More miners trapped?

[SkyHog]

I was surprised to not see a thread about this yet.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/08/utah.mine/index.html

It appears a mine collapsed in Huntington, UT. Three men are trapped in the mine (I know, there's a total of 6, but I'm going to stick with reporting three for obvious reasons). They're saying it will take until Friday at the earliest to make contact.

Yikes.

 

[tonycondon]

its part of the job, no?

 

[kevin47881]

its part of the job, no?

To become trapped? I don't remember reading that in the brochure.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

To become trapped? I don't remember reading that in the brochure.

A risk inherent in the job might be a better way to put it.

 

[tonycondon]

exactly dave, its not like this hasnt been happening oh say for ever since people started digging big holes in the ground? not saying that i dont feel bad for the dudes stuck down there but its just part of the risk they accepted, i dont feel its national news.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

exactly dave, its not like this hasnt been happening oh say for ever since people started digging big holes in the ground? not saying that i dont feel bad for the dudes stuck down there but its just part of the risk they accepted, i dont feel its national news.

That's my position as well - it's always unfortunate when an accident happens, but the risk of collapse is part of being an underground miner.

It's no different than the risk of a crash to a pilot, or for that matter a driver - it's inherent in the activity.

The occasional mishap, while unfortunate, should not be unexpected. That's not to say that those mishaps should be accepted - every reasonable means should be used to prevent them.

 

[Frank Browne]

But the story isn't just about the trapped miners. It's about the expense, risk, and effort that goes into attempting to save fellow human beings who would otherwise die for sure. Frankly, it's reassuring to me to see such value placed on human life.

 

[alaskaflyer]

But the story isn't just about the trapped miners. It's about the expense, risk, and effort that goes into attempting to save fellow human beings who would otherwise die for sure. Frankly, it's reassuring to me to see such value placed on human life.

Of course, some of those trapped will inevitably be the kind of people that deserve the "skyhog dictrine" of being put to death for their immigration status, so maybe it's a waste of effort to rescue them

(I know, there's a total of 6, but I'm going to stick with reporting three for obvious reasons).

Oh, yes, always obvious when you are part of the conversation.

That aside, the story is interesting to me because when I lived in that area I understood it to be one of the more seismologically stable areas in the US...now earthquakes?

I hope they can rescue them. ALL of them.

 

[alaskaflyer]

That's my position as well - it's always unfortunate when an accident happens, but the risk of collapse is part of being an underground miner.

It's no different than the risk of a crash to a pilot, or for that matter a driver - it's inherent in the activity.

The occasional mishap, while unfortunate, should not be unexpected. That's not to say that those mishaps should be accepted - every reasonable means should be used to prevent them.

Which they weren't judging by the amount of both minor and significant violation notices the mine has received. Cost of doing business?

 

[Frank Browne]

Of course, some of those trapped will inevitably be the kind of people that deserve the "skyhog dictrine" of being put to death for their immigration status, so maybe it's a waste of effort to rescue them

Just MHO, but the fact that they are human beings trapped 1500 feet underground and may still be in need of someone to rescue them, transcends their legal status. Rescue them, and worry about their status later. They are human beings, and deserve nothing less. I was hoping that was clear from my earlier post.

I hope they can rescue them. ALL of them.

So do I.

 

[ReverendSlappy]

Of course, some of those trapped will inevitably be the kind of people that deserve the "skyhog dictrine" of being put to death for their immigration status, so maybe it's a waste of effort to rescue them

Oh, yes, always obvious when you are part of the conversation.

Not to mention the fact that there is thus far zero indication that the 3 Mexican nationals trapped were working in the US illegally (news flash: many foreigners do work here legally ). I don't want to send this into the SZ, but a more shining example of flawed ideology (the brilliant "Just shoot 'em!" plan) I couldn't imagine. Methinks some folks have been playing with one of these.

And Frank's absolutely right: That matter couldn't possibly be more irrelevant in the current circumstances, and I hope all of them come out unharmed.

That aside, the story is interesting to me because when I lived in that area I understood it to be one of the more seismologically stable areas in the US...now earthquakes?

I hope they can rescue them. ALL of them.

Yeah, the "it was an earthquake!" thing the mine owner keeps yellin' about sure smells fishy.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

...
Yeah, the "it was an earthquake!" thing the mine owner keeps yellin' about sure smells fishy.

I thought the same thing - his behavior seems very odd, for a variety of reasons. Anyone else think the same thing?

 

[alaskaflyer]

Not to mention the fact that there is thus far zero indication that the 3 Mexican nationals trapped were working in the US illegally (news flash: many foreigners do work here legally ). I don't want to send this into the SZ, but a more shining example of flawed ideology (the brilliant "Just shoot 'em!" plan) I couldn't imagine. Methinks some folks have been playing with one of these.

And Frank's absolutely right: That matter couldn't possibly be more irrelevant in the current circumstances, and I hope all of them come out unharmed.



Yeah, the "it was an earthquake!" thing the mine owner keeps yellin' about sure smells fishy.

Well, his behavior is fishy, but another earthquake ruined rescue efforts , and then others yesterday or today. The comments from the USGS seem rather muddled, so I'm still not sure if any of them are natural events or not. I know that the whole time I lived just south of there (off and on for five years) I never even heard of an earthquake, even minor ones.

I think that his behavior might be explained by the mine's poor safety and regulatory record up to this point, and his employment of what will probably turn out to be illegal aliens at the mine. No telling what else will turn up.

 

[kevin47881]

exactly dave, its not like this hasnt been happening oh say for ever since people started digging big holes in the ground? not saying that i dont feel bad for the dudes stuck down there but its just part of the risk they accepted, i dont feel its national news.

That I'll agree with. It's an inherent risk of the job.

 

[SkyHog]

Just MHO, but the fact that they are human beings trapped 1500 feet underground and may still be in need of someone to rescue them, transcends their legal status. Rescue them, and worry about their status later. They are human beings, and deserve nothing less. I was hoping that was clear from my earlier post.



So do I.

Well, assuming they are illegal immigrants (I incorrectly jumped to the conclusion when I read "Mexican National," its an easy assumption to make when there are so many supporters of their Constitutional Rights), I also hope they are brought out alive.

The unfortunate thing is that our tax money will probably be spent rehabbing them to take someone else's job.

 

[jkaduk]

It is a risky job. But why is it that every time one of these things happen it comes out that the mine was issued "umpty ump safety violations in the past year"?

 

[Frank Browne]

It is a risky job. But why is it that every time one of these things happen it comes out that the mine was issued "umpty ump safety violations in the past year"?

Good question. But I would think it nearly impossible to run a mining operation with some violations along the way. Nature of the beast I would guess.

 

[ReverendSlappy]

It is a risky job. But why is it that every time one of these things happen it comes out that the mine was issued "umpty ump safety violations in the past year"?

Good question. But I would think it nearly impossible to run a mining operation with some violations along the way. Nature of the beast I would guess.

I seem to recall hearing in some news coverage somewhere that the number and type of violations issued to this particular mine -- while sounding like a lot -- were actually fewer in number and less severe than that of the average mine. I think Frank's spot-on: Sounds like no matter how hard one tries, they're gonna run afoul of the regulations as a matter of course.

 

[Richard]

I seem to recall hearing in some news coverage somewhere that the number and type of violations issued to this particular mine -- while sounding like a lot -- were actually fewer in number and less severe than that of the average mine. I think Frank's spot-on: Sounds like no matter how hard one tries, they're gonna run afoul of the regulations as a matter of course.

You bet! By OSHA's own admission to be in compliance with some of their regs means you must be in violation of other regs. Onerous....

 

[wsuffa]

You bet! By OSHA's own admission to be in compliance with some of their regs means you must be in violation of other regs. Onerous....

And I'll teeter on the verge of sending thi to spin....

your statement points out the reason that government needs to be reigned in and reduced.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I seem to recall hearing in some news coverage somewhere that the number and type of violations issued to this particular mine -- while sounding like a lot -- were actually fewer in number and less severe than that of the average mine. I think Frank's spot-on: Sounds like no matter how hard one tries, they're gonna run afoul of the regulations as a matter of course.

I get the impression that it's sort of like driving - there are so many regulations that, no matter how hard you try, sooner or later you will violate one.

Which is why it's good to remember that just because you break the law does not necessarily mean that you're negligent, and just because you obey the law does not necessarily mean that you're not negligent.

 

[alaskaflyer]

You bet! By OSHA's own admission to be in compliance with some of their regs means you must be in violation of other regs. Onerous....

I'd sure like to see source material on that....to hear a gov't agency admit such a thing is a rare event indeed, even if true.

"No matter how hard you try...?" Horsepucky! Companies are fully capable of complying with every single OSHA and Mine Safety requirement. That they choose not to with an eye towards the bottom line is their problem, and bad things will continue to happen, which is the reason for the bleepin' agencies in the first place. The only way to encourage compliance is to make it so bad when they do kill somebody that they do it better next time to avoid being bled again.

 

[jkaduk]

I heard on the radio this morning that they had over three hundred violations since 2004. Half of which could result in injury to miners. Further they had not complied with some provisions of the mine safety act because the act gives 3 years to comply.

 

[AuntPeggy]

They broke through from the top with a 2-inch hole. The air is breathable, but the microphone is not picking up any sounds of people. Another 8-inch hole is on its way down. And miners are digging their way through the rubble from two directions.

Hope they find someone alive...