More multi engine time worth it?

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cysbeattie

Filing Flight Plan
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christian
Aloha, Got my PPL in Hawaii. Passed Instrument written. Looking for best way to get to the airlines. Is it enough to get minimum (25 hrs) of multiengine or more is better approach (50 hrs plus). Considering going for instrument, commercial, & multi-engine in 1 shot. Any flight school recommendations? Considering all options. Speed, cost, & value/effectiveness are all being weighed. Also wondering how to get the 1500 hrs. CFI or cargo job a better route. Mahalo for your insight in advance!
 
The way the Regionals are hiring now all you need is the minimum multi time. As for CFI over cargo whichever will get you to 1500 the quickest will be the better route. My guess is that will be CFI.
 
MauleSkinner said:
How did you pick 25 hours as the minimum?
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While the ATP (or RATP) requires 50 hours in category & class, only 25 of the 50 must be in an actual aircraft; the other 25 can be in a full flight simulator, which a newhire at a regional would get during training.

cysbeattie said:
Is it enough to get minimum (25 hrs) of multiengine or more is better approach (50 hrs plus).
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The 25 is enough to get hired at a regional. More may or may not be required to be hired at your 1st choice regional, if you have a 1st choice. If you do, talk to the recruiting department and ask. When I was applying, Republic wanted 42 and most of the others just 25.
 
Obsession, by Calvin Clean
 
My, my…. How things have changed. I think I was screwed trying to become an airline pilot. In my day you had to catch a serious break to get multi time (which I did), Then a regional would trash your resume if you didn’t have a minimum of 1000 hours of *true* PIC time in a twin. I’m talking true ME time like flying checks single pilot.

Damn… new guys can walk right in to what I now have after many years of paying dues.
 
Kritchlow said:
My, my…. How things have changed. I think I was screwed trying to become an airline pilot. In my day you had to catch a serious break to get multi time (which I did), Then a regional would trash your resume if you didn’t have a minimum of 1000 hours of *true* PIC time in a twin. I’m talking true ME time like flying checks single pilot.

Damn… new guys can walk right in to what I now have after many years of paying dues.
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I guess the job market is always supply/demand driven like any marketplace. Right time, right place (luck) has always been a big factor. Showing up on time, with the goods helps a lot too

Over the past several weeks I’ve been surprised to see a number of high $$ TV spots encouraging people to apply for jobs in the automotive industry or for jobs in specific companies e.g. tire producer. This is around the NC Triad and Triangle. I can’t recall having seen that level of recruiting activity before.


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You rang?
latest
 
The Arms of the Colvin family.

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Kritchlow said:
My, my…. How things have changed. I think I was screwed trying to become an airline pilot. In my day you had to catch a serious break to get multi time (which I did), Then a regional would trash your resume if you didn’t have a minimum of 1000 hours of *true* PIC time in a twin. I’m talking true ME time like flying checks single pilot.

Damn… new guys can walk right in to what I now have after many years of paying dues.
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It’s all just a big cycle. I once met a guy that was hired at either PanAm or eastern with zero hours. Can’t remember which one for sure but I think it was pan am. His entire career was on the 747. Had never even been on an airplane when he was hired. The airline provided all his training from zero to retired.

I look around at the 25 year olds in new hire training and I’m excited for them because I hope they never see the crap I’ve seen. I also hope they have full, uninterrupted and profitable careers until they retire. Especially since I’ll be with them for the first twenty years ;-)
 
Kritchlow said:
My, my…. How things have changed. I think I was screwed trying to become an airline pilot. In my day you had to catch a serious break to get multi time (which I did), Then a regional would trash your resume if you didn’t have a minimum of 1000 hours of *true* PIC time in a twin. I’m talking true ME time like flying checks single pilot.

Damn… new guys can walk right in to what I now have after many years of paying dues.
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sometimes you hit the top of the wave, sometimes you hit the low, I seem to have hit the low points. I was predicted to make captain in dec 2001 at the regional and flow to the major in 2003. finally made captain in 2007 and flowed in 2016, oh well, at least i didn't get furloughed and my paychecks never bounced.......
 
Bill Watson said:
I guess the job market is always supply/demand driven like any marketplace. Right time, right place (luck) has always been a big factor. Showing up on time, with the goods helps a lot too

Over the past several weeks I’ve been surprised to see a number of high $$ TV spots encouraging people to apply for jobs in the automotive industry or for jobs in specific companies e.g. tire producer. This is around the NC Triad and Triangle. I can’t recall having seen that level of recruiting activity before.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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unsafervguy said:
sometimes you hit the top of the wave, sometimes you hit the low, I seem to have hit the low points. I was predicted to make captain in dec 2001 at the regional and flow to the major in 2003. finally made captain in 2007 and flowed in 2016, oh well, at least i didn't get furloughed and my paychecks never bounced.......
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I caught the part of the wave where it collapses on you and drowning is imminent. :)
It has been an interesting career to say the least.

edit: I’m not complaining.
 
No offense, but you are a PPL. Worry about multi time later. Get the instrument done, build time on your dime through commercial, and CFI for a year or two at a busy school. While instructing, get your ME and bum some right seat rides with older guys who don’t care about logging time to get to 25 hours.

You aren’t getting a job with a fresh commercial unless you get ridiculously lucky. Instructing is the only real way.
 
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Kritchlow said:
My, my…. How things have changed. I think I was screwed trying to become an airline pilot. In my day you had to catch a serious break to get multi time (which I did), Then a regional would trash your resume if you didn’t have a minimum of 1000 hours of *true* PIC time in a twin. I’m talking true ME time like flying checks single pilot.

Damn… new guys can walk right in to what I now have after many years of paying dues.
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Supply and demand. Back in the early-mid 60's I know for a short time one airline was hiring people with no flying experience and training them...
 
25 multi and a pulse is pretty much the standards again. I wouldn’t “waste” money on more multi time. Go with the job that will allow you to build time as quickly as possible. Getting your CFI is usually the quickest way to build time.
 
I know a guy who got hired on with Endeavor with only 25hrs of Multi time. Honestly, that should be the least of your priorities at this point, just keep plugging with the ratings!
 
RyanB said:
I know a guy who got hired on with Endeavor with only 25hrs of Multi time. Honestly, that should be the least of your priorities at this point, just keep plugging with the ratings!
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I bet he breezed right through training, too. ;)
 
RyanB said:
I know a guy who got hired on with Endeavor with only 25hrs of Multi time. Honestly, that should be the least of your priorities at this point, just keep plugging with the ratings!
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I was given the job with 11 hours multi lol. Obviously I had to get the rest of the 14 hours when I showed up for class though.
 
jordane93 said:
I was given the job with 11 hours multi lol. Obviously I had to get the rest of the 14 hours when I showed up for class though.
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You were hired with only 11 hours multi??? OMG I can’t believe how dangerous and detrimental that is for the airlines. I hope you manage to figure out what’s going on before you kill everyone like a Colvin pilot.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
You were hired with only 11 hours multi??? OMG I can’t believe how dangerous and detrimental that is for the airlines. I hope you manage to figure out what’s going on before you kill everyone like a Colvin pilot.
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well. since he is now flying a 767, i think he figured it out. really, hrs are just a number. I know people that have 1500hrs and I know people that have 1500 of the same hr. which is a better pilot?
multi engine planes fly just like single engine planes when all engines are running, the difference is when one quits. lots of people have lots of hrs in a multi that have not done a single engine approach since their checkride. you do more single engine work in one 121 sim session than most people do in a lifetime.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I bet he breezed right through training, too. ;)
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Probably

You need to adjust for your demographic, at what the regionals pay you’re not going to get astronauts.

I have a friend who just got hired into a 135 corp jet, he has ATP mins, most all of his time is VFR short range stuff, 120k salary a year right seat good schedule, one of my old students got a job right seat in a regional ATR, he is going to make half unless he wants to work lots of his off days and max his time. Both did just fine at training and were at ATP mins.

I think what’s more important that how many hours at ATP mins person has in a Seminole, is how engaged they are at company sim training.
 
unsafervguy said:
well. since he is now flying a 767, i think he figured it out. really, hrs are just a number. I know people that have 1500hrs and I know people that have 1500 of the same hr. which is a better pilot?
multi engine planes fly just like single engine planes when all engines are running, the difference is when one quits. lots of people have lots of hrs in a multi that have not done a single engine approach since their checkride. you do more single engine work in one 121 sim session than most people do in a lifetime.
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Whatever dude. I know what I’m talkin bout
 
Jackk said:
Probably

You need to adjust for your demographic, at what the regionals pay you’re not going to get astronauts.

I have a friend who just got hired into a 135 corp jet, he has ATP mins, most all of his time is VFR short range stuff, 120k salary a year right seat good schedule, one of my old students got a job right seat in a regional ATR, he is going to make half unless he wants to work lots of his off days and max his time. Both did just fine at training and were at ATP mins.

I think what’s more important that how many hours at ATP mins person has in a Seminole, is how engaged they are at company sim training.
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Pay has nothing to do with it. The 50-multi-hour pilots that I see struggle with V1 cuts and single engine missed approaches far more than those with even 100 hours multi, regardless of pay. Being engaged in training helps, but it’s rare for that to make as big a difference in my experience.
 
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MauleSkinner said:
Pay has nothing to do with it. The 50-multi-hour pilots that I see struggle with V1 cuts and single engine missed approaches far more than those with even 100 hours multi, regardless of pay. Being engaged in training helps, but it’s rare for that to make as big a difference in my experience.
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You don’t think the pay is a factor in the type of talent a operation attracts?
 
Jackk said:
You don’t think the pay is a factor in the type of talent a operation attracts?
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Yes. But at that level, doubling experience seems to have more impact on skill level than doubling pay.
 
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MauleSkinner said:
Yes. But at that level, doubling experience seems to have more impact on skill level than doubling pay.
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Asking for 2x the quality of the applicant, for the 1x pay is how we end up with a “pilot shortage”

“If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys”
Or you don’t get anyone at all.
 
Jackk said:
Asking for 2x the quality of the applicant, for the 1x pay is how we end up with a “pilot shortage”

“If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys”
Or you don’t get anyone at all.
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So you’re in agreement with those that think minimum standards is a goal. They’re the ones who tend to be not engaged, in my experience, again, regardless of pay.
 
MauleSkinner said:
So you’re in agreement with those that think minimum standards is a goal. They’re the ones who tend to be not engaged, in my experience, again, regardless of pay.
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The pay needs to match the standards.

The reason for the ATP rule change crash, in my opinion was a over worked and under paid crew, I don’t think their mind was in the game and expecting it to be was a little naive, it is easier to blame dead crew than pull the vail off that nasty part of the industry.

I think if they paid a good flat salary and offered a good schedule it would fix many issues.

Paying a hair more than a CFI makes, and say you can make more of you work lots of your days off, that’s not how we move forward, as our current “pilot shortage” shows.
 
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