Mogas Transport

Justin Brady

Justin Brady

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Feb 28, 2022
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Since I can burn Mogas in my IO-470K I'm trying to find the best way to transport it back and forth to the plane.
At the moment I'm stuck between getting a permanent mount tank for the back of the truck or building a little fuel trailer.

The truck tank is definitely easier, but my truck is a diesel so it's annoying to carry around a bunch of worthless fuel all the time when I don't need it.
The trailer alleviates that issue but then I have to pull a trailer around every time I go to the airport.

First world problems but I can't make up my mind.
Any input from the hive mind?
 
1000 pounds gross weight is the max limit to haul anything hazmat class 2 and 3 without placards and a hazmat CDL license.
So that only make the truck bed tank feasible unless you are hazmat licensed.
110 gals is the limit even with a aluminum tank in your truck bed. The weight of the pump and tank is included in the 1000 pounds gross weight.
No stationary storage tanks are made to move fuel full. The heads are not strong enough for hauling, made for stationary service only.
You can't afford a tank to haul fuel full on a highway on a trailer. Unless you go small like what you put in the bed of a truck. Also the total weight of the trailer would have to be under a 1000 pounds if no placards and hazmat CDLs.
There is a reason tank trailers cost $25K at Oshkosh or Sun N fun. And that was years ago before steel prices sky rocketed. Tank trailers are highly scrutinized by the DOT and rightfully so.

I am in the fuel business and own hazmat tanker trucks. Technically a tank in your pickup bed is only authorized to haul diesel fuel and not gasoline. So don't label it gasoline or flammable if you want to be left alone from the DOT enforcement officers.

I had this tank custom welded up at a local welding shop in 1993. This is the 3rd truck I have used it in. It is 11 ga steel and holds 95 gallons. I have hauled diesel, 87 gas, 91 gas and now 100LL in it. I bought some 100LL before the price went up this past May and hauled it in this tank.
Also no regular 12 volt fuel pump is made to fuel aircraft, just so you know...Be sure to use real braided fuel hose and the proper fuel nozzle that are grounded to protect against static sparks. And respect your hangar neighbors and always fuel your plane outside.
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Gary Ward said:
1000 pounds gross weight is the limit to haul anything hazmat class 2 and 3 without placards and a hazmat CDL license.
So that only make the truck bed tank feasible unless you are hazmat licensed.
110 gals is the limit even with a aluminum tank in your truck bed. The weight of the pump and tank is included in the 1000 pounds gross weight.
No stationary storage tanks are made to move fuel full. The heads are not strong enough for hauling, made for stationary service only.
You can't afford a tank to haul fuel full on a highway. There is a reason tank trailers cost $25K at Oshkosh or Sun N fun. And that was years ago before steel prices sky rocketed. Tank trailers are highly scrutinized by the DOT and rightfully so.

I am in the fuel business and own hazmat tanker trucks. Technically a tank in your pickup bed is only authorized to haul diesel fuel and not gasoline. So don't label it gasoline if you want to be left alone from the DOT enforcement officers.

I had this tank custom welded up at a local welding shop in 1993. This is the 3rd truck I have used it in. It is 11 ga steel and holds 95 gallons. I have hauled diesel, 87 gas, 91 gas and now 100LL in it. I bought some 100LL before the price went up this past May and hauled it in this tank.
Click to expand...

There are at least two manufacturers that claim gasoline DOT approved, RDS Manufacturing and Aluminum Tank Industries, probably others, both claim to have products that are DOT approved for transfer of diesel, methanol, ethanol, gasoline, etc.

https://www.jmesales.com/content/docs/RDS Manufacturing/rds_dot_permit.pdf

https://atitank.com/who-we-are/

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/documents/offer/SP14227.pdf/offerserver/SP14227

My 1979 Dodge D200 holds 36 gallons of gas in the ugliest and least crash resistant tanks I've seen in a land vehicle, second only to the FAA approved integral tanks that hold 48 gallons that are literally thin aluminum skins, probably sub 0.032" thick right above my shoulders between two wing spars.

This is an interesting read as well. https://www7.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/ph...aking/hazmat/interpretations/71531/190029.pdf
 
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Gary Ward said:
1000 pounds gross weight is the limit to haul anything hazmat class 2 and 3 without placards and a hazmat CDL license.
So that only make the truck bed tank feasible unless you are hazmat licensed.
110 gals is the limit even with a aluminum tank in your truck bed. The weight of the pump and tank is included in the 1000 pounds gross weight.
No stationary storage tanks are made to move fuel full. The heads are not strong enough for hauling, made for stationary service only.
You can't afford a tank to haul fuel full on a highway. There is a reason tank trailers cost $25K at Oshkosh or Sun N fun. And that was years ago before steel prices sky rocketed. Tank trailers are highly scrutinized by the DOT and rightfully so.

I am in the fuel business and own hazmat tanker trucks. Technically a tank in your pickup bed is only authorized to haul diesel fuel and not gasoline. So don't label it gasoline if you want to be left alone from the DOT enforcement officers.

I had this tank custom welded up at a local welding shop in 1993. This is the 3rd truck I have used it in. It is 11 ga steel and holds 95 gallons. I have hauled diesel, 87 gas, 91 gas and now 100LL in it. I bought some 100LL before the price went up this past May and hauled it in this tank.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain that the hazmat limitations do not apply for fuel hauled for personal use. DOT applies to commercial use.
 
Justin Brady said:
I'm fairly certain that the hazmat limitations do not apply for fuel hauled for personal use. DOT applies to commercial use.
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Not true, everything I said is fact.
I have been involved in hazmat training for many years and have been through many audits.
There is no personal exemption. You can fly under the radar like I have but there is no exemption. Those tanks are not meant to haul gasoline, I am sure. Neither is mine.
 
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Justin Brady said:
I'm fairly certain that the hazmat limitations do not apply for fuel hauled for personal use. DOT applies to commercial use.
Click to expand...

Commercial use is one thing, but Hazmat is Hazmat usually. The risk doesn't change because of the intended use. You may also check your based airport regulations as well. While the airport can not outright ban self fueling, they are permitted and encouraged by the FAA to regulate it. It is a safety issue, as a fuel spill and/or fire may impact others, not just your aircraft or hangar.
 
Is it annoying trying to get mogas away from your home airport? Sounds like it would be if you need to bring it by truck to your home field...
 
bnt83 said:
There are at least two manufacturers that claim gasoline DOT approved, RDS Manufacturing and Aluminum Tank Industries, probably others, both claim to have products that are DOT approved for transfer of diesel, methanol, ethanol, gasoline, etc.

https://www.jmesales.com/content/docs/RDS Manufacturing/rds_dot_permit.pdf

https://atitank.com/who-we-are/

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/documents/offer/SP14227.pdf/offerserver/SP14227

My 1979 Dodge D200 holds 36 gallons of gas in the ugliest and least crash resistant tanks I've seen in a land vehicle, second only to the FAA approved integral tanks that hold 48 gallons that are literally thin aluminum skins, probably sub 0.032" thick right above my shoulders between two wing spars.

This is an interesting read as well. https://www7.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/ph...aking/hazmat/interpretations/71531/190029.pdf
Click to expand...

I did not see anywhere in your links saying gas in OK to haul in there tanks. They only gave the hazmat classes and packing for shipping papers.
 
T Bird said:
Is it annoying trying to get mogas away from your home airport? Sounds like it would be if you need to bring it by truck to your home field...
Click to expand...
Yes but you can mix it with 100LL without issue. Since I'm at my home airport at least 50% of the time (more like 75 in reality) it saves a ton of money to save $2+ per gallon every fillup at home.
I just buy avgas when away from home.
 
They make a 29 gallon tank with wheels for boat fueling ,sells for about $575 .
 
Gary Ward said:
The tank can not be hauled on the highway legally with gasoline in it. That is my point. The manufacture says the tank can dispense gas but it is not legal to haul on the highway. I have specifically asked this more than once during audits with hazmat DOT auditors.
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I didn't see where the manufacturer said it couldn't be hauled on the highway, but I did see the instructions for mounting the tank in a truck bed. Why would the Department of Transportation be involved in certifying something that couldn't be transported?
 
Gary Ward said:
The tank can not be hauled on the highway legally with gasoline in it. That is my point. The manufacture says the tank can dispense gas but it is not legal to haul on the highway. I have specifically asked this more than once during audits with hazmat DOT auditors.
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I have reached out to the manufacturer for clarification.
Doesn't make any sense to say "DOT Certified for Gasoline" if it's not transportable. The DOT doesn't care what you store your gas in on your own property, only if it's on their highway system.
 
Justin Brady said:
I'm fairly certain that the hazmat limitations do not apply for fuel hauled for personal use. DOT applies to commercial use.
Click to expand...

You should be absolutely certain because you are correct. There may be other state statutes involved, but USDOT regulations apply ONLY to interstate commerce.
 
for the folks that burn Mogas.. I've yet to find a single airport that actually supplies this. Do you mostly fly to close by your home airports and tanker your gas everywhere? Do you relegate your flying to 300 nm or closer?

I love the idea of not burning avgas but how do you actually do real world cross country flying? That would be a lot of back and forth trips in the crew car with a 5 gallon jug

Or am I just the idiot and there's been mogas out there all along at these airports?
 
Conforming Mogas is increasingly rare to find at airports. When I had a qualifying STC engine, I could get Mogas at a nearby airport about 30 miles away, but they don't provide it anymore, either. Likely too little use, too much liability, too much cost to maintain another dedicated fuel tank. For XC trips you just pump what you find at your stops, usually 100LL only. At a metro airport it will likely be impossible to find Mogas.
 
Thanks, I did not realize you could go between the two
 
I had a truck tank for 25 years. I never found it to be a burden. I've never read anything about 1000#. Everything I found says <120 gallons doesn't require hazmat. When I had a 135 gallon tank the local bulk facility refused to fill it without the proper paperwork so I replaced it with a 110 gallon tank. Never another problem. But I never had any accidents that involved insurance. I'm pretty sure the chit would have hit the fan if there was ever a leak/spill or a fire.
 
Gary Ward said:
The tank can not be hauled on the highway legally with gasoline in it. That is my point. The manufacture says the tank can dispense gas but it is not legal to haul on the highway. I have specifically asked this more than once during audits with hazmat DOT auditors.
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Per the manufacturer (JME Tank) that tank is legal on the highway full of gasoline, which is what the DOT approval means. ( I sent them an email specifically asking)
Now I'm not sure on liability for Hazmat issues should you have an accident, but nothing illegal about having it in the truck full of gas.
 
After doing a little Googling, this is what I seem to have found.

For transportation of gasoline (diesel has different standards), DOT regulations (which most if not all states have adopted), you must use approved containers of no more than 5 gallons, and can not have more than 440 pounds total weight. That is probably why most truck bed manufacturers stipulate diesel or kerosene only.
 
Likely won't hold enough fuel for your needs but there are several under the truck bed type of tanks that are located in the spare tire area. Safe place to mount a tank, keeps eyes off of it, and the cost is quite reasonable. Downside is most are only 30 gallons or so ...
 
midwestpa24 said:
After doing a little Googling, this is what I seem to have found.

For transportation of gasoline (diesel has different standards), DOT regulations (which most if not all states have adopted), you must use approved containers of no more than 5 gallons, and can not have more than 440 pounds total weight. That is probably why most truck bed manufacturers stipulate diesel or kerosene only.
Click to expand...

Right, except manufacturers have a way of seeking a loophole and regulators granting them. That's why these manufacturers have sought special permits that are listed on their website.

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/documents/offer/SP14227.pdf/offerserver/SP14227
upload_2022-8-9_13-24-8.png
upload_2022-8-9_13-23-48.png

Aircraft manufacturers do the same thing when they want to do something contrary to regulation, they seek authorization via an Equivalent Level of Safety, a Special Condition, or petition for an Exemption.
upload_2022-8-9_12-44-54.png
 

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DOT regs are for commercial operators. They don’t apply to POVs.So says my local DOT, anyway. But heck, I have friends with 500 gallon fuel trailers and they don’t get stopped.
 
So we've established that it's 100% legal to use tanks from at least those two companies with exemptions with Gas on the highway.
(I've spoken to both companies to verify)

So now, can I mount one of those tanks on a trailer legally or does that change the situation?
 
Tantalum said:
for the folks that burn Mogas.. I've yet to find a single airport that actually supplies this. Do you mostly fly to close by your home airports and tanker your gas everywhere? Do you relegate your flying to 300 nm or closer?

I love the idea of not burning avgas but how do you actually do real world cross country flying? That would be a lot of back and forth trips in the crew car with a 5 gallon jug

Or am I just the idiot and there's been mogas out there all along at these airports?
Click to expand...
KRAC has it for 6.15 a gallon. Their 100LL is 6.90 a gallon. Kbuu has 100ll for 5.69 and is closer to me. So I have zero interest in spending 3k plus for the stc and fuel pump for the Cherokee to burn Mogas.

http://flyunleaded.com/mapusairports.html

Looks like there's 5 airports in California that carry it, but it's sparse out west
 
Racerx said:
KRAC has it for 6.15 a gallon. Their 100LL is 6.90 a gallon. Kbuu has 100ll for 5.69 and is closer to me. So I have zero interest in spending 3k plus for the stc and fuel pump for the Cherokee to burn Mogas.

http://flyunleaded.com/mapusairports.html

Looks like there's 5 airports in California that carry it, but it's sparse out west
Click to expand...

The point is you can get it at a local station for significantly less than the airport.
Right now where I am it's 6.85 for 100ll and the station down the road has 93 ethanol free for 3.90.
That's $189/tank cheaper for me. Flying several times a week it pays for itself very quickly.
In my plane the STC is cheap and no changes except stickers on the tanks.

Definitely not for everyone, but with gas prices dropping fast and avgas not moving yet at the moment it makes a lot of sense in my situation.
 
Justin Brady said:
The point is you can get it at a local station for significantly less than the airport.
Right now where I am it's 6.85 for 100ll and the station down the road has 93 ethanol free for 3.90.
That's $189/tank cheaper for me. Flying several times a week it pays for itself very quickly.
In my plane the STC is cheap and no changes except stickers on the tanks.

Definitely not for everyone, but with gas prices dropping fast and avgas not moving yet at the moment it makes a lot of sense in my situation.
Click to expand...

As you can imagine, the earlier you invested in a tank, the cheaper it was, and the faster it pays for itself.

Crazy times, I bought a brand new Superior Air Parts brand oil pump kit for a Lycoming O-320 @ $390.79 on April 20, 2020 and today that same kit from the same retailer is over $800.
 
Justin Brady said:
Yes but you can mix it with 100LL without issue. Since I'm at my home airport at least 50% of the time (more like 75 in reality) it saves a ton of money to save $2+ per gallon every fillup at home.
I just buy avgas when away from home.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. Definitely a great option if most flights are relatively local but if someone were hopping around the country the benefits would be mitigated a bit.
 
Justin Brady said:
The point is you can get it at a local station for significantly less than the airport.
Right now where I am it's 6.85 for 100ll and the station down the road has 93 ethanol free for 3.90.
That's $189/tank cheaper for me. Flying several times a week it pays for itself very quickly.
In my plane the STC is cheap and no changes except stickers on the tanks.

Definitely not for everyone, but with gas prices dropping fast and avgas not moving yet at the moment it makes a lot of sense in my situation.
Click to expand...

Do make sure what you are buying at the station is truly clean and ethanol free. Just because its labelled as such doesn't mean it hasn't been contaminated. The quality assurances on auto gas are next to nothing compared to aviation fuel.
 
Justin Brady said:
So we've established that it's 100% legal to use tanks from at least those two companies with exemptions with Gas on the highway.
(I've spoken to both companies to verify)

So now, can I mount one of those tanks on a trailer legally or does that change the situation?
Click to expand...


Yes - what about getting a tank that you can latch to a utility trailer when needed?
 
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Gary Ward said:
Also the total weight of the trailer would have to be under a 1000 pounds if no placards and hazmat CDLs.
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Then why aren't placards required when I ship 5 gallons (40lbs) of hazmat via LTL? Pretty sure you mean 1001 lbs of material and packaging, not material, packaging and trailer. I'm 100% percent sure those LTL trailers weigh more than 1000lbs empty.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Do make sure what you are buying at the station is truly clean and ethanol free. Just because its labelled as such doesn't mean it hasn't been contaminated. The quality assurances on auto gas are next to nothing compared to aviation fuel.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:

I purchase my 90 E-Free at a station near the airport. Been using them for many years. I check EVERY tank of fuel I purchase for the presence of water & debris. None found so far. A wise man once said "trust but verify" and that is my approach.

One airport in this state has Mogas available on the field but the cost is prohibitive at $6.42 vs $6.59 for the 100LL.
 
Daleandee said:
:yeahthat:

A wise man once said "trust but verify" and that is my approach.
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Who was that? Because if it is the geezer I am thinking of, he would be disowned by the current leaders.

Tim (sorry, could not resist)
 
Stewartb said:
DOT regs are for commercial operators. They don’t apply to POVs.So says my local DOT, anyway. But heck, I have friends with 500 gallon fuel trailers and they don’t get stopped.
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It wouldn’t be the getting stopped that would concern me. Someone runs a stop sign, hits their trailer w/500 gallons of gasoline, not sure they could find a good enough attorney. Especially if they were hauling it to their airplane. :eek:
 
tspear said:
Who was that? Because if it is the geezer I am thinking of, he would be disowned by the current leaders.

Tim (sorry, could not resist)
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You're thinking of the guy from the land of fruits & nuts. He used it but it came from Russia ...
 
Mxfarm said:
It wouldn’t be the getting stopped that would concern me. Someone runs a stop sign, hits their trailer w/500 gallons of gasoline, not sure they could find a good enough attorney. Especially if they were hauling it to their airplane. :eek:
Click to expand...

Would be even worse if the guy with the 500 gallons of fuel was the one who ran into the SUV with the children in it ... :oops:
 
EdFred said:
Then why aren't placards required when I ship 5 gallons (40lbs) of hazmat via LTL? Pretty sure you mean 1001 lbs of material and packaging, not material, packaging and trailer. I'm 100% percent sure those LTL trailers weigh more than 1000lbs empty.
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Yes are correct and I was wrong about the trailer being included.

If it is integral installation then the weigh of the trailer could be included like the tanks on our tanker trucks, gray zone there, IMO.

1001 pounds and more of class 3 material require placards, hazmat CDL, medical card and documented training is required. That is generally around 119 gallons including the weight of the tank and pump. This why you don't see larger portable tanks for sale. And more gallons than that require a reinforced tank to hold up to highway use.
 
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Gary Ward said:
Yes are correct and I was wrong about the trailer being included.

If it is integral installation then the weigh of the trailer could be included like the tanks on our tanker trucks, gray zone there, IMO.

1001 pounds and more of class 3 material require placards, hazmat CDL, medical card and documented training is required. That is generally around 119 gallons including the weight of the tank and pump. This why you don't see larger portable tanks for sale. And more gallons than that require a reinforced tank to hold up to highway use.
Click to expand...

So the solution is a snowmobile trailer with the tank inside, so the DOT has no reason to stop you. :D
 
Daleandee said:
Would be even worse if the guy with the 500 gallons of fuel was the one who ran into the SUV with the children in it ... :oops:
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While it would be worse, the driver/owner can control that. It’s those things you can’t control and your not suppose to be even on the road, would make you wish you weren’t.
 
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