More 91.113 Right-of-way debate

[Aye Effaar]

One of the exceptions to ROW during landing has always confused me.

(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach.

It’s the last section that hurts my head. Aircraft in final shall not take advatage of his ROW by forcing other aircraft off the runway — when that aircarft is attempting to make way for some other aircraft on final? Do they mean some sort if crossing runway? And so long as the aircraft is not holding position for the crossing runway — we’ll then it’s fine to force the slow-poke to clear the runway?

 

[luvflyin]

One of the exceptions to ROW during landing has always confused me.

(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach.

It’s the last section that hurts my head. Aircraft in final shall not take advatage of his ROW by forcing other aircraft off the runway — when that aircarft is attempting to make way for some other aircraft on final? Do they mean some sort if crossing runway? And so long as the aircraft is not holding position for the crossing runway — we’ll then it’s fine to force the slow-poke to clear the runway?

I think the point is that the landing aircraft can’t say ‘I gots the right of way and you best be getting off the runway like NOW, I don’t care if you have to turn off the runway into the weeds.

 

[Lindberg]

Airplane A lands. Airplane B is in final. Airplane B has the right of way. But Airplane B must give Airplane A a chance to get out of the way.

Airplane B can't land on top of Airplane A, but neither can Airplane A dally on the runway.

Keep in mind that one purpose of these rules is to determine who was at fault after a collision.

 

[dbahn]

It also applies to a situation where an aircraft has landed in one direction and a second aircraft is about to land in the opposite direction. In that case the first aircraft will actually see the aircraft on final but doesn't need to be forced off the runway by ROW rules.

I actually think that's the more "likely" practical application of the rule.

 

[rhkennerly]

It means it is you duty to go around if there is a conflict. It’s to protect regular pilots on the ground from feeling rushed & having a loss of control-ground incident by being pressured off the runway. (I don’t know the history, but imagine it originated with conflicts between slow taxiing taildraggers & fast taxiing trikes).

In my experience this conflict mostly happens at those trunk to tail TnG parades, like down at Florida flight schools, or at busy fly-ins…don’t get between me & those pancakes!

When I was down in DeLand last year for a BFR, I noticed that there is a published airport AFD “Touch and go ops prohibited if there are 3 or more acft in the tfc pat” (due to the heavy training at ER). Instead, you must land & join the taxi back conga line (up to 8 planes when I was there), if you wanted another circuit. I was told by my instructor it was because people crowding final to get in another lap.

Other than fussing at them on the radio, no idea how you’d force them off the runway, unless you’re flying an FA-18 (but that rocket would sure leave a divot in the runway.)

 

[dtuuri]

I used to teach at an airport with a paved runway and no taxiway — you had to back-taxi after landing. Often, after turning around at the end, somebody would turn final and it became a game of chicken. If the taxiing airplane left the runway to cede the right-of-way (onto the parallel sod runway), it would get stuck in the muck if it were springtime and close the narrow paved runway, half on and half off of it. We taught students this portion of the regulations in the hopes they would not feel pressured to make this mistake. Some still did.

 

[Salty]

I used to teach at an airport with a paved runway and no taxiway — you had to back-taxi after landing. Often, after turning around at the end, somebody would turn final and it became a game of chicken. If the taxiing airplane left the runway to cede the right-of-way (onto the parallel sod runway), it would get stuck in the muck if it were springtime and close the narrow paved runway, half on and half off of it. We taught students this portion of the regulations in the hopes they would not feel pressured to make this mistake. Some still did.

Well, at some point it isn’t a mistake anymore right?

 

[dtuuri]

Well, at some point it isn’t a mistake anymore right?

Maybe in July. Of course, if you can do it without getting yourself stuck, go ahead, but I'm talking when you can't take the risk.

 

[Salty]

Uh, I mean if a plane is actually not seeing you, then getting stuck in the mud would not be a mistake.

 

[dtuuri]

Uh, I mean if a plane is actually not seeing you, then getting stuck in the mud would not be a mistake.

Maybe on a big runway a small plane can get lost in the pavement to a plane on final, but not there. The problem was self-conscious students afraid of making somebody go around under the impression it would their fault under the rules. We pointed out the rest of the rule to them when the sod was unusable.