Medical - Previosue DUI

S

sanforce

Pre-takeoff checklist
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sanforce
Hey guys,
I got a DUI / MIP when I was 18. I'm 23 now, and the both charges have been cleared off of my record completely. My lawyer said I never have to mention it on a job app or anything else that requests it. I have my medical scheduled for tomorrow morning, and I went ahead and listed the DUI on the medical application form even though I was told I did not have to.

Will this prevent me from/cause any problems in getting the 3rd class?
 
lol, i misspelled previous pretty badly up there. Just letting you know that I caught it before you did :D
 
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sanforce said:
lol, i miss spelled previous pretty badly up there. Just letting you know that I caught it before you did :D
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Yeah, I was wondering what kind of drug that was... :)

Sorry I don't have any advice for you although I know pilots who have had previous DUIs.
 
take it off of your form, tell the examiner about and use his advise on how or if you should put it on the form.

There may be better recommendations than mine, but that is where I would start. Perhaps even ask the examiner about it before starting the exam.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
Perhaps even ask the examiner about it before starting the exam.
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I've heard this advice several times and think it's pretty wise. Better to be "off the record" and get good advice about how to handle than be "on the record" and put down something that OKC isn't thrilled about.

Dr. Bruce might be by soon with better info.
 
Bruce.. does the FAA give any "grace" for folks who get caught up in zero tolerance state laws... like the kind that give an 18 year old with trace BAC's a DUI/DWI?

Over 21, pretty much its 0.08 to .10% BAC.. but for under 21 some states set it as low as 0.02 (or "any detectable level" above a threshhold) under the presumption that under 21 shouldnt be drinking anyways..

I recognize that rules are rules, but I'm more likely to give a slight nod to some 20 year old with a 0.03 BAC who got dinged for speeding and incidentally nabbed for DWI than someone with a professional grade liver and a .250-.450 BAC..
 
Unless Bruce comes in and says otherwise, or your attlorney is an aviation specialist familiar with FAA rules and procedures, you would be wise to report it. When you do, you can mention the disposition of your records. Note that this question asks "have you ever...," not "do you have an unsealed record..." One DUI five years ago won't stop the show, but being caught failing to report it when it must be reported could permanently ground you. If they don't care, they'll tell you so.
 
woodstock said:
you misspelled misspelled, too. ;)
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Correct & corrected :nonod:

Ron Levy said:
Unless Bruce comes in and says otherwise, or your attorney is an aviation specialist familiar with FAA rules and procedures, you would be wise to report it. When you do, you can mention the disposition of your records. Note that this question asks "have you ever...," not "do you have an unsealed record..." One DUI five years ago won't stop the show, but being caught failing to report it when it must be reported could permanently ground you. If they don't care, they'll tell you so.
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Alright, I'll leave it on there & just ask the doc about it in the morning. I was really just worried that my reckless youth behavior would ground me.

I guess at this point I should be more worried about my spelling.
 
Doggtyred said:
I recognize that rules are rules, but I'm more likely to give a slight nod to some 20 year old with a 0.03 BAC who got dinged for speeding and incidentally nabbed for DWI than someone with a professional grade liver and a .250-.450 BAC..
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I was just slightly over the limit, which is why I was given a DUI. I'm pretty sure that any minor with a hint of alcohol is given a DUI in Texas. Anyone over the legal limit gets a DWI.
 
sanforce said:
I was just slightly over the limit, which is why I was given a DUI. I'm pretty sure that any minor with a hint of alcohol is given a DUI in Texas. Anyone over the legal limit gets a DWI.
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In Texas, the DWI statute calls out 0.08 for over age 21 and 0.02 or so for under 21. The charge and penalties are the same. The qualifiers vary with age.
 
Doggtyred said:
In Texas, the DWI statute calls out 0.08 for over age 21 and 0.02 or so for under 21. The charge and penalties are the same. The qualifiers vary with age.
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Good to know. It will actually sound better IMO if I tell the doc that I got a DUI, not a DWI, as a minor b/c I was under .02
 
You have to report it. The question says, "history of..." not "Record of...." As a practical matter, it was probably on the data tapes long enough that it got recorded someplace.

When the FAA finds it and you didn't report it, it's revocation for failure to report. About the only exception to this is for an arrest that never comes to trial, and so never gets entered by the clerk of the court on the state datasystem. But unless you had a conviction that was expunged before the monthly data cycle, it's on a tape somewhere.

One conviction does not a problem make. HOWEVER , two in the eyes of the FAA is a line, even if 20 years apart. I tell all the younger aspiring guys in aviation, "if you have friends that drink and you are going to be a pro, lose the firends, choose now".

After your second infraction, you get grounded, and then you'll have to apply for a special issuance- psych eval, about $1,700 in cash in todays system, with psychometrics, and a bring back followup eval. EVERY year.
 
bbchien said:
About the only exception to this is for an arrest that never comes to trial.

HOWEVER , two in the eyes of the FAA is a line, even if 20 years apart.

about $1,700
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I was arrested and never went to trial. I'm not sure what all my lawyer did, but he said there is absolutely no record of it and I "never" have to report it. I also never payed a ticket. All I payed was a lawyer fee and an alcohol course fee. He also told me to get some community service because it would "look good." It wasn't court assigned.

Now, to play on the safe side I know that I should report, or at least bring it up, to the AME. The only reason I want him to agree that I do not have to report it is the *potential* for another. Then go through all the FAA BS and pay $1700 for having two, when it was only one.

Now, don't think that I plan on getting another or that I am reckless enough to get wasted and drive. I'm not. However, I'm 23 years old and I have no problem with have some drinks with friends and then driving home. I know my limits, which are not excessive, but they could be over the limit.

I know that doesn't matter to the FAA... so I'll need to make sure that I am driving the speed limit!:drink:
 
sanforce said:
to the AME.
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I guess you are the AME! My father is an AME as well and he said the line was blurred in this case because I never went to court but I did get arrested. Of course, he also said it would be a much better idea to report it and not get another DUI.

Ohhhh dads
 
sanforce said:
I was arrested and never went to trial. I'm not sure what all my lawyer did, but he said there is absolutely no record of it and I "never" have to report it. I also never payed a ticket. All I payed was a lawyer fee and an alcohol course fee.
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Read the instructions on the FAA form carefully, especially the part about "attendance at an alcohol treatment program in lieu of conviction." The fact that you never went to trial isn't enough. Both the arrest and the attendance at the course trigger the requirement to check "yes," and while the arrest may not be on the books any more, I'll bet the course attendance is. Either way, since it says "have you ever...," not "do you have a record of...," you must report this.
 
sanforce said:
I know that doesn't matter to the FAA... so I'll need to make sure that I am driving the speed limit!:drink:
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No, if you value flying the answer is no. My rules for myself is if I am eating dinner (and therefor hanging out for sometime) I may have one glass of wine at the begining of dinner, I then change to water or soda if I am driving.... otherwise I don't drive.

Driving the speed limit makes no diffrence... they can stop you for anything even if it's bogus and the minute you blow anything they can write you a ticket... and you are done. Even if the orignal reason for the stop gets thrown out, the DUI will not.

If you are going out drinking: Walk, have someone else drive or get a cab. No other option exists if you value your flying privlages.
 
A long time ago I sat myself down and asked the question what is more important, flying or drinking. I can not remember my last drink. If you drink there will always be the chance of getting caught. I suggest when your out with your friends try drinking something non alcoholic, you will be suprised how easy it is to get used to. Plus you can be the designated driver, how cool is that.
 
Mooneymike said:
A long time ago I sat myself down and asked the question what is more important, flying or drinking. I can not remember my last drink. If you drink there will always be the chance of getting caught. I suggest when your out with your friends try drinking something non alcoholic, you will be suprised how easy it is to get used to. Plus you can be the designated driver, how cool is that.
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Personally, I've had the same six-pack in my fridge for the last 3 months (there are 3 left...I have about one a month, in summer I generally have one a week after I finish cutting the grass)...the odds of my getting a DUI are approximately zero, yet I've not stopped drinking entirely.
 
sanforce said:
However, I'm 23 years old and I have no problem with have some drinks with friends and then driving home. I know my limits, which are not excessive, but they could be over the limit.
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You are kidding right?




If you aren't, I really don't want to share the skies, or the roads with you.

.08 is insanely high as it is. Point anything other than zero is too.

You really need to check your attitude, and do a little research on the effects of alcohol on driving, reaction time and reasoning.
 
JeffDG said:
Personally, I've had the same six-pack in my fridge for the last 3 months (there are 3 left...I have about one a month, in summer I generally have one a week after I finish cutting the grass)...the odds of my getting a DUI are approximately zero, yet I've not stopped drinking entirely.
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:eek:)) The six-pack of Harley Davidson HEAVY BEER in my fridge reads "Milwaukee 1987." Do you suppose it has collector's value?

HR
 
ruh roh, rorge.

The reason the language was changed in form GG was precisely to remove "the blurred line" in just this instance. The arrest was associated with driving school. It's a must report.

IF they discover it, you get all pilot certificates revoked (administratively, no attorneys pertain). This is how the Hon. Rep James Oberstar wanted it (Chair of the House Committee on Transportation, a very powerful "sound byte populist").

Ruh Ro, Rorge.....
 
JeffDG said:
Personally, I've had the same six-pack in my fridge for the last 3 months (there are 3 left...I have about one a month, in summer I generally have one a week after I finish cutting the grass)...the odds of my getting a DUI are approximately zero, yet I've not stopped drinking entirely.
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Jeff you were absolutely correct, when you used the word "approximately". I personally like being able to say my chances of getting a DUI are absolutely zero.:D
 
infotango said:
You are kidding right?


If you aren't, I really don't want to share the skies, or the roads with you.

.08 is insanely high as it is. Point anything other than zero is too.

You really need to check your attitude, and do a little research on the effects of alcohol on driving, reaction time and reasoning.
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no... I'm not kidding & I believe my attitude is fine. I don't believe it's bad to have 3 or 4 beers and drive. I'm also not worried that the person next to me has had that amount. If I see somebody swerving, then yea I would be under the impression that they have had too much. The fact that they are swerving proves their reasoning and reaction times aren't there.

If I personally drink more than I should, I won't drive. I've left my truck and crashed on friends couches plenty of times before. Of course, I don't look for a situation to prove this point but it does happen on occasion.

If any of you are wondering, I know that a single drop of alcohol and flying is extremely dangerous. I observe the 8 hour minimum rule. Also, I would never have a heavy night of drinking before a flight.

See you on the roads and in the skies.:blowingkisses:
 
sanforce said:
no... I'm not kidding & I believe my attitude is fine. I don't believe it's bad to have 3 or 4 beers and drive. I'm also not worried that the person next to me has had that amount. If I see somebody swerving, then yea I would be under the impression that they have had too much. The fact that they are swerving proves their reasoning and reaction times aren't there.

If I personally drink more than I should, I won't drive. I've left my truck and crashed on friends couches plenty of times before. Of course, I don't look for a situation to prove this point but it does happen on occasion.

If any of you are wondering, I know that a single drop of alcohol and flying is extremely dangerous. I observe the 8 hour minimum rule. Also, I would never have a heavy night of drinking before a flight.

See you on the roads and in the skies.:blowingkisses:
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Good grief...

I don't even know where to start, so I'll just say this: Longer ago than you've been alive, I was an EMS volunteer. I honestly can't say how many young people died (or killed others) because they thought having "3 or 4 beers" was within their "limits."

That's all I'm going to say other than that I do hope you rethink your attitude a bit. The older I get, the sadder I get when I hear about tragedies involving young people.

Please don't become a statistic.

-Rich
 
I think I'll be alright.

5beers.jpg
 
infotango said:
...

.08 is insanely high as it is. Point anything other than zero is too.

....
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Not really; it all depends on the person involved. .08 is an arbitrary number selected as a black letter line for ease of enforcement.
 
sanforce said:
Hey guys,
I got a DUI / MIP when I was 18. I'm 23 now, and the both charges have been cleared off of my record completely. My lawyer said I never have to mention it on a job app or anything else that requests it. I have my medical scheduled for tomorrow morning, and I went ahead and listed the DUI on the medical application form even though I was told I did not have to.

Will this prevent me from/cause any problems in getting the 3rd class?
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Was this in Colorado (your profile says Boulder)?

http://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms...etition to seal arrest & criminal records.pdf

Start there. Read those instructions carefully.

Regardless of whether it has or has not been sealed, it doesn't matter for the FAA's purposes. Disclose it.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Regardless of whether it has or has not been sealed, it doesn't matter for the FAA's purposes. Disclose it.
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Nah, it was in Texas. I disclosed it in my paper work but the doctor didn't really mention it. He simply said the DUI happened a long time ago and wont be a problem.
 
sanforce said:
Now, don't think that I plan on getting another or that I am reckless enough to get wasted and drive. I'm not. However, I'm 23 years old and I have no problem with have some drinks with friends and then driving home. I know my limits, which are not excessive, but they could be over the limit.

I know that doesn't matter to the FAA... so I'll need to make sure that I am driving the speed limit!:drink:
Click to expand...

infotango said:
You are kidding right?
If you aren't, I really don't want to share the skies, or the roads with you.

.08 is insanely high as it is. Point anything other than zero is too.

You really need to check your attitude, and do a little research on the effects of alcohol on driving, reaction time and reasoning.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that and was appalled by it. If you are only interested in abiding by the rules that you agree with, then I don't want to be anywhere around you - in the air or on the ground.

That statement of yours is just messed up.
 
sanforce said:
no... I'm not kidding & I believe my attitude is fine. I don't believe it's bad to have 3 or 4 beers and drive. I'm also not worried that the person next to me has had that amount. If I see somebody swerving, then yea I would be under the impression that they have had too much. The fact that they are swerving proves their reasoning and reaction times aren't there.

If I personally drink more than I should, I won't drive. I've left my truck and crashed on friends couches plenty of times before. Of course, I don't look for a situation to prove this point but it does happen on occasion.

If any of you are wondering, I know that a single drop of alcohol and flying is extremely dangerous. I observe the 8 hour minimum rule. Also, I would never have a heavy night of drinking before a flight.

See you on the roads and in the skies.:blowingkisses:
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You don't apparently understand that the FIRST THING to get impaired is your ability to make that decision. As long as you've incorporated a willingness to drink "more than the limit" and drive, you've given up the only possible barrier to driving drunk that you had. Because saying "I'll stop when I decide I've had too much, but I'll drive with less than that, even if it's over the limit" puts the burden on your ability to tell the difference - and that ability is the first thing that alcohol impairs.

Your attitude is a problem.
 
You know what, this thread has derailed for long enough. It would have been closed, if I had that ability, after my medical issue was taken care of.

I was originally asking a simple medical question regarding paperwork. Now I'm getting bashed for saying that I will drink and drive UNDER the legal limit. I thought 4 beers might put me over, and I was simply saying that I feel 4 beers is fine to drive on. Turns out I can have 5 in a single hour, based on that calculator, and still be legal. Maybe I should get a breathalyzer and test my actual limit?

Regardless, I'm sticking to my original point of a few drinks at dinner and then driving home is not a problem. If it was, then the legal limit would be .00 % BAC. It's not.
 
sanforce said:
You know what, this thread has derailed for long enough. It would have been closed, if I had that ability, after my medical issue was taken care of.

I was originally asking a simple medical question regarding paperwork. Now I'm getting bashed for saying that I will drink and drive UNDER the legal limit. I thought 4 beers might put me over, and I was simply saying that I feel 4 beers is fine to drive on. Turns out I can have 5 in a single hour, based on that calculator, and still be legal. Maybe I should get a breathalyzer and test my actual limit?

Regardless, I'm sticking to my original point of a few drinks at dinner and then driving home is not a problem. If it was, then the legal limit would be .00 % BAC. It's not.
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You're confusing "legal" and "safe".
 
this thread is closed imo. Let me know when you guys come to a consensus on how evil/bad/unsafe I am.
 
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sanforce said:
this thread is closed imo. Let me know when you guys come to a consensus on how evil/bad/unsafe I am.
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Hmmm...

sanforce said:
I'll stick with legal and count on it being safe.

Next....?
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Interesting edit...

Anyway, lemme know if you're coming to TN...I'd like to stay off the roads with yet another person with that attitude.
 
sanforce said:
Hey guys,
I got a DUI / MIP when I was 18. I'm 23 now, and the both charges have been cleared off of my record completely. My lawyer said I never have to mention it on a job app or anything else that requests it. I have my medical scheduled for tomorrow morning, and I went ahead and listed the DUI on the medical application form even though I was told I did not have to.

Will this prevent me from/cause any problems in getting the 3rd class?
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As you know already, you will be able to get your third class medical even though you were caught with a minor drinking problem.

Sadly, it appears from follow-up posts that you have come here for approval and enabling. So, now while we stand here and say, "Watch out, you are headed for trouble!" you want to cover your eyes and ears. I understand. At the age of 23, it is hard to believe you are anything other than in complete control of your situation.

Unfortunately, alcohol is a dangerous mistress. If you believe you can safely handle 3, 4, or 5 beers and then drive safely, please consider getting more help.

Please don't fly within 24 hours of drinking. Please don't fly with any blood alcohol level. That should be your rule.
 
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