Military pilots favor gliders?

Aceman

Aceman

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jan 17, 2024
Messages
78
Display Name
Display name:
Aceman
All,

Ever since I started learning how to fly gliders, I've met a lot of ex-military pilots flying fighter jets. I've asked some of them why did they choose gliders instead of regular prop plane clubs and none of them have given me any straight answer. Why is there an abundance of fighter jet pilots from the military into gliders? Perhaps because the gliders are the purist form of flying? Gliders mimic fighter jets more than single engine prop planes?
 
Ex fighter jocks are pretty common in all circles of flying. Pretty confident there’s more of them per capita in my current circle than there were in my glider club, though there were a lot in the club.
 
Salty said:
Ex fighter jocks are pretty common in all circles of flying. Pretty confident there’s more of them per capita in my current circle than there were in my glider club, though there were a lot in the club.
Click to expand...
From my experience they are more abundant in the glider community. Our glider club has a lot of them (more than my previous training club at an all single-engine club).
 
Yeah, a trainer club isn’t going to attract many, that’s true. Gliding is very cool, and is a great way to become more connected with your aircraft.

But, I’m still pretty confident there are more ex-military folks in the group I’m flying with now.

IMG_0504.jpegIMG_2340.jpeg
 
I’m curious how your club works. Do you spend a lot of time assisting with launching other gliders? That was my biggest issue with my club. I’d spend all day there and get 2 hours of flying max. Works great if you’re retired military ;), but for us guys with a job, it was too much.
 
Not sure I get the comparison to a glider and fighter. Just because there’s a canopy and a stick doesn’t make it a fighter. They’re about as fast as a canoe and handle like a dump truck. I enjoyed flying gliders but not exactly a kick in the pants.

As far as the purist form of flying? Well, that’s subjective. I’m sure hang gliders, parasail, balloon guys etc, would disagree.
 
Yeah, I’d say my hang gliding days were the purest form of flight for me. Once you launch or separate from the tow, it’s so quiet, noting but the breeze in your face and the wind in your ears. Beautiful and peaceful. And the flyng position is a close to “superman” flying as you’re going to get.
 
Aceman said:
All,

Ever since I started learning how to fly gliders, I've met a lot of ex-military pilots flying fighter jets. I've asked some of them why did they choose gliders instead of regular prop plane clubs and none of them have given me any straight answer. Why is there an abundance of fighter jet pilots from the military into gliders? Perhaps because the gliders are the purist form of flying? Gliders mimic fighter jets more than single engine prop planes?
Click to expand...
I doubt there's any more "abundance" of ex-mil glider pilots than ex-mil in other types of flying. I can only think of one (an instructor who is ex Air Force, but not in jets) in our club, which is active enough to do 1500 to 1800 flights in a six month season. Maybe some of the ex-airline guys were also ex-military, but I don't think the number is large, or anything other than coincidental.

There won't be a good explanation for an observation that's just a random numbers variation.
 
Aceman said:
All,

Ever since I started learning how to fly gliders, I've met a lot of ex-military pilots flying fighter jets. I've asked some of them why did they choose gliders instead of regular prop plane clubs and none of them have given me any straight answer. Why is there an abundance of fighter jet pilots from the military into gliders? Perhaps because the gliders are the purist form of flying? Gliders mimic fighter jets more than single engine prop planes?
Click to expand...
What are some of the answers
 
A powered training based club will not be normal WRT to ex-military.

I find them everywhere. But I do find that a glider lands more like a jet than most SE airplanes.
 
I'd suspect a lot of it is just the small sample size you're observing. The glider club you are at happens to have a lot of former military. Could be because there's a military base nearby, or a couple of military friends joined and encouraged their other friends to do so too. And the airplane club you know of just doesn't have many former military pilots because of the same (but opposite) reasons. Perhaps.

But let's assume that your observation is actually correct, as if you surveyed lots of clubs out there. I could make up a few reasons:
- If they flew fighters for their career, maybe they're looking for something completely different. I mean, anything you rent isn't going to compare to an F-16, so why not go a totally different direction?
- Fighter pilots aren't used to using their planes for transportation anyway.
- Many USAF fighter pilots traditionally came from the USAF Academy. At the Academy, they likely flew gliders as part of a summer program. So now that their career is over, they want to get back to their roots.
- Gliders are fun, and quiet. It's nice. It's a more "natural" form of flying than powered aircraft.
- The technical challenges of soaring (finding lift, etc.) appeal to the same type of minds that once enjoyed the technical challenges of aerial combat, getting maximum performance from your aircraft.

Just some ideas.
 
I was going to reply along similar lines to what RussR wrote in his first paragraph...sample size, geography
and also what he said about "looking for something different"

I have no history in the military myself so this is only just a parallel speculation
but as an example....
I still to this day say that in all the types I've flown.... which includes cessna and piper trainers, and some low-end higher performance or complex stuff.... M-20, C-177RG, C-182RG, PA-23, PA-44
the most fun I've had flying hands-down was a little 65 HP 7AC Aeronca Champ with no electrical system on board. I speculate that in part it has something to do with the fact that I flew it just after finishing my instrument rating.... it was a relaxing break from the pressure and pace of IFR work and checkride.
 
I started with the Rucker glider club when I was a student helo pilot at Ft Rucker/Novosel. They had a "hard rule" against any non school flying. Not strictly enforced. I was able to chat with my Flt Commander about it. The club launched with both aero tow and automobile tow. He was in awe when I described the auto tow. Like a kid launching a kite. Steep, steep climb angle. Finished the flight school and moved on w/o getting rated.
Later, I got a school assignment and was restricted against military flight but still took flight physicals & collected flight pay. I found a glider op up the road in San Marcos, TX. It was at the old B-47 base. Picked up a Com Glider ticket.
I found a couple of glider clubs at my next assignment in the Ft Worth area. My new job was Chief of Air Crash Rescue at the Primary Helo School. I had UH-1 Med Evac Hueys and did all the other Med Evac missions beside crash rescue. The school also had a slew of FW aircraft, T-41B, T-42, U-8 and a C-47. And very few FW rated pilots. I was frequently robbed from my RW job to pitch in on the FW.
A week included a full schedule of day, night FW, RW, and glider flying. A lot of it. Loved it. No favorites.
 
I would think that retired fighter pilots might gravitate towards aerobatic airplanes where they could fly upside down and pull some occasional g's. Not that some gliders aren't aerobatic but you have a different level of aerobatics in powered aircraft. Powered aircraft also provide the opportunity to fly formation with like-minded (and trained) aerobatic pilots. You don't see gliders in formation enter on initial and pitch out to land. May not be the same as a four-ship of F-16s making an arrival but cool nonetheless.
 
Location/demographics probably plays a high factor in who makes up any club.

FrEx; if I’m in the TUS- PHX area, there’s a large number of F-16, F-35, and A10 pilots in the local community. Given a subset of these pilots will also participate in GA or other .mil flying, it’s likely there will be a non-zero number of fighter/former fighter pilots in various types of local flying activities.

Change that to Abilene, Texas. Smaller number of .mil pilots, none of whom are fighter pilots. That results in smaller number of .mil drivers as a whole participating in the local non-.mil scene.

While it may he correlative in the OPs case, there’s no causal relationship.
 
I flew gliders less than 50 miles from the Pentagon. We had a fair number of active military guys from anll branches on both ends of the rope on weekends.

I currently work near an Air Force base…we have a lot of retired tanker and bomber guys in the building, but very few fighter guys. Guess what they fly at the local base. ;)
 
Since may already have experience in gliders from the academy. Inevitably, some like it and some don't.
 
Small sample size, but two former F-16 pilots live on our street. One flies a Bonanza and one has an RV and a Husky on amphibs.
 
RussR said:
I'd suspect a lot of it is just the small sample size you're observing. The glider club you are at happens to have a lot of former military. Could be because there's a military base nearby, or a couple of military friends joined and encouraged their other friends to do so too. And the airplane club you know of just doesn't have many former military pilots because of the same (but opposite) reasons. Perhaps.

But let's assume that your observation is actually correct, as if you surveyed lots of clubs out there. I could make up a few reasons:
- If they flew fighters for their career, maybe they're looking for something completely different. I mean, anything you rent isn't going to compare to an F-16, so why not go a totally different direction?
- Fighter pilots aren't used to using their planes for transportation anyway.
- Many USAF fighter pilots traditionally came from the USAF Academy. At the Academy, they likely flew gliders as part of a summer program. So now that their career is over, they want to get back to their roots.
- Gliders are fun, and quiet. It's nice. It's a more "natural" form of flying than powered aircraft.
- The technical challenges of soaring (finding lift, etc.) appeal to the same type of minds that once enjoyed the technical challenges of aerial combat, getting maximum performance from your aircraft.

Just some ideas.
Click to expand...

I agree with the above.

Friend of mines job in the military was retrieving the cameras from U-2's when they landed. He asked the U-2 pilots what they did for fun on the weekend. When they told him fly glider, he decided needed to check out flying gliders, and has not been flying glider for 1000's hours of the past 40 years. Bit unrelated was his dad was an Airforce General that flew reconnaissance Spitfires and P-38's in WWII.

My impression is that flying hot military aircraft is a kick in the pants at times, mostly it is just a lot of work.
There isn't really any reason to fly a glider other than it is fun.

Velocity173 said:
They’re about as fast as a canoe and handle like a dump truck.
Click to expand...
Pretty true of most Trainers. Higher performance two place Gliders still fly like a truck, but at least have some reasonable speed and range to them. A Single Seat Racing glider has impressive range and handles like a Sport Car (or RV6, nice responsive controls and accelerates quickly)

I once sent one of my students off on a 200mi round trip cross country in a C-150. I then launched in my sailplane and flew the same route in my sailplane, it took me about an 1.5 hours longer to fly the route than he did, but then I didn't have an engine. I even saw him has he was on his return leg.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
LS6b
 
Last edited:
Gliders are generally hard to fly without support from a club. Powered aircraft are easy to just buy and fly without needing to socialize at all.

Military pilots are probably able to do some paperwork and fly single engine GA without much additional training. But other than the U-2 powered glider pilots, they will need some additional training before they can solo a glider.

I think that these are two of the reasons why military pilots might join a glider training club but not a powered airplane club. And that’s assuming that the statistic bears out beyond the OP’s sampling.
 
Salty said:
I’m curious how your club works. Do you spend a lot of time assisting with launching other gliders? That was my biggest issue with my club. I’d spend all day there and get 2 hours of flying max. Works great if you’re retired military ;), but for us guys with a job, it was too much.
Click to expand...
I fly. Because of my back, I can't assist with holding the wings level and signaling to the tow pilot to manage operations. Our chief of operations is an ex-F16 fighter pilot. I usually get there early before everyone else and then put in my altitudes on the tow tickets and go off.
 
Aceman said:
I fly. Because of my back, I can't assist with holding the wings level and signaling to the tow pilot to manage operations. Our chief of operations is an ex-F16 fighter pilot. I usually get there early before everyone else and then put in my altitudes on the tow tickets and go off.
Click to expand...

This may not have been intentional, but the way your post reads is "I don't do anything to help with the operation of the club, I just show up and fly."
 
RussR said:
This may not have been intentional, but the way your post reads is "I don't do anything to help with the operation of the club, I just show up and fly."
Click to expand...
For now, that's what I am doing. Of course I'm contributing to the financial aspects of the club but I am also in charge of assisting with our own FS computer in the office. Things are moving around a lot since the open of our new clubhouse. I'm sure once things get underway this summer, I'll be able to contribute more. The guys are more concerned with me getting a lot of stick time under my belt so I can be trusted more. I do plan on conducting "discovery flights" once I get more time under my belt.
 
So, working on your commercial rating already? Nice.
 
Salty said:
So, working on your commercial rating already? Nice.
Click to expand...
I've got a lot of hours for that, but yes, I might as well take advantage of the many hours I will accumulate and go commercial.
 
Hang gliding has very few fighter jocks, but tons of airline pilots. Not sure there is anything to infer from that.
 
Witmo said:
I would think that retired fighter pilots might gravitate towards aerobatic airplanes where they could fly upside down and pull some occasional g's. Not that some gliders aren't aerobatic but you have a different level of aerobatics in powered aircraft. Powered aircraft also provide the opportunity to fly formation with like-minded (and trained) aerobatic pilots. You don't see gliders in formation enter on initial and pitch out to land. May not be the same as a four-ship of F-16s making an arrival but cool nonetheless.
Click to expand...
Each time that I came to a new club or glider school, I was given a check ride. Without exception, the Instructor had me spin it. (I say "instructor" because there was no CFIG until the early 80's. COMG's had instructor privileges.) No one was ever reluctant to do spins. Even the new, teen-age pilots. However, today, there seems to be a lack of enthusiasm for spins among airplane pilots or students. Just saying.
Why spins? Just think of those long wingspans doing tight turns in a thermal kinda close to a stall.
 
Maxnr said:
Each time that I came to a new club or glider school, I was given a check ride. Without exception, the Instructor had me spin it. (I say "instructor" because there was no CFIG until the early 80's. COMG's had instructor privileges.) No one was ever reluctant to do spins. Even the new, teen-age pilots. However, today, there seems to be a lack of enthusiasm for spins among airplane pilots or students. Just saying.
Why spins? Just think of those long wingspans doing tight turns in a thermal kinda close to a stall.
Click to expand...
Agree. I have never spun a glider yet. I've been shown wingovers (which are very fun) but nothing else.
 
Everyone knows the official aircraft of former fighter pilots is the RV-8. It's almost a cliche. Bonus points if aircraft is painted/polished in P-51 scheme.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Everyone knows the official aircraft of former fighter pilots is the RV-8. It's almost a cliche. Bonus points if aircraft is painted/polished in P-51 scheme.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I own two planes and neither is an RV-8.......

:D
 
Did a bunch a spins in gliders during my training. My instructor was an English guy who was well known and even wrote a sailplane book. One time during a spin recovery I pushed a bit hard on the stick. He yells “you almost put my head through the bloody canopy!” :biggrin:
 
Last edited:
Velocity173 said:
Did a bunch a spins in gliders during my training. My instructor was an English guy who was well known and even wrote a sailplane book. One time during a spin recovery I pushed a bit hard on the stick. He yells “you almost put my through the bloody canopy!” :biggrin:
Click to expand...
Forgive me but you got me a bit off topic. I've been fortunate to have had some real great instructors, Student to PPL: Clyde spent WW2 instructing UK pilots in Stearmans. Bob took me through Com & inst. He had campaigned a P-40 from North Africa to N.Italy. His favorite thing was to fly every plane that the Axis left behind. My ATP instructor was the Director of Training at work and a life long teacher. My Glider instructor in San Marcos was an F4 pilot. Until he dropped a 500lb bomb on a range in FL and it detonated just under his belly. He departed the A/C sideways leaving one of his legs behind. The CAF put him in one of their AT-6s when they put on an airshow at San Marcos. Great aerobatic display. Earlier, my National Guard unit had four WW2 vets among the pilot roster and they took me on as a special project.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top