Mogas Fuel Truck?

[Henning]

If you are buying >100 gallons at time, it's easy to call up the local fuel supplier and get it delivered alcohol free. If you can order a full chamber from their truck, you'll get a really good deal.

 

[timwinters]

What I do know is that every station I know of around here that sells ethanol-free gas only sells it in 91 octane.

It's the same way here, ethanol-free is always premium gas, either 91 or 93. Here it's because Mo law only requires 10% ethanol in regular and mid-grade so the only gas that can legally be sold without is premium.

There used to be quite a few stations in this area that sold no-ethanol premium until they started sending "sub-grade" gas up the pipeline**. Now the only stations selling it are those who've converted their diesel system because the market in their area for no-ethanol was greater than that for diesel. Fortunately, one of those stations is quite convenient for me to stop by when I'm in town running other errands.

**that story here.

 

[Henning]

It's the same way here, ethanol-free is always premium gas, either 91 or 93. Here it's because Mo law only requires 10% ethanol in regular and mid-grade so the only gas that can legally be sold without is premium.

There used to be quite a few stations in this area that sold no-ethanol premium until they started sending "sub-grade" gas up the pipeline**. Now the only stations selling it are those who've converted their diesel system because the market in their area for no-ethanol was greater than that for diesel. Fortunately, one of those stations is quite convenient for me to stop by when I'm in town running other errands.

**that story here.

Is the price differential between the cheapest and alcohol free gasoline more than 10%?

 

[RJM62]

It's the same way here, ethanol-free is always premium gas, either 91 or 93. Here it's because Mo law only requires 10% ethanol in regular and mid-grade so the only gas that can legally be sold without is premium.

There used to be quite a few stations in this area that sold no-ethanol premium until they started sending "sub-grade" gas up the pipeline**. Now the only stations selling it are those who've converted their diesel system because the market in their area for no-ethanol was greater than that for diesel. Fortunately, one of those stations is quite convenient for me to stop by when I'm in town running other errands.

**that story here.

Ah, okay. That makes sense.

On a non-aviation note, I may try the ethanol-free in my car this winter as soon they switch to the "winter blend" fuel in the corn-laced. I lose 10 percent of MPG on winter blend, which also costs more than the summer stuff. Between the increased BTU and the absence of corn, it might actually be cheaper to use the ethanol-free 91. My newer car has a computer that displays MPG, so I'd know right away.

Rich

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

You lose some MPG in the winter regardless. The cold air is more dense. The computer in your car measures the air density and use it to trim the fuel flow to maintain it's fuel/air ratio. So more dense air will always require more fuel to maintain the proper ratio. Some of this is offset by the fact that you also produce more power and require less pedal mashing to move the car. But consumption will go up none the less.

 

[RJM62]

You lose some MPG in the winter regardless. The cold air is more dense. The computer in your car measures the air density and use it to trim the fuel flow to maintain it's fuel/air ratio. So more dense air will always require more fuel to maintain the proper ratio. Some of this is offset by the fact that you also produce more power and require less pedal mashing to move the car. But consumption will go up none the less.

Yeah, all that plus more use of the headlights, the heater blower, and running the A/C compressor for the defroster consuming power at the crank; the increased roll resistance from the winter tires; extra weight from the snow piled on the roof; and probably a dozen other things.

But it's the winter fuel, too. The day they make the switcheroo, I lose 10 percent. They day they switch back in the spring, I get the 10 percent back. This has happened every year, in every car I've owned, without fail.

-Rich

 

[N801BH]

Yeah, all that plus more use of the headlights, the heater blower, and running the A/C compressor for the defroster consuming power at the crank; the increased roll resistance from the winter tires; extra weight from the snow piled on the roof; and probably a dozen other things.

But it's the winter fuel, too. The day they make the switcheroo, I lose 10 percent. They day they switch back in the spring, I get the 10 percent back. This has happened every year, in every car I've owned, without fail.

-Rich

Personally,,,, I unplug the connector to my AC compressor every winter.. The air needed to defrost is hot air blown through the heater coil... The AC doesn't do squat....

 

[Henning]

Personally,,,, I unplug the connector to my AC compressor every winter.. The air needed to defrost is hot air blown through the heater coil... The AC doesn't do squat....

It dries the air before it gets to the heater core, in your neighborhood it's not a factor. In the NE humid winter near freezing, it makes a difference especially before the engine warms up fully and warms the windshield.

 

[RJM62]

Personally,,,, I unplug the connector to my AC compressor every winter.. The air needed to defrost is hot air blown through the heater coil... The AC doesn't do squat....

In theory it dries the air a bit to aid the defrosting. I have my doubts. I may disconnect it this winter.

Rich

 

[RJM62]

It dries the air before it gets to the heater core, in your neighborhood it's not a factor. In the NE humid winter near freezing, it makes a difference especially before the engine warms up fully and warms the windshield.

I suppose right around freezing, that makes sense. If it's a lot colder than that, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Rich

 

[Henning]

In theory it dries the air a bit to aid the defrosting. I have my doubts. I may disconnect it this winter.

Rich

I put a switch on mine typically in your climate.

 

[JOhnH]

Personally,,,, I unplug the connector to my AC compressor every winter.. The air needed to defrost is hot air blown through the heater coil... The AC doesn't do squat....

That doesn't work worth a damn here in humid Florida.

 

[N801BH]

That doesn't work worth a damn here in humid Florida.

Ha.... I spent the first 30 years of my life in Coral Gables......

Truth is.... I always drove junk cars to save money and only got a new vehicle a few years back.. Until then, I NEVER owned one with AC....

The reason I removed the wire to the AC compressor was, the first winter I owned my Tundra , I was sitting at a light in town and I felt the AC compressor kick on... And it was -32f outside.. WTF ... I pulled to side of the road and pulled the wire off thinking the ECU was confused......

 

[JHW]

the best way to ensure freon leaks come summer is to not have the compressor operate at all for a long winter.

 

[denverpilot]

the best way to ensure freon leaks come summer is to not have the compressor operate at all for a long winter.

True.

But it's getting more and more unlikely it'll be Freon(TM) that's leaking.

 

[N801BH]

the best way to ensure freon leaks come summer is to not have the compressor operate at all for a long winter.

...

I will let ya know... So far, the truck is 10 years old and holding a charge perfectly....

 

[Ted]

...

I will let ya know... So far, the truck is 10 years old and holding a charge perfectly....

I'm assuming you're referring to your Toyota pickup I saw when I came by a few years ago? Japanese factory AC seems to last a long time before the first failure.

 

[dell30rb]

I'm assuming you're referring to your Toyota pickup I saw when I came by a few years ago? Japanese factory AC seems to last a long time before the first failure.

My acura is rolling over 225,000 miles. Been in the family since new. Never touched the A/C system. Working great.

Had to replace a blower motor controller and a rear heater core though.

 

[dell30rb]

If you have a lot of airplanes in the area that can use auto gas, it might be worth it to do a permanent setup where you have xxx gallons delivered.

What is tough with mogas, is how long it lasts. You would want to make sure you used up each delivery of fuel within 6 months max, maybe less. Since you could be liable for fuel contamination, you would need insurance and probably some inspections etc..

My vote is for a personal trailer.

 

[AuntPeggy]

If you have a lot of airplanes in the area that can use auto gas, it might be worth it to do a permanent setup where you have xxx gallons delivered.

What is tough with mogas, is how long it lasts. You would want to make sure you used up each delivery of fuel within 6 months max, maybe less. Since you could be liable for fuel contamination, you would need insurance and probably some inspections etc..

My vote is for a personal trailer.

I guess that is why nobody is doing it.

 

[Geico266]

I guess that is why nobody is doing it.

There are 118 FBOs carry mogas in the US according to AIRNAV. EAA has done many studies and has good recommendations for using mogas in airplanes. Experimentals have been burning it for decades.

 

[Geico266]

If you have a lot of airplanes in the area that can use auto gas, it might be worth it to do a permanent setup where you have xxx gallons delivered.

What is tough with mogas, is how long it lasts. You would want to make sure you used up each delivery of fuel within 6 months max, maybe less. Since you could be liable for fuel contamination, you would need insurance and probably some inspections etc..

My vote is for a personal trailer.

My vote is for a personal trailer also.

You don't need to use it all up in 6 months. Just add fresh fuel every month (or 100ll) or so and you will keep the octane levels acceptable. Mogas loses 1 -3 octane point per month under certain circumstances. I've used it for 15 years now, just fly a lot and don't worry about it.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I guess that is why nobody is doing it.

I have flown 40+ hours in the last 4 months with mogas from 5 gallon cans, hasn't been too big of a pain in the _ss.

Saving the $2/gallon x 13 gph x 40 hours has save the $1000 that will cost for a nicer setup (fuel tank with 12v pump) if I want it.

I think a smaller, personal solution is likely incentive enough for you to do your own setup.

 

[Geico266]

I have flown 40+ hours in the last 4 months with mogas from 5 gallon cans, hasn't been too big of a pain in the _ss.

Saving the $2/gallon x 13 gph x 40 hours has save the $1000 that will cost for a nicer setup (fuel tank with 12v pump) if I want it.

I think a smaller, personal solution is likely incentive enough for you to do your own setup.

Nice!

Another nice bonus of having a fuel trailer is you have a bunch of fuel if there is an emergency. Prepping is never a bad thing... In moderation.

 

[pilot_dude]

I really don't know. It's what I was told by someone who seems to understand this sort of thing. But again, his information could be out of date. He's been retired for a while.

What I do know is that every station I know of around here that sells ethanol-free gas only sells it in 91 octane. The most recent company to offer it is Mirabito, which is a regional company with quite a few stations up here, and they sell only the 91 as ethanol-free. I don't know whether this is because they figure that people who want ethanol-free want it in the 91, or because the 91 is ethanol-free to begin with. Maybe it depends on the vendor.

Rich

I can purchase uncontaminated fuel at 87 or 91 octane

 

[pilot_dude]

the best way to ensure freon leaks come summer is to not have the compressor operate at all for a long winter.

 

[AuntPeggy]

There are 118 FBOs carry mogas in the US according to AIRNAV. EAA has done many studies and has good recommendations for using mogas in airplanes. Experimentals have been burning it for decades.

Are any in the Tulsa area?

 

[JoseCuervo]

This would even work, for $190 from Amazon....

Benefit is the pump works either direction. You could siphon out excess fuel when loading more passengers/crap.

Two Way Rotary Pump - Siphon Or Dispense Fuels Using The Same Pump
Easy To Read Fill Level Gauge - Know Exactly How Much Room Is There Available In Your Tank
Safety: Ground Wire And Clamp
Fire-screened Vent And Filler Neck Combo
Convenient : 6-1/2" x 1-3/4" Solid Tires

 

[oldShar]

Are any in the Tulsa area?

Here are some that I came up with:
(1st one is from AirNav -- says FBO provided. Others are off airport stations):
(off site from pure-gas.org)
(airports: TUL, RVS, 1H6)

 

[jesse]

Personally,,,, I unplug the connector to my AC compressor every winter.. The air needed to defrost is hot air blown through the heater coil... The AC doesn't do squat....

I've had AC compressor failures in the winter in the midwest and the defrost doesn't work worth a ****. So much humidity. I've actually REPLACED an AC compressor in January before so my defrost would work right.

I'm sure it's by far more dry where you are...but in the midwest...it doesn't work so well sometimes.

 

[JHW]

My vote is for a personal trailer also.

You don't need to use it all up in 6 months. Just add fresh fuel every month (or 100ll) or so and you will keep the octane levels acceptable. Mogas loses 1 -3 octane point per month under certain circumstances. I've used it for 15 years now, just fly a lot and don't worry about it.

Octane (a misnomer in its own right) doesn't change in any meaningful way. What you lose is the ease of vaporization (engine starting) and it varnishes.

 

[Bill]

My vote is for a personal trailer also.

You don't need to use it all up in 6 months. Just add fresh fuel every month (or 100ll) or so and you will keep the octane levels acceptable. Mogas loses 1 -3 octane point per month under certain circumstances. I've used it for 15 years now, just fly a lot and don't worry about it.

The other nice thing about mogas is....wait for it.......it works in your cars! No problem with keeping the gas in the trailer fresh, just pump it into your cars when you're not flying much.

 

[Henning]

The other nice thing about mogas is....wait for it.......it works in your cars! No problem with keeping the gas in the trailer fresh, just pump it into your cars when you're not flying much.

If you have a 1000 or even 500 gallon tank, you can save money year round filling off it.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

I remember, back in the 80's, a FBO at Torrance, CA that just had a fuel truck on the field. No tank farm or other storage. They drove it off field to get the truck refueled. I'm not sure if today's regulations would allow something like that.

 

[Geico266]

I remember, back in the 80's, a FBO at Torrance, CA that just had a fuel truck on the field. No tank farm or other storage. They drove it off field to get the truck refueled. I'm not sure if today's regulations would allow something like that.

Why not?

It is amazing to me that people let the perceived regulations and "liability" stand in the way of innovation.

It is always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

[Henning]

I remember, back in the 80's, a FBO at Torrance, CA that just had a fuel truck on the field. No tank farm or other storage. They drove it off field to get the truck refueled. I'm not sure if today's regulations would allow something like that.

From either Torrance or Long Beach, you're only a few miles from the biggest 'rack' on the west coast. One of my partner's dad was in the gas station business so we would just fill right down the road, wasn't 3 miles to the tank farm, don't need more than tankers.

 

[Henning]

Why not?

It is amazing to me that people let the perceived regulations and "liability" stand in the way of innovation.

It is always better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Non Commercial <26,000 lbs no CDL, might need HAZMAT depending on the state, I already have Hazwhopper. I never got pulled over regardless. Insurance was not a big number.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I remember, back in the 80's, a FBO at Torrance, CA that just had a fuel truck on the field. No tank farm or other storage. They drove it off field to get the truck refueled. I'm not sure if today's regulations would allow something like that.

Full circle. That is the idea I started this thread with. I wonder how to find out where it could be filled. Probably not too far. This is Oklahoma, after all.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Here are some that I came up with:
(1st one is from AirNav -- says FBO provided. Others are off airport stations):
(off site from pure-gas.org)
(airports: TUL, RVS, 1H6)

There is no mogas at Harvey Young (1H6), Tulsa (TUL) or Riverside (RVS) airports. I'd be surprised to see it at the hospital heliport, and they'd be surprised to see me try to land there. That leaves me with driving to a gas station. Thanks for looking it up.

 

[Geico266]

The other nice thing about mogas is....wait for it.......it works in your cars! No problem with keeping the gas in the trailer fresh, just pump it into your cars when you're not flying much.

Exactly.