Mooney M20M Bravo

Mooney Bravo's are fast, that's for sure. They are turbo'd so be careful on the maintenance if you aren't familiar already. The catch is useful load/payload; you won't be getting much of it. Usually less than 1,000lbs and it depends on which configuration you get. If you get AC and/or TKS, it'll be less. Mooneys in general aren't known for their useful loads.

How many people and how much luggage do you plan to bring with you and how often do you plan to make these 700nm range trips? The best performance will be in the O2 levels, so take that into consideration as well.

Check out http://www.mooneyspace.com for all things Mooney related.
 
Ernesto Castro said:
Thanks LevelWing! I saw that about the useful load, anyway I'm planning on doing trips with my girlfriend for the weekend, so it is not a big issue. The idea is to have a plane for doing one weekend trip per month. I live in Houston, and possible trips are Santa Fe, Denver, Destin, etc.
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This is a good mission for the Mooney. If you plan to fly regularly into airports that have high density altitudes in the hotter months, the turbo will help alleviate the associated performance reductions.

Ernesto Castro said:
Also I heard that Mooneys are relative cheap to maintain, at least compared with Bonanzas, etc.
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This, like with any other plane, is often times relative. I've had really good luck with mine, but it has excellent bones and I take care of her. A thorough pre-buy is highly recommended but know that with a turbo comes additional maintenance.
 
PaulS said:
For you Mooney guys, how is part availability?
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I've never had any issues getting parts for mine outside of a rare one-off case. The factory is open and producing parts and the MooneySpace community is very active with a lot of knowledgeable people who know who to talk to and where to get parts if your local shop can't for some reason. Even for the older fleet, like mine, finding parts hasn't been overly difficult.
 
Question - is it an M20 Bravo or a M20B? The Bravo is the fast modern turbo charged airplane. The B is the 1961 model and an all metal version of the A. They only made 222 of them.

The Bravo is a 200k airplane unless it’s partial ownership, damaged, missing logs, etc. I would expect the B to be under 50, but I cannot remember the last time I saw one for sale.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Check out prop and engine 2 time (STOH) , 100 hours....that tells me it probably suffered a prop strike.
Which explains why its cheap.
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It’s priced right for a bravo, not cheap. Its fairly common to overhaul prop at the same time as the engine, so I’m not sure how you are taking a positive (fresh overhaul) and turning it into a negative.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Check out prop and engine 2 time (STOH) , 100 hours....that tells me it probably suffered a prop strike.
Which explains why its cheap.
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If it was repaired correctly and has all of the documentation and logs, I wouldn't necessarily automatically say no to a plane with a prop strike unless it's a personal requirement (no damage history).

Salty said:
It’s priced right for a bravo, not cheap. Its fairly common to overhaul prop at the same time as the engine, so I’m not sure how you are taking a positive (fresh overhaul) and turning it into a negative.
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I'm not speaking for @MooneyDriver78, but I don't think it's necessarily a negative. The prop being overhauled and the engine having a top overhaul at 100 hours would at least make me curious as to why it was done.

The link he posted doesn't show a Bravo for me so I can't see it. Are the logs attached to the listing?
 
Salty said:
It’s priced right for a bravo, not cheap. Its fairly common to overhaul prop at the same time as the engine, so I’m not sure how you are taking a positive (fresh overhaul) and turning it into a negative.
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From ad:

TIO-540-AF1B (Bravo Conversion)
~100 hrs STOH 6 new OEM Lycoming cylinders (temps stabilized,no leaks)
~450 SMOH (runs strong)
No issues

Why new cylinders and prop after 350 hours?

Logs available on request, but I don’t think you have to say why you did maintenance, just what you did.
 
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I’d ask some questions, read the logs, but you wouldn’t do a top overhaul for a prop strike.
 
Ernesto Castro said:
Also I heard that Mooneys are relative cheap to maintain, at least compared with Bonanzas, etc.
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Mooneys are airplanes, just like any other, and they have their issues. That said, I've had this one for 13 years now and I'm totally pleased with the robustness and reliability of the aircraft. This one is a keeper.

PaulS said:
For you Mooney guys, how is part availability?
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We've had no issues with parts availability, but to be honest, we really haven't needed all that much. It just doesn't break much.
 
Devil's advocate here....You are a newly minted pilot (12/2020). How many hours do you have? This is a lot of airplane for a new pilot. Lots of complex systems to control (big engine, turbo, fast, retractable gear, etc...etc...) I am not saying you can't do it. There have been lots of pilots who transition from their private to a fast, complex airplane and do just fine. I would have a discussion with your insurance agent prior to moving forward and just see what the insurance premium would be for you and an airplane like this.

This is a cross country plane. Designed to fly high and fast. I would recommend you also getting your instrument rating as soon as you can. You will find your flight completion rate to be better if you can handle the changes in weather along a long cross country flight. Not to mention that this airplane can get you above FL180 which you will need your instrument rating for anyways. To truly take advantage of an airplane like this, you need to utilize the turbo which really shows it's true colors when you fly high.

As far as the airplane itself goes, well, a lot of good advice has already been given. Good luck with your quest to find your perfect airplane.
 
Salty said:
I’d ask some questions, read the logs, but you wouldn’t do a top overhaul for a prop strike.
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It wouldn't be correct to do a top overhaul for a prop strike. That doesn't mean someone didn't do it. But there are people who believe overhauls aren't required for prop strikes and others who think you need one if you hit a blade of grass. Regardless, the question of prop strike is supposition.

The "why TOH at 350 hrs" question needs to be asked, but otherwise I don't think the price is completely out of line. It also looks like a private seller, so there's no broker fee that he has to pay out.

Higher price than I want to pay.
 
Some people find the Mooney cockpit a little tight, especially if you are big (over 6 feet - 210 lbs). Get you maintenance done at a Mooney savvy shop. If you check accident/incident data bases you might note Mooney's have a large number of "gear up - gear fail" landings. Easy remedy, the Mooney savvy shop that knows the gear retract mechanism adjustment SEQUENCE. If the adjustment sequence is followed on every annual, which it should, there is no problem. Also, consider an O2 system so you can go high.
 
As others said, I would recommend you at least sit in a Mooney. Their ergonomics are different and don't fit everyone well. I was interested in one until I sat in it. And interior dimension numbers do not tell the whole story. Otherwise, it does sound like it fits your mission quite well. There is a non-turbo Ovation if you don't want to fly high and deal with a turbo. No idea what those cost
 
genna said:
As others said, I would recommend you at least sit in a Mooney. Their ergonomics are different and don't fit everyone well. I was interested in one until I sat in it. And interior dimension numbers do not tell the whole story. Otherwise, it does sound like it fits your mission quite well. There is a non-turbo Ovation if you don't want to fly high and deal with a turbo. No idea what those cost
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This is true, and I believe the cabin width is from the widest point.

Height isn’t the issue, MS has 1 owner that’s 6’9”.

It’s shoulder room and low seating position.

If you can stagger the seats you’ll have plenty of shoulder room.

But the low sports car seating position you’ll either love it or hate it.
 
It will take quite a bit of transition time to get you up to speed in that much airplane. You'll need both complex and high performance endorsements. Also, your initial insurance bills will be eye-watering. Moreover, the aircraft is well nigh useless without the instrument rating. You can't use the turbo to get into the flight levels where the aircraft really shines without the IR. Indeed, I'd count on getting the IR as the first thing you do after you get signed off on the aircraft. All that said, it is doable. The long body Mooneys have useful load problems, but leave some fuel behind and you get lots of useful load. Some those things carry 100 gallons of gas. The autopilot is very old in the tooth, but if it works alls good. Nice thing is I think the Bravos qualify for the new Garmin autopilots, mine doesn't.

I completely agree with those saying to sit in one. They aren't for everyone.
 
Ernesto Castro said:
It's a M20 Bravo. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?listing_id=2376449. I mean, cheap, it's 170k, but anyway, it is a 1990 airplane, super fast, descent avionics, 450SMOH... I don't know, compared with a Saratoga is a no brainer.
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That's a high performance retract with $100k+ hull value and you're a recently minted private pilot (I assume no Instrument rating). You might want to get some insurance quotes before you get too far into the tire kicking process. The rates may surprise you.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
That's a high performance retract with $100k+ hull value and you're a recently minted private pilot (I assume no Instrument rating). You might want to get some insurance quotes before you get too far into the tire kicking process. The rates may surprise you.
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I would not be surprised if some simply said “not interested”.

In addition to your IR, better start thinking about a hangar. No hangar will drive up the insurance costs. And who wants to park a $170,000 plane outside?
 
Juliet Hotel said:
That's a high performance retract with $100k+ hull value and you're a recently minted private pilot (I assume no Instrument rating). You might want to get some insurance quotes before you get too far into the tire kicking process. The rates may surprise you.
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Very true, but assuming you continue your plans to get the IR and get time in type, that will come down substantially the next year.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
This is true, and I believe the cabin width is from the widest point.

Height isn’t the issue, MS has 1 owner that’s 6’9”.

It’s shoulder room and low seating position.

If you can stagger the seats you’ll have plenty of shoulder room.

But the low sports car seating position you’ll either love it or hate it.
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My specific issue was actually me being short. To reach the pedals I had to be so close to the panel that it was uncomfortable and quite claustrophobic. Though I understand that this can be mitigated with pedal "extenders". Also, can be something you get used to, I guess.
 
genna said:
My specific issue was actually me being short. To reach the pedals I had to be so close to the panel that it was uncomfortable and quite claustrophobic. Though I understand that this can be mitigated with pedal "extenders". Also, can be something you get used to, I guess.
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I installed the pedal extensions and it makes a vast difference.
 
Salty said:
I’d ask some questions, read the logs, but you wouldn’t do a top overhaul for a prop strike.
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bflynn said:
It wouldn't be correct to do a top overhaul for a prop strike. That doesn't mean someone didn't do it. But there are people who believe overhauls aren't required for prop strikes and others who think you need one if you hit a blade of grass. Regardless, the question of prop strike is supposition...
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+1 The question of a prop strike is supposition, and a "top overhaul" (whatever that might mean) isn't required.

But if it has had a prop strike, given it's Lycoming powered, there is a comprehensive mandatory service bulletin so I would suspect most sensible mechanics planning to sign off on the IRAN after a prop strike are going to avoid material deviations from it.

https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/SB533C Recommended Action for sudden Engine Stoppage, Propeller_Rotor Strike or Loss of Propeller_Rotor Blade or Ti (1).pdf
 
Salty said:
I installed the pedal extensions and it makes a vast difference.
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Do you have a link or a picture of these extensions. I looked for them one time but couldn't master my googling.
 
All I have are the engineering drawings. I took a couple of pics with my phone...

2021-03-24 13.01.34.jpg 2021-03-24 13.01.41.jpg
 
GRG55 said:
"top overhaul" (whatever that might mean)
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Cylinders and valves. You don't break the case open, it's just the things on top of the case. It is not an officially defined term.
 
bflynn said:
Cylinders and valves. You don't break the case open, it's just the things on top of the case. It is not an officially defined term.
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Can you inspect the crankshaft with the cylinders removed?
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Can you inspect the crankshaft with the cylinders removed?
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I’m no A&P, but assuming the crank needs to be inspected/tested for cracks, it would need to come out. Otherwise, the case covers the bearing journals (as do the attached connecting rods).

Stepping aside for the experts.
 
bflynn said:
...It is not an officially defined term.
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That was my point...it's undefined, so you actually don't know what was done when the description is "top overhaul".
Could be new cylinders, could be honed and new rings only, could be rebuilt cylinders with the valves and guides done, could be "reconditioned" cylinders, could be something else entirely.

It's a term that's thrown out there to sound like an airplane for sale had something valuable done to it. Might have, might not have.
 
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