Minimum hours per year for Instrument proficiency

[zaitcev]

I'm considering getting an IR for an improvement in travel reliability. It was a while since I got stuck for weather, but in some instances I hit just the right day for a gap in weather systems. One concern that I'm having is that I'm not flying all that much: about 60 to 70 hours a year. So, leaving aside an ability to knock out 2 arcs, 2 holds, and 2 approaches every 6 months, how low can an average GA pilot go?

For VFR, I came to think that beginners need to make 50 hours for a few years, and thereafter at least 35 hours. When they make those 35, it's at least half simple practice and landings. Seems like flying in IMC should be at least twice as hard, right?

 

[Ventucky Red]

Plus, you file IFR, you'll never bust Class B airspace..

 

[Hank S]

Plus, you file IFR, you'll never bust Class B airspace..

You're right, Approach just vectors me way the hell away from it, while VFR it's simply "stay out of the Bravo" [direct quote from ATL Approach], but I don't have to go 20nm away to the penalty box before rounding the corner like I do when IFR.

 

[Ventucky Red]

You're right, Approach just vectors me way the hell away from it, while VFR it's simply "stay out of the Bravo" [direct quote from ATL Approach], but I don't have to go 20nm away to the penalty box before rounding the corner like I do when IFR.

In Los Angeles sometimes they'll vector you through it... there is a TEC route right over LAX as there is a VFR Special Flight Rule corridor too.. Similar situation in the NYC area once when I flew from Philly Northeast to McArthur on Long Island they vectored me through right along the coast.... but, it was one of those sever clear days and I was in a 172 Stretch Heavy Oh, this was way before 911.... doubt that will happen today

 

[MauleSkinner]

Trading safety pilot time is great, but build/keep a relationship with a good instructor that allows you to be comfortable calling him or her up and saying, “I need a little instruction based on this experience that I had.”

I’d probably even go so far as recommending an IPC annually, regardless of your currency.

 

[WannFly]

Some people are ok with doing flight reviews every 2 years, some people do every year and others do every 6 months. There is always something to learn or sharpen. If I am putting my loved one in a plane and punching through those white stuff, I better be proficient and how long and hard and often you need to train to be proficient, well that depends on the individual. Don’t think you can put a generic number around it.

 

[chemgeek]

Just use the system frequently when you fly, and get an IPC every 6 months when you don't log enough approaches to qualify on your own. Having a current IR improves options when flying MVFR, and is a great safety boon. There is no magic number of hours. There are hours and then there are hours.

 

[Clip4]

If you are occasionally flying IFR, you need a through IPC twice a year unless you are setting 700-2 as you minimums.

 

[mtuomi]

Depends what kind of IFR we are talking about. Punching through a marine layer, probably not much. Flying the published missed off KASE VOR/DME-C, probably much more.

 

[Rgbeard]

Depends what kind of IFR we are talking about. Punching through a marine layer, probably not much. Flying the published missed off KASE VOR/DME-C, probably much more.

COOL! That approach looks like FUN! Not many "Dual VHF required" procedures out there. Thanks for sharing this one.

 

[thomasdr72]

In the beginning, set your personal minimums to your comfort level. I would say that most "regular" GA pilots don't use their instrument skills much beyond the "marginal VFR" level. Right after your checkride, getting out and actually practicing your IFR skills in real-world scenarios is a great thing (but set your personal mins according to your experience level). The more you fly, the better you will get at determining for yourself what a real level of safety is.

The good news is, that in most of the country--Low IFR conditions aren't that prevalent. In the 10 years that I've had my cloud card, I've used my judgement and decision making skills to keep myself out of scenarios that would require me to shoot an approach to minimums in the real world. However, each time I have an instructor or safety pilot on board, I don't cheat --I shoot every approach to the minimums! Also, if you have access to a good simulator, take the opportunity to shoot approaches to conditions where you might not see the runway!

When you are practicing with your safety pilot, give them a chance to tell you that you didn't see the runway and go missed... Make your training matter, so that you have confidence in your abilities when (and if) you need to use them in the soup! In instrument rating is a great "tool" and use it smartly to give you more options than you had when you were strictly a VFR guy... Take the opportunity to use that tool to make your life better! IFR in busy airspace, that's a no-brainer! IFR in/out of the Washington D.C. SFRA--also a no-brainer!

Flying VFR local around the patch is how you take family out for airplane ride. But serious cross-country flying should always be considered an IFR option when equipment and conditions warrant. Stay out of convective storms, etc.

I'm happy flying single-engine in the clouds, over water, in the dark, over mountains, etc... But I try NOT to CROSS THE STREAMS --it just unnecessarily increases your risk exposure. Never say never, but don't do it unless you give due consideration to the risks involved...

What's the simple answer? Fly as much as you can, and be conservative with your risk exposure!

Cheers!

-Dana

 

[sarangan]

I'm considering getting an IR for an improvement in travel reliability. It was a while since I got stuck for weather, but in some instances I hit just the right day for a gap in weather systems. One concern that I'm having is that I'm not flying all that much: about 60 to 70 hours a year. So, leaving aside an ability to knock out 2 arcs, 2 holds, and 2 approaches every 6 months, how low can an average GA pilot go?

For VFR, I came to think that beginners need to make 50 hours for a few years, and thereafter at least 35 hours. When they make those 35, it's at least half simple practice and landings. Seems like flying in IMC should be at least twice as hard, right?

Simulators today a very realistic, especially if you get VR goggles and a decent setup. Even if it is not loggable, you will be proficient.

 

[labbadabba]

Simulators today a very realistic, especially if you get VR goggles and a decent setup. Even if it is not loggable, you will be proficient.

VR goggles aren't great for IFR training. Too much head down time and you need to reference your materials. VR sims are a total blast tho.

 

[sarangan]

VR goggles aren't great for IFR training. Too much head down time and you need to reference your materials. VR sims are a total blast tho.

I've done a lot of IFR with VR goggles, and will never go back to a regular screen. There are ways to get charts into the VR cockpit, and ways to manipulate the avionics. Its not impossible to setup, but it does take some work, but the rewards are totally worth it.

 

[neilki]

Red Bird sims are pretty good if you are near a flight school. You get a lot of bang for the buck.

>This>
Take a couple of hours every month or every time you visit the airport to sit with a CFII in the sim. Theres huge value to keeping current this way, and it's a fraction of what the aircraft would cost.

 

[RussR]

So, leaving aside an ability to knock out 2 arcs, 2 holds, and 2 approaches every 6 months,

I'm curious as to which country's currency requirements these are (I mean, they're not the U.S. requirements, but I assume you didn't just make up the numbers, so they must be from somewhere).

 

[tsts4]

If you are occasionally flying IFR, you need a through IPC twice a year unless you are setting 700-2 as you minimums.

Says who? While not a bad idea, there's no requirement for an IPC outside a 12-month or greater lapse in currency.

 

[Clip4]

Says who? While not a bad idea, there's no requirement for an IPC outside a 12-month or greater lapse in currency.

Yes, there are people who use Part 91 minimums and get away with that very low standard. If you plan to fly in LIFR, you are foolish to accept Part 91 currency standards as part of a risk matrix just as you are to accept Part 91 VFR weather minimums when you are not instrument rated.

 

[tsts4]

Yes, there are people who use Part 91 minimums and get away with that very low standard. If you plan to fly in LIFR, you are foolish to accept Part 91 currency standards as part of a risk matrix just as you are to accept Part 91 VFR weather minimums when you are not instrument rated.

The point is an IPC is not required as you suggest as there's other paths to currency and proficiency. As someone posted above, being legal (ie current) is not the same as being proficient and I do agree that the legal minimums aren't enough for 99.9% of IR pilots to be proficient but where you and I disagree apparently is the method that a given pilot can use to achieve and maintain proficiency. As to what constitutes proficiency can vary greatly from pilot to pilot -- no one size fits all.

 

[N1120A]

Do it. It makes flying for transportation much more reliable and also makes you a better, safer pilot. After getting my instrument rating, I rarely fly VFR - saving it for times where I know I'll save a significant amount of time and know FF is virtually guaranteed. Working on flying with IFR precision, even in VMC, will help

I'm considering getting an IR for an improvement in travel reliability. It was a while since I got stuck for weather, but in some instances I hit just the right day for a gap in weather systems. One concern that I'm having is that I'm not flying all that much: about 60 to 70 hours a year. So, leaving aside an ability to knock out 2 arcs, 2 holds, and 2 approaches every 6 months, how low can an average GA pilot go?

For VFR, I came to think that beginners need to make 50 hours for a few years, and thereafter at least 35 hours. When they make those 35, it's at least half simple practice and landings. Seems like flying in IMC should be at least twice as hard, right?

Where are you that you need arcs? You don't even have to do an arc on a checkride for your instrument anymore, only for a CFII.

There are different kinds of IMC. There is punching through a 1000-2000' layer and there is sittimg in IMC from 500' AGL to 500' AGL an hour later after the approach. The first kind is something even many VFR pilots could probably do, especially on a GPS approach, while the second is incredibly taxing to hand fly for even experienced pilots.

In Los Angeles sometimes they'll vector you through it... there is a TEC route right over LAX as there is a VFR Special Flight Rule corridor too.. Similar situation in the NYC area once when I flew from Philly Northeast to McArthur on Long Island they vectored me through right along the coast.... but, it was one of those sever clear days and I was in a 172 Stretch Heavy Oh, this was way before 911.... doubt that will happen today

There are several TEC routes that go over midfield LAX or along the end of the runways over the LAX VOR, essentially following the SFRA or Coastal Route.

I'm curious as to which country's currency requirements these are (I mean, they're not the U.S. requirements, but I assume you didn't just make up the numbers, so they must be from somewhere).

Yeah, I was wondering the same.

 

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

@N1120A @RussR i think he was saying if you do this once a month you’re always current.