MidAir at Centennial Airport Cirrus and Metroliner

I can tell you the results of the NTSB investigation almost out of the box. Lots of analysis of fields of view and then "Mutual failure of the pilots involved to see and avoid."
 
schmookeeg said:
That Cirrus left wing looks really intact for an overshoot. Wonder where the strike actually landed then?

Some lucky peeps in that mixup. Gonna be an interesting insurance claim vs the Cirrus owner also. :eek:
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Someone elsewhere opined the Cirrus took the top off the Metro with their landing gear and you can see where the vertical stab on the metro got hit also by something. Just after a quick look at the photos.

Another foot aft and the metro loses the tail, I bet. Damn close.

Sounds like from local jabber at least one local CFI knows the Metro pilot which indicates they’re likely a local also. Probably trained at APA.

Difference of less than a second probably made it survivable for both.
 
denverpilot said:
Someone elsewhere opined the Cirrus took the top off the Metro with their landing gear and you can see where the vertical stab on the metro got hit also by something. Just after a quick look at the photos.
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I can't even picture how that happens with the wing of the cirrus remaining intact
 
eman1200 said:
anyone else think tantulum was running around his room, high fiving himself
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I mean.. Metroliner vs Cirrus.. I think we know who's winning. The Cirrus would have been toast without the chute. So I still high five'd myself

luvflyin said:
Ya gotta @ these things
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I never would have seen this!

But damn.. I've been told that Metroliners / Merlins are "seriously overbuilt" and I think this is all the attestation anyone needs to prove that. Color me impressed. I'll high five one for the folks at Fairchild too
 
That sewer pipe has a hole in it!
 
schmookeeg said:
I can't even picture how that happens with the wing of the cirrus remaining intact
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Cirrus is not to be under estimated.. I'm not aware of a single inflight breakup and lord knows people have done stupid pilot tricks with them. The solid carbon fiber spar can take some abuse

From an AOPA article:

"...but the real test? After an encounter with severe clear air turbulence in August 2006, the pilot of an SR22 noted thin lines of paint missing from the tops of the wings, slowed the airplane, and made a precautionary landing, according to the preliminary NTSB report. The aircraft was tested by Atlanta Aerospace Corporation, and according to sources at Cirrus, data obtained from the primary flight display showed that the aircraft sustained a G load well above Part 23 design limits. The load caused the engine mounts to buckle, but the spar stayed intact. The pilot landed, and, according to an engineer interviewed, “we got to decide what to do with the spar.”
"

I'd still rather be in the Metroliner / Merlin though.
 
Read in another forum the cirrus was doing 175mph on downwind??? Maybe things just got fast base to final.
 
Torque beast said:
All I see are red x’s on iPad. You guys looking at these on computers?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Yup. Tapatalk doesn't play well with copy/pasted images. If you were viewing the forum on the iPad web browser, the pics should show up.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I love that the guy recording the video of the Cirrus is just watching it come out of the sky instead of rushing out to provide assistance. It couldn't have been more than a few hundred yards from him.
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There’s an entire Reddit sub forum titled “Don’t Help Just Film” for videos like that. Ha.
 
benyflyguy said:
Read in another forum the cirrus was doing 175mph on downwind??? Maybe things just got fast base to final.
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That Cirrus was moving on downwind and picked up speed on base. I'm thinking a cross wind on downwind became a tailwind on base and he didn't turn soon enough. Not sure why he was going so fast, should've been at 100 knots or below at that point, but maybe he was asked to keep his speed up.

Glad no one was injured. The Cirrus guys would have been toast without that chute.
 
It seems more likely that he was behind the airplane by a couple of beats. He said traffic in sight, but it's unclear if that's the airplane he's following or the SW4. Would have been better if he said "Cessna in sight". I'm thinking he was behind the plane and had target fixation on the runway overrun and didn't look left down final approach course before the turn. The whole concept of the Key, having right airspeed, altitude, sterile cockpit and plan at the base leg would have prevented it. Cirrus is on recording of 17R, the SW4 is on 17L. Will wait for the NTSB wisdom to have the final word. Everyone involved is probably at the keyboard typing reports at the moment.
 
Thinking through it, I would also guess the Cirrus would not be able to see the twin just before impact. The twin would have been at it's 8-9 o'clock position on the outside of the turn. Likely masked under the wing or fuselage. Given the speeds of the two planes and point of impact, the Cirrus was likely at the 2-3 o'clock position of the Metro, somewhere a crew on final approach probably isn't spending much time looking.
 
skyking3286 said:
It seems more likely that he was behind the airplane by a couple of beats. He said traffic in sight, but it's unclear if that's the airplane he's following or the SW4. Would have been better if he said "Cessna in sight". I'm thinking he was behind the plane and had target fixation on the runway overrun and didn't look left down final approach course before the turn. The whole concept of the Key, having right airspeed, altitude, sterile cockpit and plan at the base leg would have prevented it. Cirrus is on recording of 17R, the SW4 is on 17L. Will wait for the NTSB wisdom to have the final word. Everyone involved is probably at the keyboard typing reports at the moment.
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I think he was following the skyhawk, and the SW4 was approaching the other runway. The fact that he was following a skyhawk, that I believe had a student on his first solo, going that fast is baffling to me. If he hadn't hit the metroliner, he would have run over the skyhawk. Slowing a Cirrus takes a little planning and some distance.
 
I can’t get over the speed on that Cirrus - could it be a stuck throttle or something? I just looked up in my track logs the hottest I’ve ever come into an airport in an SR22 - 160 10nm out, 130 4nm out, 90 on short final, and that felt super fast.

PaulS said:
The fact that he was following a skyhawk, that I believe had a student on his first solo, going that fast is baffling to me.
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I think the student on solo was behind him - because he called out the position of the Cirrus on the ground to the tower. There was a skyhawk ahead of him as well and agree with you.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Thinking through it, I would also guess the Cirrus would not be able to see the twin just before impact. The twin would have been at it's 8-9 o'clock position on the outside of the turn. Likely masked under the wing or fuselage. Given the speeds of the two planes and point of impact, the Cirrus was likely at the 2-3 o'clock position of the Metro, somewhere a crew on final approach probably isn't spending much time looking.
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As for the metro they’re operated single pilot. I doubt the guy could see jack out the right side of his aircraft to the rear.

He didn’t even know he’d been hit, he interpreted the right yaw on final as losing the right engine and declared and landed.

The Cirrus would have had the metro in sight (and said so) before starting the turn I think. Typical for DEN TRACON to drop the fast movers off about six north of APA on a straight in with vectors for 17L, and 17R is used for all the training aircraft doing laps.

The fast movers are told to report or just known to be over the “north shore of cherry creek reservoir” and if you’re in the laps/conga line on the short runway you look right and forward in the downwind for them coming toward you to land on the parallel.

Then you don’t overshoot your base to final turn. It’s usually a continuous stream of bizjets for the left.

If and when you tire of doing laps you can ask to switch to the left for a full stop if they can work you in, but usually when it’s busy enough for split tower freqs the answer is no, and you have a long wait on the ground to cross 17L.

If wind is calm, they can usually work you across the 17 complex into a downwind for landing 28. Much faster.

Over on the east side where my hangar is the technique is if the wind is calm to ask to depart 10 and arrive 28 and avoid the goat rope going on over on the 17/35 complex altogether if you can.

Even better, depart 10 and go over to FTG for pattern work. LOL. Return 28.

But yeah. Cirrus appears to be registered local and shoulda known better how to deal with the parallels unless he thought he was being switched to the left for a full stop.

If I am stuck in the goat rope over doing laps on the short runway — asking for a short approach and 17L landing long to exit at A-8 gets me back to my hangar the fastest, if I see a break in the line of jets. Tons of runway over there.
 
denverpilot said:
But yeah. Cirrus appears to be registered local and shoulda known better how to deal with the parallels unless he thought he was being switched to the left for a full stop.
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I’m leaning toward just plain overshooting final for 17R. But it is also possible he had an expectation bias for 17L since he had flown out and done some kind of a city tour before returning to the pattern at KAPA.
 
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