Multi- Engine Time

[CBH]

Hello- I am new to this forum, 21 years old, CFII, 1,150 Total Time, and 33 Multi-Engine Time, and live in a small town with limited multi-engine planes. I have been asked to fly for a couple of individuals in their multi's, however the insurance requirements has turned me down. They are stating I need at least 250 hours. I have looked at purchasing a small multi to fly around and gain hours, but once again, the 250 hour rule is coming into effect. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will accept someone like me?

Also, if I am able to overcome the insurance obstacle and obtain a small multi, is there a need for other multi-engine rated students to ride along cross country to gain hours and help split some of the cost?

Thanks in Advance,

CBH

 

[frfly172]

I had good luck when I purchased my Beech Travelair.,with avemco.

 

[RyanShort1]

Hello- I am new to this forum, 21 years old, CFII, 1,150 Total Time, and 33 Multi-Engine Time, and live in a small town with limited multi-engine planes. I have been asked to fly for a couple of individuals in their multi's, however the insurance requirements has turned me down. They are stating I need at least 250 hours. I have looked at purchasing a small multi to fly around and gain hours, but once again, the 250 hour rule is coming into effect. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will accept someone like me?

Also, if I am able to overcome the insurance obstacle and obtain a small multi, is there a need for other multi-engine rated students to ride along cross country to gain hours and help split some of the cost?

Thanks in Advance,

CBH

There are some places in Texas and Oklahoma where you could probably come for a weekend or two and split some time with somebody and try to get to 50…

 

[EdFred]

That's crazy I only have 10 or 15 hours of multi time and I got a quote no problem in the past few months. They are probably balking at you due to age.

 

[CBH]

There are some places in Texas and Oklahoma where you could probably come for a weekend or two and split some time with somebody and try to get to 50…

What are the names of those places?

 

[Anthem]

That's crazy I only have 10 or 15 hours of multi time and I got a quote no problem in the past few months. They are probably balking at you due to age.

There is a big difference between insurance allowing someone to fly the plane between an aztec, baron or king air. Without knowing what plane the insurance company is requiring time in - i dont think your comment of 10 or 15 hours and being to fly a multi is relevant. Try your I have 10 or 15 hours and flying a King Air and see how far that gets you. . .

 

[Salty]

I looked into a twin a couple years ago and same thing. <200 hours multi - out of luck.

 

[EdFred]

There is a big difference between insurance allowing someone to fly the plane between an aztec, baron or king air. Without knowing what plane the insurance company is requiring time in - i dont think your comment of 10 or 15 hours and being to fly a multi is relevant. Try your I have 10 or 15 hours and flying a King Air and see how far that gets you. . .

So you are assuming the OP was buying a King Air as a

small multi to fly around and gain hours, but once again, the 250 hour rule is coming into effect

Interesting take.

I had no trouble getting insurance quotes on Barons or other small twins. The only real difference between his pilot profile and mine is the age.

 

[iamtheari]

I looked into a twin a couple years ago and same thing. <200 hours multi - out of luck.

I had about 580 hours total time when I started flying multi. The insurance quotes were all over the board on price and qualifications. My broker came through with a carrier that she said she doubted would even quote me, and they were the lowest price while all they asked for qualifications was to earn the AMEL rating and have 15 hours of dual in type. That was about 3 years ago. The insurance market is utter chaos all the time, especially for low-time multi pilots, so you just have to shop hard and be willing to bite the bullet if the best you can get happens to be expensive and/or burdensome.

 

[Salty]

I had about 580 hours total time when I started flying multi. The insurance quotes were all over the board on price and qualifications. My broker came through with a carrier that she said she doubted would even quote me, and they were the lowest price while all they asked for qualifications was to earn the AMEL rating and have 15 hours of dual in type. That was about 3 years ago. The insurance market is utter chaos all the time, especially for low-time multi pilots, so you just have to shop hard and be willing to bite the bullet if the best you can get happens to be expensive and/or burdensome.

I had 1000+ hours, 600+ complex and nobody would even quote me without 200 hours multi.

 

[Salty]

So,

The obvious question here is: How do you get 200 hours of multi experience if they won’t insure you to buy the twin to fly?

The (not-so-obvious) answer that springs to mind is to pay cash for the cheapest twin you can find and fly on liability only until you can build the time. It would seem that the golden rule applies here, just as in other expensive activities…

It seems like schools have more liberal insurance, that I'm sure they are paying for, so you could rent for 200 hours......ouch

 

[iamtheari]

So,

The obvious question here is: How do you get 200 hours of multi experience if they won’t insure you to buy the twin to fly?

The (not-so-obvious) answer that springs to mind is to pay cash for the cheapest twin you can find and fly on liability only until you can build the time. It would seem that the golden rule applies here, just as in other expensive activities…

You can just go naked, no insurance at all. Liability-only coverage may be just as out of reach as a full policy for a young (or old), low-time, newly minted (or rusty) multi pilot. But that’s just one way to get 200 hours. You can also rent for 200 hours, pay an MEI for 200 hours of dual, or fly for a drug cartel.

 

[jbarrass]

I just got insurance on a Seneca with only 40 multi. 3 companies quoted me.

I have a lot of RG time, and according to my broker, that helps a lot.

The market certainly appears to be all over the map.

 

[jbarrass]

At leas on my insurance the 200 hours (and 25 in type) is for the open pilot warranty. Consider quoting as an additional insured.

 

[Salty]

Honestly it depends on a broker willing to actually work to convince an underwriter and if the underwriter had a fight with his wife the night before. Very fickle.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Honestly it depends on a broker willing to actually work to convince an underwriter and if the underwriter had a fight with his wife the night before. Very fickle.

Or try walking in with an instructor and a training plan.

 

[iamtheari]

Or try walking in with an instructor and a training plan.

I did that when I was considering a Navajo. My instructor was an A330 captain with a prior life flying checks in Navajos. The quote was obscene in dollars and even dumber in requirements. They wanted me and the instructor to both get simulator training, and I could only find one staffed, operating Navajo simulator in the country. I decided not to get a Navajo.

 

[Pilot-To-Be]

So I’m working on my CMEL now. Once I get the rating, what are my options to get multi time? I guess my question is, how are people getting the 25-50hrs for the airlines? Paying for dual time? It seems difficult. I hate how there are these requirements of x number of hours but there’s very little ways of getting those hours.

 

[EdFred]

So I’m working on my CMEL now. Once I get the rating, what are my options to get multi time? I guess my question is, how are people getting the 25-50hrs for the airlines? Paying for dual time? It seems difficult. I hate how there are these requirements of x number of hours but there’s very little ways of getting those hours.

Depends on who you are going through insurance for. Why I got quoted earlier this year for ~5k on 179k hull in a twin with less than 15 hours multi (and they only wanted 10 instruction and 5 solo before pax) and the OP was required to have 250 is one of those mysteries.

 

[Anthem]

for insurance - depends on the type of plane and seems to be critically so - the amount of retractable/complex time one has. Ive seen insurance not quoted many times for people with limited complex time. But generally if you have a decent amount of complex time (not sure if thats 100+ or 200+) and instrument- then getting a quote for any moderate twin is generally not an issue - even with low multi hours.

As for the 200 or 250 hour requirement, thats usually reserved for the Open Pilot Warranty. Being a named insurer will have the lowest requirements. And some will require annual or every two years - type/simulator training. Or in airplane training like the BPPP baron course.

And for those thinking liability only - thats only if the insurance company is willing to quote hull + liability. If they wont even quote you hull - they generally wont give you the liability only option either.

 

[Pinecone]

There used to be a number of places that would pair you with another pilot and the two of you would go flying with one under the hood, the other as PIC and safety pilot. They would sell you a block time of 100 hours multi, which was actually 50 hours at the controls.

 

[MauleSkinner]

There used to be a number of places that would pair you with another pilot and the two of you would go flying with one under the hood, the other as PIC and safety pilot. They would sell you a block time of 100 hours multi, which was actually 50 hours at the controls.

There used to be a number of places where you could pay for the privilege of being an actual Part 135 copilot.

 

[TCABM]

There used to be a number of places where you could pay for the privilege of being an actual Part 135 copilot.

Or a 121 a la Gulfstream / Silver and others. Just ask Comair and Colgan about their successes with people who came from this kind of background.

Oh the things this industry buries.

 

[TommyG]

There used to be a number of places where you could pay for the privilege of being an actual Part 135 copilot.

Loved those ads in the flying magazines.