Mooneys..M20

francisco collazos

francisco collazos

Pre-takeoff checklist
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ciscovet
I've been browsing the classified sections and I would love to purchase a mooney. I see a couple of these planes either M20c or e models with low time hours that seemed to be priced fairly low compared to cherokees, cessnas. Seems like these are very good deals but maybe i'm missing something. IDK i'd figure i'd ask you guys what you think.

this one has low hours but has been repaired.

this one has mid timed engine
 
It has been said that the C or E are the best bang for the buck in aviation.

M20C/E are in my usual window shopping rotation, along with RV6/9, CTLS, 182P...

Fuel tank sealant, hydraulic flaps... what are the other type-specific areas to watch for?

@eman1200
 
francisco collazos said:
I've been browsing the classified sections and I would love to purchase a mooney. I see a couple of these planes either M20c or e models with low time hours that seemed to be priced fairly low compared to cherokees, cessnas. Seems like these are very good deals but maybe i'm missing something. IDK i'd figure i'd ask you guys what you think.

this one has low hours but has been repaired.

this one has mid timed engine
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Make sure the backseat will meet your needs. It's pretty cramped back there.
 
asicer said:
Make sure the backseat will meet your needs. It's pretty cramped back there.
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And front seat. I sat in the front pax seat of a C and we couldn't even shut the door.
 
First, let me congratulate the OP on his excellent taste.

Those planes would have been $30-40K back before Covid.

You need to go through the logs carefully before you can figure out if they are a good deal or not.

The panels are what drives prices these days, and yes the short body Mooneys rear seats are not designed for people with legs and some don’t like the seating position of front seats. Think 911 Porsche, not a crossover SUV.
 
asicer said:
Make sure the backseat will meet your needs. It's pretty cramped back there.
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I would love to but I have not found anyone locally (BKV fl) that owns one and would let me sit in one but i'll keep trying
 
here we go again.

random mooney pic someone just happen to post in a local fb group

backset_mooney2.jpg


Frank in the back set of a mooney. Frank is 7'12", 4,480 ounces

backseat_mooney1.jpg


and this is either 2 dimes of heroin or maybe a coupl'a sugar packets in the backseat of a comanche

backseat_comanche.jpg


just the facts, jacks
 
I like the Mooneys and may buy one when I retire. I have time in the C, F, 201 and 231 but probably 100 hours total and most of it in a C. In the C my seat was very close to the back seat, no one could sit behind me, I am 6'4". The others were much better. I really liked the F but it needed a new panel, flight instruments were not laid out well. It had the manual gear and flaps which I do like. It also had all the 201 speed mods and looked like a 201 until you looked inside.
 
Plano Pilot said:
I like the Mooneys and may buy one when I retire. I have time in the C, F, 201 and 231 but probably 100 hours total and most of it in a C. In the C my seat was very close to the back seat, no one could sit behind me, I am 6'4". The others were much better. I really liked the F but it needed a new panel, flight instruments were not laid out well. It had the manual gear and flaps which I do like. It also had all the 201 speed mods and looked like a 201 until you looked inside.
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There’s more to a 201 than just the speed mods. Increased gear speeds, push-pull controls instead of throttle quadrant, generally better panels (AP was standard, annunciator), improved seats, modern yokes, etc.

But Fs will usually have more useful load without all this.
 
I would of owned a Mooney, actually thought I had bought one (the owner backed out), but what gave me pause were, 1)fuel leaks, 2)engines tended to run hot and seldom reached TBO(despite a bullet proof engine) 3)never had a local mechanic that had the expertise and experience working on them. Many of them were not well maintained(which could be said of many other brands). All that being said, if I could have found a mechanic that had the experience of maintaining several over the years, I would have bought one.
 
Eldorado said:
I would of owned a Mooney, actually thought I had bought one (the owner backed out), but what gave me pause were, 1)fuel leaks, 2)engines tended to run hot and seldom reached TBO(despite a bullet proof engine) 3)never had a local mechanic that had the expertise and experience working on them. Many of them were not well maintained(which could be said of many other brands). All that being said, if I could have found a mechanic that had the experience of maintaining several over the years, I would have bought one.
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Engines running hot is pilot error. Easy to check now that most owners have engine monitors, just ask to see the logs.
I know mechanics who own(ed) Mooneys, but yes, they do require some expertise. And they can be a bit cramped, I know APs that refuse to work on them, actually they didn’t, but just complain about it.
 
If the sales ad doesn’t say it, assume they have the A hub on the prop which needs a 100 hour eddy current inspection. As noted above, fuel leaks are common but Mooney has a very specific guide on when to address them vs what is acceptable. Both of those have the scattershot panels and outdated avionics which will make IFR difficult. I’ve only heard the continentals have overheating issues and if you are overheating an E model, your baffles are shot or you did something wrong with the mixture. Depending on the damage history, it may save you a couple hours on annuals assuming a gear up as it gets you a one piece belly. No overhaul on the engine but 99 on the prop…not sure what that is about.
 
Would you rather have a C or an E model? Is the fuel injected better or the simplicity of the car?
 
Absolutely test sit/fly one before committing to it. When I was in the market for a faster plane and ended up buying the Comanche, I had a nice offer on a Mooney M20C. My mechanic loves Mooneys and he had one in annual that was up for sale. I put my wife, dog and myself in and it was tight. We’re not big (maybe the dog would be considered big) and it still was pretty tight.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
There’s more to a 201 than just the speed mods. Increased gear speeds, push-pull controls instead of throttle quadrant, generally better panels (AP was standard, annunciator), improved seats, modern yokes, etc.
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The early Js had the throttle quadrant.

Another factor in value is that insurance for retract will be a bit higher. Possibly a lot higher the first year for a low time pilot.
 
francisco collazos said:
Would you rather have a C or an E model? Is the fuel injected better or the simplicity of the car?
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they both have their advantages/disadvantages. There a lot of ADs on the fuel injection systems, but if they are all already resolved that might not matter much. Carb is simpler. You get more HP out of the FI. No chance of carb ice in FI. But I wouldn’t avoid the carb either.
 
I have an M20M Bravo. Great airplane, flies nice, lots of controls to push, pull, actuate or switch , but it goes from one place to another pretty quickly.
 
francisco collazos said:
I've been browsing the classified sections and I would love to purchase a mooney. I see a couple of these planes either M20c or e models with low time hours that seemed to be priced fairly low compared to cherokees, cessnas. Seems like these are very good deals but maybe i'm missing something. IDK i'd figure i'd ask you guys what you think.

this one has low hours but has been repaired.

this one has mid timed engine
Click to expand...
I own a E model they are a tighter in the back than a comparable cherokee/cessna, they are way faster and are honestly not that expensive to maintain. pull back on the throttle to fly at cessna/cherokee speed, you're probably burning less gas. up front they are slightly wider than a comparable cherokee / cessna but due to the roof being only a few inches from your head, it doesn't seem like it at first.

bad part, Insurance, it'll always be more expensive to insure than a comparable fixed gear plane, first time owner and low time, that first year will HURT. other than that, flying is good, stall is NOT trainer benign but not crazy.

so about the back seats, you can def fly with 3 or 4 people, my max has been 3 but that's because i'm always full fuel and never have load for anyone else. the front seats sit sports car like and slide ALL the way back, once they are in flying position, you get a good deal of room for backseaters. I'd think an hour for 4 would be okay, 3 people would probably be the sweet spot as the backseater would then have all the room they need.
 
I don’t mind push/pull at all but it isn’t an “upgrade” in my mind. It’s just different.
 
Bill said:
The quadrant is *great* for bashing knees when sliding across the cockpit.
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I "think" someone said the "201" went back to the push-pull. My '77 201 had a quadrant. The only thing I didn't like about it was that it flew like a dump truck.

OTOH, I also flew a '77 Bellanca Viking with controls like a fighter. What a treat!!
 
Plano Pilot said:
I thought they were quite nimble.
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They are, but…
They have a long wingspan, over 37’ with winglets…which makes for a slower roll rate. Also makes for a tight fit getting into a standard T hangar.
Also, they have springs on the elevators, so will return them to neutral position if you relax your hold.
Both of the above make them excellent cross country, IFR planes, but not aerobatic in any way.
One more thing, they don’t have a caster nose wheel, it has a limited turn radius, and that includes towing.
 
I thought ive seen some that didn't have the standard configuration with the throttle, prop, mixture.
 
Having just purchased an M20F, I believe that Mooneys are a fantastic value. Nothing (certificated anyway) touches them for speed and efficiency. However, my first year insurance is a bit.....heavy. I had no complex time, so there were some hoops to jump through before I could solo or carry passengers. Hopefully the second year insurance will be easier to stomach, but it is what it is.

Reasons I chose an 'F' model: Good useful load. Great range. Good speed. Useable back seat. And about 30% less than the comparable 'J' model. I DO think the 'J' is one of the best of breed aircraft, but the 'F' model comes close in speed, so down to the price point. For what I bought my 'F' for, I have room to do some avionics and install a new autopilot, when compared to a a similar time/equipment 'J' model.

I personally like the quadrant, but that's probably because I'm moving up from a Piper Cherokee that has similar controls.
 
The guy I checked out the C model, He thought the 180 was a bit underpowered for it, he really wished he had a the FI/200hp model.
His also had Electric gear. He had a bit bit of sticker shock at what a replacement gear motor cost, (or maybe it was a gear in the electric system) . He didn't need to replace it. I think it was one of those situations where the mechanic said it would need to replaced it soon. He told me he might convert it back to manual gear rather than repair the electric system. He ended up selling the plane and buying a K model.

1726498456096.png
Brian
 
I do like flying the E model I have access to. Great cross country airplane.
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The J model is nice for the larger back seat at the expense of being slightly slower.
1726498789690.png

I thought one of the nicest ones was the J Model with a Rayjay Turbo charger (Turbo Normalized)
But I never got a chance to fly that one.

Brian
 
francisco collazos said:
I've been browsing the classified sections and I would love to purchase a mooney. I see a couple of these planes either M20c or e models with low time hours that seemed to be priced fairly low compared to cherokees, cessnas. Seems like these are very good deals but maybe i'm missing something. IDK i'd figure i'd ask you guys what you think.

this one has low hours but has been repaired.

this one has mid timed engine
Click to expand...
I have an F with a lot of J upgrades and I love it. I've never been in a C or E but I have heard they are cramped in the back.
 
somewhere I got a pic of me in the back seat of an E, sitting behind someone 6'3". it was ok for a short time but yeah, a lil cramped. if u got a wife/gf/small kids it wouldn't be an issue.
 
They are a great value! I bought an F for same reasoning as @Darryl Snover- pretty much verbatim reasoning. I ended up doing a full tank reseal in the first year- it was an ouch moment but still less invested than 180hp Skyhawk would have cost me. I have a 1050 useful load, I fly it everywhere at about 8.5gph in the 130kt area- she’ll go faster if I burn more fuel. She’ll fly fine at 6gph too if im not in a hurry.

Their efficiency is unmatched in the certified world. On a fishing trip last year I burned a full 1/3 less fuel than my buddy’s 180hp Skyhawk! He was shocked that I left an hour n a half behind him, passed him headed into my first stop, his second. I’d burned 30 and he had burned 45. He was really bummed when I told him I only stopped as we thought we were staying the night there, that I wasn’t to half tanks yet and could have just made the destination. That fuel burn difference would cover a good chunk of insurance delta. 1/3 less fuel is huge over a year… fast and efficient often aren’t both part of a bird’s biography… but most planes as fast have significantly larger engines to do so.

The F is spacious in the back seat. Heck they even recline! But if you rarely have 4 ppl a C or E would be fine. Besides ingress and egress which is pretty much the same in all low wing she’s comfortable as my couch once in. I love the ergonomics of the seat and pedals. I did a 5.2 hr leg a few weeks ago and wasn’t fatigued at all from any seating discomfort- quite the opposite. Back to efficiency- 5.2 hr flight left full and I landed w 25 gallons on board! :) a three hour reserve!

They land like a kitten and they do not float if you can hold an air speed on final and don’t keep adding fudge factor knots.

They have a steel roll cage around the fuselage, means the world to me flying my family.

They are a great value, but like any bird deep dive before ya buy it. But a great bird at any price an even better bird considering their purchase price compared to others.
 
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