little low followed by keep your nose down. Which one is it, gain altitude or keep nose low?
Click to expand...

The relationship between vertical speed, airspeed, throttle and pitch is certainly not intuitive. One needs to override the "common sense " thought that throttle makes you go faster and pulling back on the sick makes you go higher. Especially on the approach it's mostly about throttle controls climb/decent and pitch controls airspeed. Practicing slow flight can help with this. Get established nice and level and then push the throttle forward and let the airplane do what t wants... you don't really go faster (much) rather you start climbing.

Everone has rough patches in training, just sick with it and it will eventually click.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Trim Trim Trim.

It helps with the "pitch for airspeed" equation and keeps you from over correcting with the yoke.
Click to expand...

That.

As others pointed out, do not get discouraged. It will come.

Ask your CFI for an explanation on the ground with hands and words. Maybe paper and pen. Or heck, PM me for a phone number, I am an engineer, I can explain the physics to you (or I can try my best).

Don't give up, go fly and have FUN!
 
Hang in there. It's normal to have a frustrating session as others have pointed out. I'm very early in training too and have had days where I can't seem to land, followed by days with really good landings.

How is your CFI's teaching method? Is she aware of your frustration? I'm a bit surprised that your questions about speeds and altitudes were, apparently, dismissed by her. Does she make you flustered? If she does frequently, you two might not be a good match. An experienced and knowledgeable pilot doesn't necessarily mean an effective instructor.

But again, it's normal to be frustrated during training. If possible, practice armchair flying while you're at home or in the office (pretend that you're abeam the number, throttle down, flap, etc.) so that some tasks will be committed to memory, making your brain more ready for the many inevitable minor adjustments during an actual landing. Hope your next session will be much better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
As others have said, hang in there -- You're doing good and the way you feel is normal during this part of training. There are a lot of new tasks to perform and your brain is getting saturated. As intense as it feels now, it will get a lot easier with a little more practice.

It's also important for you to experience this stress, disorientation, and confusion. This will force you to focus on your priorities and get a feel for dealing with the chaos. There will likely come a time when you get disoriented for a minute when you're solo and you don't want that to be the first time you feel stress at the controls. Think of it as a challenge and attack it with a positive attitude.

The secret to pattern work is to stay ahead of the airplane. Be thinking about what you're going to do one or two steps ahead. You just lifted off, don't wait until you get to 500' AGL to think about what you're going to do. Plan it on your way there. 500AGL is what MSL? Which way are you turning? What's pattern altitude? When you start your turn: What is pattern altitude again? Is there a visual reference to turn over? When you reach it you're going to ... (Push the nose down, build speed, throttle back, carb heat on, bleed off speed, pitch up, get some flaps out) -- whatever it is that you have to do in your plane at your field, just write it down when you're at home and spend some time visualizing going around the pattern. Think ahead when you're with your CFI and you'll start to have some time to think about making a better approach and landing.
 
I thought your thread title meant that your first session as a student pilot was frustrating, not that you just had your first frustrating session as a student pilot. Obviously the first would suck even more.

Others have already said most things so I won't repeat. Let me offer this; if you are currently doing touch and go's try switching to full stop and taxi back. This will give you a chance to calm down and assess what had just happened in the landing with your instructor in a more relaxed situation then a touch and go offers.

Finally, learn what the phrase "pitch plus power equals performance" means. Your instructor wants you to carry a certain pitch attitude during the approach. That means that you only have the power to play with in order to affect the performance of the aircraft and by performance we mean speed and descent rate.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Sounds like you are doing perfect
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Exactly what I was thinking. You are right where you are supposed to be. Frustrated... And alive. :) The plane is ready for another lesson and the CFI is willing. It's all good.

Keep flying and try to have fun.
 
Thanks for all the feedback. All things I need to work on and can't wait to get another crack at it. I even tried ordering a flight simulator program with controls to get s feel of it for practical experience but they are back ordered. Better in the real thing anyway so I don't pick up bad habits. Anyway, going back out next week so I'll try it again!!
 
Be vewwy vewwy careful with the flight sim at this stage. It isn't going to help you get any feel for it since you're not moving through space.

At this stage of the game, connecting the dots with the kenisthetic and sound inputs is as important as the visual sight picture. And a desktop sim is not able to replicate that. Neither will it replicate the control forces or the way the controls of your training aircraft feel in your hand.

A simulator can help in some phases of training, but not this one. This phase is all about being in the real airplane and practice, practice.

What might help you during lessons is to periodically not do a stop and go in favor of a full stop and taxi back. Stop n goes don't provide any time for instructor to review what you just did (bad and good) and no time for you to properly process what you did (bad and good). A few minutes stopped at the end of the runway gives time to review, have questions answered, deep breaths taken, shoulders rolled, and brain reset. Yeah, you might take fewer laps during your session, but this isn't a NASCAR event. Giving you a chance to immediately think and review your performance will aid in learning.
 
mulligan said:
I understand this on the ground, my point is that when doing it for real my brain is telling me otherwise. Just have to get it down a few times for it to "click"
Click to expand...

yes. I had occasions just like that, when it seemed that I couldn't do anything right in the air. just accept that you'll have those occasions now and then, too. but I kept plugging at it and it all worked out. you'll work it out, too. pitch for airspeed, power for altitude.
 
Remember, you're not flying the plane, the plane flies itself; you manage the plane's energy. The two primary tools you have for that are throttle and trim. These are your two primary controls for the aircraft, they tell the aircraft how fast to fly and what vector to take. The yoke and rudder pedals are what you use to create deviations from that stable state of inertia. If you need to correct your vector getting knocked off by turbulence and return it to the prior steady state, you use the yoke and pedals. If you need to adjust your steady state though as when you are getting low on final, or going too fast, then you have to address those issues using trim to regulate speed, and throttle to regulate rate of descent.
 
I'm still new to this PIC thing, so take what I say with the appropriate amount of salt... Best thing I did was read "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche. Basically talks about why airplanes fly, energy management, and how by naming airplane parts the wrong name it give a false sense of how they function. It helps to get your head around why pulling back on the yoke makes you go up, pulling back more makes you go down.
 
Henning said:
Remember, you're not flying the plane, the plane flies itself; you manage the plane's energy. The two primary tools you have for that are throttle and trim. These are your two primary controls for the aircraft, they tell the aircraft how fast to fly and what vector to take.

...
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Actually just what vector to take - that covers both. You know that, Henning :raspberry:
 
Sounds normal to me. Stick with it. I had the same feeling when trying to work out x-wind landings at about 15 hours. Almost quit. But I didn't and now we never travel long distance by car anymore as a family.
 
This is a very timely topic. Friday we worked on slow flight, full flaps (landing) stalls, and no flaps (takeoff) stalls (all at 3500'). All that went great. Then he had me fly the pattern and I did about 6 touch and goes. It wasn't pretty. I've got everything down except for the actual landing.

Radio calls, alt., rpm's, carb heat, 3 stages of flaps...all good, landings...need more practice. He could tell I was getting frustrated and the last time around when we got on the downwind he said I've got the controls but you hold on lightly and feel what I do. He made 2 perfect turns ending lined up perfectly and floated that bird effortlessly and gently down. I'm glad he did that because I wasn't convinced the plane could land smoothly. :D

I'm flying a 1974 172 with 160hp. I can't remember my speed at 2000rpms level flight in the pattern but on downwind when I reduce to 1500 and add 10 degree flaps we slow to around 85 kts and I'm pitched for 500fpm drop. On base I go to 20 degree flaps and we slow to 75kts, on final I go full flaps and we are around 65kts. A couple of times Friday I got low on final and added a little power. Once I had the runway made I reduced to idle.

I'm getting more relaxed and all the tasks (carb heat, rpms, radio calls, flaps) are starting to flow. I think another day, or maybe two, I'll get this landing thing down (pun intended) a little better.


My cfi tells me all this is very normal but it's nice to hear other people's stories too.
 
2Airtime2 said:
This is a very timely topic. Friday we worked on slow flight, full flaps (landing) stalls, and no flaps (takeoff) stalls (all at 3500'). All that went great. Then he had me fly the pattern and I did about 6 touch and goes. It wasn't pretty. I've got everything down except for the actual landing.

...

My cfi tells me all this is very normal but it's nice to hear other people's stories too.
Click to expand...

A lot of it has to do with where you are looking at touchdown. What helped me was forcing myself to roll my gaze down the runway toward the far end as I flared and held the airplane off, trying to not let it land. I found that sight picture to give me a better idea of my elevation relative to the runway.
 
An N or earlier 172 should not have flaps deployed above 85 knots. That's the top of the white arc. Later 172s allow for 10 deg deployment at higher speeds, but not yours. 2000 RPM will put you about 90 knots level.

Having said that, I'll usually fly downwind in a 172 at 1800 RPM (80 knots) so I can deploy whatever flaps I feel like. There really isn't much reason to go faster unless there is a jet behind you, and then 90 knots is slow, too.

Always know your speed. It and altitude are your most important variables in an approach.

This stuff is a firehose of information, and it's normal to suck at getting all the ducks to line up at first. Just keep doing your best, and it will come.
 
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MAKG1 said:
An N or earlier 172 should not have flaps deployed above 85 knots. That's the top of the white arc. Later 172s allow for 10 deg deployment at higher speeds, but not yours. 2000 RPM will put you about 90 knots level.

Having said that, I'll usually fly downwind in a 172 at 1800 RPM (80 knots) so I can deploy whatever flaps I feel like.
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I may not be stating correct speeds at 2000. I do know that I don't extend flaps til in the safe area of the tach.

My cfi is teaching climb to pattern alt (1400') at full power, reduce to 2000 rpm's while in the pattern, reduce to 1500 on the downwind abeam of touchdown area, GUMPS checks, flaps 10 (when safe to do so), pitch for a 500fpm decent rate, another 10 degrees on base, and full flaps on final. Add power as needed to make the runway, pull power back to idle once you know you've made the runway.

Now that I think about it I guess if my speed is still too high when I drop rpm's to 1500 I pitch for speed til it drops into the white arc.

My cfi is drilling into me "pitch for speed, power for altitude".


I can make the runway. As soon as I find some visual references and learn to keep pulling back more and more trying to keep her in the air I'll have this landing thing. I'm still at :hairraise: but look forward to :yes:
 
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2Airtime2 said:
...


I can make the runway. As soon as I find some visual references and learn to keep pulling back more and more trying to keep her in the air I'll have this landing thing. I'm still at :hairraise: but look forward to :yes:
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Force yourself to let your gaze roll down the runway towards the end of the runway as you round out and flare. Not necessarily all the way to the end of the runway but pretty far down. Look straight ahead. You will see a change in the sight picture as you get very close to the runway elevation, assuming a level runway.
 
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alfadog said:
A lot of it has to do with where you are looking at touchdown. What helped me was forcing myself to roll my gaze down the runway toward the far end as I flared and held the airplane off, trying to not let it land. I found that sight picture to give me a better idea of my elevation relative to the runway.
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Big plus one.
 
I've heard that advice before. I think I will be more relaxed next time and should be able to think better. Flying for 3 hours tomorrow, if I report back you'll know I nailed at least one. :D
 
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