Momentary overspeed Lycoming

DesertNomad

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DesertNomad
I had my engine heater on overnight and did a normal run up this morning with oil at 113°F. At 2000rpm I cycled the prop three times as usual and let it fall to somewhere between 1500-1600 before recovering normally. On application of full power for takeoff (11,000' runway) as it came up to speed it went over the 2400 limit and hit about 2520 for less than 2 seconds. I pulled back the throttle to let it fall to about 2000 and tried again, running it to full power where it hit 2500 for less than half a second. We then stopped and exited the runway.

I went back and did another runup and cycled the prop 4 times, letting it fall to about 1500 twice and to maybe 1300 twice. It recovered to 2000 normally. I then did a full power run up where it held at 2390 (where it should be) and did that twice, throttling back to 2000 in between. The takeoff was normal and 5 more takeoffs (after shutting down each time) today were also totally normal.

Lycoming says a monetary overspeed of 10% rated rpm or less for less than 3 seconds requires no maintenance or log entry and can happen when going from idle to full (such as in a go around). I think If I had left it at full power it would have stayed at the low 2500s but would not have comeback to 2400 without me doing something.

My thought is that my original run up did not really get the oil moving enough into the governor to make it limit as it should. It goes into annual Monday (3 hours flying to get there), so obviously I'll mention it to my mechanic. Just looking fore thoughts on the situation.

It has 10 quarts of oil and oil temperature and pressure remained normal.

Thanks.
 
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Why is it limited to 2400? The 540 in the Comanche is rated to 2575, and other airframes go even higher on the same engine. I would worry exactly 0 femtoseconds about it.
 
How sure are you that the tach is accurate? Could it have read higher than the engine actually was?
 
How sure are you that the tach is accurate? Could it have read higher than the engine actually was?

I have two tachs... an EI R-1 as primary (which is out of calibration and reads 50 rpm low - fixing that next week) and a JPI 830 which is spot-on according to an optical tach measurement we did a few weeks ago when we were trying to figure out which tach was reading wrong.

Both tachs said rpm was over 2400 though I only saw the red light from the E-1 as it is low on the panel and I was looking at the JPI as I throttled up for takeoff.
 
The propeller is the bigger concern. It's the most highly stressed part on the airplane, and centrifugal forces increae by 21% with a 10% increase in RPM. The prop manufacturer's have specs on overspeed limits.

You can overboost a turboed engine with a cold engine on takeoff, too. The wastegate is normally hydraulically operated and the cold oil is slow to bleed out of it. The oil's exit from the cylinder, not it's entrance, is controlled.
 
As stated above- no worries. When I went to the Reno Air Races with my son years ago, they were running 0-320’s (I know, different engine, but a Lycoming) at over 4500 RPM in one of the classes. I asked what mods they did to the engines and they all said nothing, they are superbly overbuilt and can handle the speed.
 
As stated above- no worries. When I went to the Reno Air Races with my son years ago, they were running 0-320’s (I know, different engine, but a Lycoming) at over 4500 RPM in one of the classes. I asked what mods they did to the engines and they all said nothing, they are superbly overbuilt and can handle the speed.
But they don't use the props that O-200s had in normal airplanes. They use tiny things that can take the RPM.
 
I prefer Planck time units. There are more Planck time units in a single second then there have been seconds in the last 13 billion years.
 
I prefer Planck time units. There are more Planck time units in a single second then there have been seconds in the last 13 billion years.

How many Planck time units are in a New Your Minute? Google didn't have a converter...
 
Planck is -44

that's right quick..


20120917125506-0_0.JPG
 
Wouldn't worry... What RPM do you think the aerobatic guys are spinning those Lycomings??? The guy that had my 540 Eagle before mw spun it 3500 with a M/T prop. The fixed prop Pitts guys see 3300 and that is very normal. My S1 was 3100rpm straight and level and at a high speed dive it saw lots more.
 
The "restriction" on your plane is likely related to certification horsepower - not prop or engine limitations. I know plenty of fixed pitch Grumman pilots who are more than happy to exceed 2700 RPM at WOT and never hurt a thing.
 
The "restriction" on your plane is likely related to certification horsepower
This is in fact the case with the Piper Dakota. I believe that Piper was considering a Dakota 2 without the restriction.
 
even if it were not just a horsepower based restriction, I surely hope a momentary excursion of 120 RPM up to what is still a relatively low RPM setting will not damage an engine..!

If you think about it.. what is it about very high RPMs that damages an engine anyway?
-valve float?
-piston inertia
-crankshaft stress
-oil pressure and circulation issues
-mag wear
-vacuum pump graphite failure
-etc

I'm not sure any of that is even possible in the relatively small engines of our planes until at least 4,000 to 5,000 RPM..
 
I'm not sure any of that is even possible in the relatively small engines of our planes until at least 4,000 to 5,000 RPM..

The engine in one of my motorcycles was engineered with a top RPM of 10k. It is rev limited at 8.5k. One can run it at redline all day with zero damage. :D
 
The engine in one of my motorcycles was engineered with a top RPM of 10k. It is rev limited at 8.5k. One can run it at redline all day with zero damage. :D
Nice! I imagine the cams are desmodromic? My brother's Ducati didn't have any valve springs so the RPM could get ridiculously high as well, but I forget the exact numbers
 
Nice! I imagine the cams are desmodromic?

Thank you for teaching me a new word. I do not believe they are or I likely would have already known it... :D It is a 1995 BMW K1100.
 
even if it were not just a horsepower based restriction, I surely hope a momentary excursion of 120 RPM up to what is still a relatively low RPM setting will not damage an engine..!

If you think about it.. what is it about very high RPMs that damages an engine anyway?
-valve float?
-piston inertia
-crankshaft stress
-oil pressure and circulation issues
-mag wear
-vacuum pump graphite failure
-etc

I'm not sure any of that is even possible in the relatively small engines of our planes until at least 4,000 to 5,000 RPM..
Like I said, the prop will likely fail first. And if it throws a blade, you're dead.
 
Seems like normal operation to me when the Throttle is moved rapidly.

Slowing Throttle movement should allow oil flow to handle pitch change.
 
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