Military Conversion to FAA

Captain

Captain

Final Approach
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
8,006
Location
NOYB
Display Name
Display name:
First Officer
I was talking about this with my copilot today and got past what I knew for sure (didn't take long) so I told him I'd ask around...so here I am.

If a person gets hired by the Navy or Air Force and trains all the way to F18 / B1 super pilot with a bunch of hours and medals and then wants to fly for the airlines after their service, what do they have to do?

I was under the impression there was some sort of conversion chart to obtain the proper FAA certificates. Practical test not required but written test is? Does that sound close or am I way off.

Also, does anyone have a link to the conversion chart if that is used?

Thanks
 
All they have to do is call themselves "Captain" and get shoulder boards for their bath robe !
 
Military flight training doesn't count for anything as far as the FAA is concerned, in as far as it doesn't automatically grant you any type of pilot's license. It is entirely possible for someone to fly an F/A-18 at work, and not have a civilian ticket.

However, most folks go to the local FSDO after completing flight school and get their military competency rating. This is comprised of a 50 question written test and some paperwork proving that you successfully completed military flight training. After this you get the civilian rating commensurate with your military experience.

TacAir: Commercial/Instrument/MEL (CL Thrust Restriction)
P-3: Commercial/Instrument/MEL/B200 Type Rating
Helo: Commercial Helo/Instrument Helo

In order to fly for an airline you must then get your ATP which is done the same way a civilian would go about it, with a written exam and practical checkride.
 
Okay, got it.

Have to be a pilot with training in your record. Must have 10 hours flight time prior to application. Must be signed off for instrument on federal airways to have instrument privileges stamped on your cert. must pass a written test covering stuff like accident reporting and stuff the military likely doesn't teach.

You can only get a commercial this way. ATP requires normal written and practical. Type ratings carry over as long as there is a civilian counterpart to the plane. Tough luck for B2 pilots. No conversion charts. Guess that was an airline hiring thing I was erroneously carrying over.

Thanks everyone!
 
To add, in 2009 the FAA allowed IPs to get a CFI by taking the written only. You can use your up slip / chit to suffice for a Class 3 medical. Of course post 9 /11 GI Bill pays for flight training these days as well. Just some of the perks to serving in the military.
 
Velocity173 said:
To add, in 2009 the FAA allowed IPs to get a CFI by taking the written only. You can use your up slip / chit to suffice for a Class 3 medical. Of course post 9 /11 GI Bill pays for flight training these days as well. Just some of the perks to serving in the military.
Click to expand...

I actually issued a few of those as well as a few type ratings when the guys brought their records in.
 
Velocity173 said:
To add, in 2009 the FAA allowed IPs to get a CFI by taking the written only. You can use your up slip / chit to suffice for a Class 3 medical. Of course post 9 /11 GI Bill pays for flight training these days as well. Just some of the perks to serving in the military.
Click to expand...

I used my GI bill for my CMEI, CFI, CFII, and MEI in 1997.
 
Captain said:
I used my GI bill for my CMEI, CFI, CFII, and MEI in 1997.
Click to expand...

Yeah back then it paid 60 % and you had to have your PPL. Now with CH33 benefits it pays 100 % including PPL if at an accredited university. Part 141 (non university) pays 10 grand per year. Post 9/11 GI Bill is like the post WWII version.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah back then it paid 60 % and you had to have your PPL. Now with CH33 benefits it pays 100 % including PPL if at an accredited university. Part 141 (non university) pays 10 grand per year. Post 9/11 GI Bill is like the post WWII version.
Click to expand...

Holy smokes! That is better. Yeah, I got the 60% reimbursement.
 
Captain said:
Holy smokes! That is better. Yeah, I got the 60% reimbursement.
Click to expand...

It's a good deal but you'll hear a lot of stories on the helo side of abuse of the program. Adding a B206 qual as a "lab" that's paid for. Also racking up an unusual number of hours to get the rating all paid for. Lots of rumors that the GI Bill program can't sustain this for long. There's been a huge increase in college enrollment (not just aviation)with veterans getting out because of the increased benefits. Just the monthly stipend is enough to pay rent on a decent sized house.

I've been approved for my ME training for a couple months now. I just have to get off my butt and schedule the first lesson.
 
RhinoDrvr said:
TacAir: Commercial/Instrument/MEL (CL Thrust Restriction)
P-3: Commercial/Instrument/MEL/B200 Type Rating
Click to expand...

Minor points, but P-3 guys get an L188 (Lockheed Electra) Type Rating. P-8/C-40 guys can get a B-737 Type.

As far as the Centerline Thrust limitation, it depends on what their aircraft was/is. Hornet guys get the CL limitation. I don't believe Prowler guys are stuck with that and pretty sure that guys who came from the Tomcat world are not stuck with it either.
 
RotorAndWing said:
I actually issued a few of those as well as a few type ratings when the guys brought their records in.
Click to expand...

I planned on getting both but I just don't think I'd get around to utilizing either one. I suppose it couldn't hurt on a future job app though.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Minor points, but P-3 guys get an L188 (Lockheed Electra) Type Rating. P-8/C-40 guys can get a B-737 Type.

As far as the Centerline Thrust limitation, it depends on what their aircraft was/is. Hornet guys get the CL limitation. I don't believe Prowler guys are stuck with that and pretty sure that guys who came from the Tomcat world are not stuck with it either.
Click to expand...


IME it varies wildly with the DPE that gives you the equivalency paperwork. I got my CL thrust restriction removed flying a piston twin before I went to FlightSafety for a King Air 300 type rating so I could get my ATP during my checkride. After that I went back for my mil comp MEI and got MEII - however they said if I hadn't been an IP in the King Air, I would've only gotten Instrument Airplane Instructor since the Eagle is limited to CL thrust. Bummer for the fighter dudes...

I have heard of some DPE's giving the MEII to Eagle guys before, it all depends. For the most part it's been instrument only, no MEII in my experience.
 
Do B-52 drivers have to demonstrate the dreaded 7-engine approach to get rid of the centerline thrust limitation?
 
JeffDG said:
Do B-52 drivers have to demonstrate the dreaded 7-engine approach to get rid of the centerline thrust limitation?
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl: No. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

But I have been out there with 4 shut down on one side.

What to do when #1 fails in the pattern? Shut down #8. If you are in the pattern, your fuel weight is low enough to shut down a few engines.

I've known T-38 pilots get their CL limitation removed by showing their B-1B certification. No Equivilent for a civil jet type rating.
 
RhinoDrvr said:
P-3: Commercial/Instrument/MEL/B200 Type Rating
Click to expand...
The Navy's maritime pipeline includes the TC-12, which gets one a B200 type rating, but once PPC-qualified (that's Patrol Plane Commander, the Navy's designation for the PIC of a P-3/P-8), they also get a Lockheed Electra L-188 type rating since the P-3 is essentially the same airframe. I believe they also get an ASEL rating for their qualification in the T-6A Texan II in Primary training.

Those who to the E-2/C-2 don't fly the BE-200-based TC-12, but rather, the T-44A is a King Air 100, which has no type, so they will get an AMEL on that basis, but no type rating, since there is no civilian equivalent of the E-2/C-2. However, as well as an ASEL for their T-6A qualification.

Also, since Navy TACAIR types fly the single-engine T-45 Goshawk in Basic and Advanced Jet, they get an ASEL as well as a CLT-limited AMEL for their F/A-18 or EA-6B qualification. When the F-35C reaches the fleet, those going through Navy flight training and on into that aircraft will receive only ASEL, since all they will have flown in the Navy will have been ASEL's (T-6A, T-45, F-35C). Those Marines flying the F-35B will, along with all the V-22 pilots, also receive a Powered-Lift rating when the Bell 609 is certified and the FAA Starts issuing those ratings (as well anyone ever qualified in the AV-8A/B ).
 
BE-20 is only 12,500 lbs. no type rating.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
EvilEagle said:
I have heard of some DPE's giving the MEII to Eagle guys before, it all depends. For the most part it's been instrument only, no MEII in my experience.
Click to expand...
They're not supposed to give an ME rating on CFI based on military IP qual in anything listed in FAA Order 8900.1 as being CLT, and the F-15 is on that list. Asked and answered by Flight Standards (AFS-810) some time back. Reason is you can't get your CFI-ME rating in a CLT airplane, and there's no authority to issue a CFI-ME with a CLT limitation, only pilot certificates. However, the Instrument-Airplane rating is automatic for anyone IP-qualified in military airplanes, regardless of SE/ME -- they just can't exercise any instructor privileges (instrument or otherwise) in an ME airplane unless/until they also get an ME rating on their CFI ticket, and you can't do that based on only CLT ME qualification.
 
JeffDG said:
Do B-52 drivers have to demonstrate the dreaded 7-engine approach to get rid of the centerline thrust limitation?
Click to expand...
Not for the FAA -- just present their USAF B-52 PIC qualification paperwork. However, you can be sure they will have demonstrated approaches with more than one engine out before they get their USAF B-52 PIC qualification.
 
The military to civilian cert process is crazy. I have buds who are B-2/B-52 guys. They got their commercial MEL/INST airplane certs/ratings (but not the SEL) so it is illegal for them to go rent and fly the local Cessna 172 from the FBO. However, an F-16 or T-6 pilot has that option after obtaining the SEL add on. As an IP in T-37's and B-52's i got the conversion to CFII/MEI but I cannot give instruction in said Cessna 172, as i need to add on the SEL portion. Had i been a T-6 IP it would have been included in the initial conversion, without having to do an add-on ride. Also i flew the T-1 in flight school, received the type rating for the BE-400, but i don’t have an ATP. Also as crazy at it seems there are guys who fly in the military and have never done anything to get any of their civilian certs/ratings. Sadness....
 
Tiger Colina said:
The military to civilian cert process is crazy. I have buds who are B-2/B-52 guys. They got their commercial MEL/INST airplane certs/ratings (but not the SEL) so it is illegal for them to go rent and fly the local Cessna 172 from the FBO. However, an F-16 or T-6 pilot has that option after obtaining the SEL add on. As an IP in T-37's and B-52's i got the conversion to CFII/MEI but I cannot give instruction in said Cessna 172, as i need to add on the SEL portion. Had i been a T-6 IP it would have been included in the initial conversion, without having to do an add-on ride.
Click to expand...
When I was stationed at Cannon AFB in the early 80's (back when USAF UPT was all in twins), another CFI/WSO and I had a small cottage industry getting our pilots their ASEL ratings in his Cessna 150. Wasn't always easy to get them not to apply the full 40 degrees of flap upon turning downwind, but at least (unlike Navy-trained TACAIR types) they understood flaring. :wink2:
 
Ron Levy said:
Some are certified with over 12,500, including some versions of the military C-12, and there is a B200 type rating for that case. See http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=8900.1,Vol.5,Ch2,Sec19 and search on "B200" for details.
Click to expand...

On my last deployment to 5th Fleet, I met a mobilized reservist who in civilian life was an FAA ASI. He was telling me that he had been signing some C-12 guys off for their BE-200 types while flying around the AOR until he got a nasty message from his FSDO boss back home telling him he couldn't do that while on active duty.
 
Fearless Tower said:
On my last deployment to 5th Fleet, I met a mobilized reservist who in civilian life was an FAA ASI. He was telling me that he had been signing some C-12 guys off for their BE-200 types while flying around the AOR until he got a nasty message from his FSDO boss back home telling him he couldn't do that while on active duty.
Click to expand...
That I believe, but because he wasn't supposed to be doing FAA duties other than under the FAA's aegis, not because he was giving out B200 type ratings to military C-12 pilots. That is much like that Inspector in NJ who was doing practical tests on weekends in violation of FAA Order 8900.1 (minus the additional criminal activity of charging for the rides which landed that guy in jail).
 
Ron Levy said:
They're not supposed to give an ME rating on CFI based on military IP qual in anything listed in FAA Order 8900.1 as being CLT, and the F-15 is on that list. Asked and answered by Flight Standards (AFS-810) some time back. Reason is you can't get your CFI-ME rating in a CLT airplane, and there's no authority to issue a CFI-ME with a CLT limitation, only pilot certificates. However, the Instrument-Airplane rating is automatic for anyone IP-qualified in military airplanes, regardless of SE/ME -- they just can't exercise any instructor privileges (instrument or otherwise) in an ME airplane unless/until they also get an ME rating on their CFI ticket, and you can't do that based on only CLT ME qualification.
Click to expand...


Notice I didn't say that was normal...

I did explain that you normally didn't get the MEII as a fighter guy, why feel like you need to re-explain?
 
EvilEagle said:
Notice I didn't say that was normal...

I did explain that you normally didn't get the MEII as a fighter guy, why feel like you need to re-explain?
Click to expand...
Because it's not just abnormal to get the ME instructor rating if you're only qualified only in CLT ME's, it's not authorized. As noted by R&W, some were issued improperly during the first few weeks after that change was made to 61.73 before Flight Standards made it clear to the field that it wasn't authorized. Should a DPE or Inspector issue one today on that basis, the rating would be revoked and the issuer would be "reeducated" -- like with a smack up-side the head.
 
Hmmm, if you say so. I'm sure they never miss anything. Like those guys walking around with a MEII for well over a year now.

Anyway, back to topic...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top