Multi Add-on with single engine approach counting as IPC?

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GrahamC

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Graham
I earned my Commercial Pilot license well outside of my Instrument currency. I then did my Multi Add-on during which I logged several (well more than 6) approaches with my instructor, including holding, intercepting, and tracking. On my Multi Add-On check ride, I performed a single engine instrument approach. Does the check ride, or multi-training with my instructor count as an IPC, or would I need to have specifically received an endorsement or other document stating that I completed an IPC?

I have an idea of what the answer is, and have gotten a couple different answers from people i've asked, but I want to get some more opinions.

I should mention that all of my training was completed part 142, NOT part 141 or 61.
 
Do you even NEED an IPC in this case? Seems like your training has covered all the bases for currency without the need for a written endorsement.

But you should be able to answer this yourself by perusing the appropriate section of the FAR
 
I would think so
 
An IPC is supposed to cover the areas of operation of the instrument PTS. So if the instructor/examiner was not testing you against those standards I don't see how it would count as an IPC.

If you did meet the requirements for an IPC, I can't imagine an instructor not filling out an endorsement to actually prove it.
 
Just noticed you're going to ERU?!

If you're handing out dump trucks worth of your, or your parents, cash for that "education" why don't you ask your "professors" I mean if you're paying out that much, get your money's worth.
 
The answer is not explicitly in the regulations. However, a Chief Counsel interpretation about whether instrument currency is reset by an instrument rating practical test may be enlightening:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../2008/wynne - (2008) legal interpretation.pdf
That interpretation says it is, but only because an instrument rating practical contains all the elements of an IPC and then some. However, the practical test for an additional ME class rating with instrument privileges does not (only one approach, no partial panel, no u/a recoveries, etc). Therefore, I suspect that if the OP's question was asked of the FAA, the answer would be "no".

However, as long as the OP was no more than six months out of instrument currency at the time, the 6+ instrument approaches done as part of the ME training would serve to reset the OP's instrument currency.
 
I would think you would need a seperate endorsement and the multi-engine rating wouldn't specifically count as rehacking your instrument currency.

Regs say you need to cover a minimum what is listed in the IPC table of the Instrument rating PTS:
-Holding
-Recovery from unusual attitudes
-Intercept and tracking of nav systems & DME Arcs
-Non-precision, precision, missed, and circling approaches
-landing from a straight-in or circling approach
-one engine inop during straight and level and turns
-one engine inop instrument approach
-loss of primary flight instruments
-postflight checking of instruments and equipment.

If you did all that during your multi-engine training you should be able to ask your instructor to sign you off for a IPC. I did that with my multi-engine instructor and he was more than happy to accommodate.
 
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James331 said:
Just noticed you're going to ERU?!

If you're handing out dump trucks worth of your, or your parents, cash for that "education" why don't you ask your "professors" I mean if you're paying out that much, get your money's worth.
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Hey James- Thanks for the suggestion! I hadn't even thought of asking my "professors." I guess those dump trucks of my parents' money went to nothing. My "education" has clearly failed me.

To everyone else, thank you for your thoughts, comments and opinions. I appreciate the input.
 
Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) of this section within the prescribed time, or within 6 calendar months after the prescribed time, may not serve as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR until that person passes an instrument proficiency check consisting of a representative number of tasks required by the instrument rating practical test.

If you completed the tasks required by the IR practical test then you are good. Edit see Gucci's post.
 
GrahamC said:
Hey James- Thanks for the suggestion! I hadn't even thought of asking my "professors." I guess those dump trucks of my parents' money went to nothing. My "education" has clearly failed me.
.
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Sorry to hear







I wasn't trying to be a jerk

When you make this
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
B.S. Aeronautical Science
Aviation Safety Minor
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your signature, one has to question why you aren't getting those answers from your school, or the knowledge from those aviation degrees.
 
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James331 said:
Just noticed you're going to ERU?!

If you're handing out dump trucks worth of your, or your parents, cash for that "education" why don't you ask your "professors" I mean if you're paying out that much, get your money's worth.
Click to expand...

Why the personal attacks, dude? Go find something else to do, or maybe, fly an airplane or something.
 
Brad Z said:
Why the personal attacks, dude? Go find something else to do, or maybe, fly an airplane or something.
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Not a personal attack, why so sensitive?

If it was a "attack" which is a very dramatic word, it would be on ERU and the overpriced under delivering education commonly found with that school.

The fact that someone can have a aviation degree, and a expensive one at that, and not know the answer to a rather simple question like this is redicioulus.
 
James331 said:
Not a personal attack, why so sensitive?

If it was a "attack" which is a very dramatic word, it would be on ERU and the overpriced under delivering education commonly found with that school.

The fact that someone can have a aviation degree, and a expensive one at that, and not know the answer to a rather simple question like this is redicioulus.
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...he said, to illustrate his point.:rolleyes:
 
James331 said:
Sorry to hear







I wasn't trying to be a jerk

When you make this

your signature, one has to question why you aren't getting those answers from your school, or the knowledge from those aviation degrees.
Click to expand...

James331 said:
Not a personal attack, why so sensitive?

If it was a "attack" which is a very dramatic word, it would be on ERU and the overpriced under delivering education commonly found with that school.

The fact that someone can have a aviation degree, and a expensive one at that, and not know the answer to a rather simple question like this is redicioulus.
Click to expand...



Maybe you don't see it as an attack, but it is. :nonod:
 
I know the intent I had when I wrote what I wrote, sorry it's not a "personal attack"

jeeze, what is this place turning into "New Age Sensitive Pilots of America"

Is it that out of line when I'm surprised and disappointed that a super expensive aviation degree doesn't deliver some basic knowledge of the FARs?
 
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I was asking not because I was incapable of reading the FARs, but because after a discussion I had with a group of people in my CFI class, we had some differing opinions. I thought I'd pose the situation to this group of pilots and see what the general consensus was.

James, I don't feel personally attacked, but I do feel that you have an unrealistic and perhaps skewed perception of the kind of environment Embry-Riddle is, and the kind of education one can earn there. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

I include that I'm a Riddle alum in my signature because I'm proud of having graduated with the degree that I did. Not because I think it's a label that shouts "I know everything!" I don't. The day our education fails us is when we stop asking questions, not when we engage in a discussion, or get a second opinion.
 
James331 said:
I know the intent I had when I wrote what I wrote, sorry it's not a "personal attack"

jeeze, what is this place turning into "New Age Sensitive Pilots of America"

Is it that out of line when I'm surprised and disappointed that a super expensive aviation degree doesn't deliver some basic knowledge of the FARs?
Click to expand...

:nonod: :rolleyes2:
 
James331 said:
I would think so
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So first you go off and tell him that his education is worthless because he doesn't know the answer to everything aviation related and then you don't even know yourself?

GrahamC said:
I was asking not because I was incapable of reading the FARs, but because after a discussion I had with a group of people in my CFI class, we had some differing opinions. I thought I'd pose the situation to this group of pilots and see what the general consensus was.

James, I don't feel personally attacked, but I do feel that you have an unrealistic and perhaps skewed perception of the kind of environment Embry-Riddle is, and the kind of education one can earn there. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

I include that I'm a Riddle alum in my signature because I'm proud of having graduated with the degree that I did. Not because I think it's a label that shouts "I know everything!" I don't. The day our education fails us is when we stop asking questions, not when we engage in a discussion, or get a second opinion.
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Don't feel bad Graham, James has jumped on me a few times for being an ERAU grad. :rolleyes2: Guess I should take the pin off of my collar too...
 
overdrive148 said:
So first you go off and tell him that his education is worthless because he doesn't know the answer to everything aviation related and then you don't even know yourself?


Don't feel bad Graham, James has jumped on me a few times for being an ERAU grad. :rolleyes2: Guess I should take the pin off of my collar too...
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Maybe he's just jealous? My ERAU degree was instrumental in getting my last two full-time jobs.

M.Av.Mgt., ERAU 1985.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Maybe you don't see it as an attack, but it is. :nonod:
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You gotta understand that only James331 can define an attack. If he doesn't believe it, it didn't happen. His intentions are the only thing that is important.

This has been going on and on since I've been a member here. Isn't going to change anytime soon.
 
retailguy said:
You gotta understand that only James331 can define an attack. If he doesn't believe it, it didn't happen. His intentions are the only thing that is important.

This has been going on and on since I've been a member here. Isn't going to change anytime soon.
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Yep, you are right on that one.
 
ERAU? Single biggest mistake I've made in my life so far. When are these time machines supposed to be invented?
 
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