MOA NOR*

[dfw11411]

Question about MOAs. See the image below, the floor of the Brady NOR* drops to about 2,000 AGL while the other MOAs are about 4-5,000 AGL. While I know that I can fly through an MOA, ATC really doesn't like it this part of the country and I prefer to avoid MOAs. What is a "NOR*" ? Or is it just a identifying name with no meaning? It does seem odd that it creates a low altitude barrier between all the other MOAs.

 

[Racerx]

Shorthand for north. MOA Brady north

 

[dfw11411]

Thanks. So obvious!

 

[masloki]

ATC really doesn't like it this part of the country

What are you saying here - signal won’t reach or they don’t offer flight following? In my decade plus of flying most of the Midwest, when you query ATC if the MOA is hot, they have 100% answered this question. 100% of the time they also said not hot or cold. I did hear a MOA going active near Kansas City Monday morning, so it seems I have just been very lucky in not having to deviate around them.

 

[dfw11411]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Yes, ATC is always very helpful. When a MOA is hot they seem to regard it as if it were a TFR. They really don't want us interfering with military pilot training. I'm fine with that. If I'm using Flight Following (and I always do) they will direct me to alter course to avoid the active MOA or advise me it is cold so that I can fly through it. And when another aircraft that is not communicating with ATC is entering an active MOA the controllers advise the military pilots of the intruder. Personally, I never want to tell ATC that I'm flying through an active MOA regardless of their instructions!

My original question was whether NOR* signifies something special about a uniquely shaped MOA. Obviously it doesn't. I still don't understand why this long narrow MOA with a floor that's lower than the adjacent MOAs exists, but it doesn't matter. Just was curious.

 

[RussR]

Question about MOAs. See the image below, the floor of the Brady NOR* drops to about 2,000 AGL while the other MOAs are about 4-5,000 AGL. While I know that I can fly through an MOA, ATC really doesn't like it this part of the country and I prefer to avoid MOAs. What is a "NOR*" ? Or is it just a identifying name with no meaning? It does seem odd that it creates a low altitude barrier between all the other MOAs.
View attachment 126322

Although the question has been answered, do realize that the aeronautical layer overlays on the sectional chart that you're looking at here are formatted by the EFB provider itself, not the FAA or the regulations, nor will you find what "NOR*" means in the Aeronautical Chart User's Guide, because it's created by the EFB designer - in this screenshot, Foreflight Web. Foreflight Mobile spells out "North" and interestingly formats the altitudes as 3600-18000 instead of 17999. (Things like this have often made me wonder about standardization between the FF Web crew and the FF Mobile crew).

 

[RussR]

What are you saying here - signal won’t reach or they don’t offer flight following? In my decade plus of flying most of the Midwest, when you query ATC if the MOA is hot, they have 100% answered this question. 100% of the time they also said not hot or cold. I did hear a MOA going active near Kansas City Monday morning, so it seems I have just been very lucky in not having to deviate around them.

Come on down to this part of the world. The Vance MOAs northwest of OKC and the Sheppard and Westover MOAs to the southwest are pretty much active sunrise to sunset M-F. And they're big. Fortunately for most light GA airplanes, the bases start at 8, 9, or 10,000, so it's relatively easy to go under them if going around them is inconvenient.

 

[BillTIZ]

What you are not seeing is the Brady Low MOAs to the south are 500AGL to 5,999MSL. The Brady High MOA which you depict is 6,000MSL to 17,999MSL. The Brady North (NOR*) is 3,600MSL to 17,999MSL. Yes, the Brownwood MOAs to the north are 7,000MSL to 17,999MSL. You are not depicting the cutouts around 81R and BBD that allow a 0-1500AGL corridor around the airports to transition in and out of the Brady Low MOA.

I would need to look at the history of the Brownwood MOAs to the north. At one time they may also have had a floor of 500ft AGL. Providing the corridor of the Brady North MOA with a floor at 3,600MSL allowed GA aircraft to transition east and west through the combined Brady and Brownwood MOAs. I agree, with Brownwood now at 7,000MSL and above, the Brady North does not make sense.

Please remember, yes you can transition a MOA, it is "joint use". Once you are in the MOA, the military needs to call a "knock it off" until you are sorted and on a known course and altitude. Depending on the military training mission and your altitude, they may continue and restrict their operations above or below your altitude. Your tax dollars at work, enter the MOA and spend a few more tax dollars while they cancel their training.

 

[Half Fast]

Your tax dollars at work, enter the MOA and spend a few more tax dollars while they cancel their training.

If I remain out of an MOA, can I take a deduction on my tax return? Let's see, I stayed out of MOAs for 365 days in 2023, so......

 

[Velocity173]

They didn’t cancel training in our MOAs back in the day. There was no procedure to stop training simply because a VFR was transiting the area. I used to work MOA control and give FF. Now a days, most facilities won’t work a VFR through the MOA. Weak. You have just as much chance as hitting a jet on a VR route as you do a MOA.

 

[Pinecone]

They just call out the traffic and once the military aircraft has a visual, they keep flying, and just try to not hit you.

But remember, there are low time solo pilots out there in those MOAs.

 

[BillTIZ]

They just call out the traffic and once the military aircraft has a visual, they keep flying, and just try to not hit you.

But remember, there are low time solo pilots out there in those MOAs.

I'm used to the Western MOAs, north of Las Vegas. Normally you could have up to 100 aircraft in the MOA on an exercise. 500AGL and 540knts or higher. Granted, the Bones are not doing low level ingress any more.

 

[Velocity173]

B-1s used to do some of the best attacks during our semi annual MOAs. Crappy pics but I took them standing on the balcony at the barracks.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Yes, ATC is always very helpful. When a MOA is hot they seem to regard it as if it were a TFR. They really don't want us interfering with military pilot training.

It may be more than that. Some years ago, I had the opportunity to fly with a pilot on a night flight from Santa Monica to Inyokern. VFR flight following. Being night, we could see the activity in the MOAs.

Pilot: Joshua Approach, do you know what they're doing?​

Joshua Approach: They're not talking to me.​

Hot MOA can simply mean ATC doesn't know what they are doing within it and can't guarantee IFR separation.