Medical Error: AME Directed Me to Answer "No" on Question 18W. Need Advice!

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Anonymous020817

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I was charged for marijuana possession (misdemeanor) over 10 years ago in the state of California. The small amount I had is actually legal now, and California has made efforts to dismiss these prior convictions now that it's legal. My case has been sealed and destroyed, and the county court can no longer even see the charge at all.

I am in the beginning stages of flight training, and just completed my first class medical. My AME is aware of this previous charge, and he recommended I answer "no" to question 18w on the medical where it asks about any non traffic misdemeanor convictions since the case is sealed. He was not worried about the charge in the slightest since it's so old and is now legal, and I agree that the charge itself would likely not keep me from becoming a pilot. But now that the medical has already been passed and submitted, I'm starting to worry that "no" was the wrong answer to that question and it's going to come back to haunt me. Even though the case has been sealed, I imagine the FAA can still see that charge and may think I intentionally lied in my answer to cover it up. I'm more worried about a falsification issue now. I had also already responded "yes" in the IACRA form where it asks about being convicted of a drug crime because at that point, the case was not yet sealed. This discrepancy may also raise a red flag. I have already been granted a temporary license but haven't gotten the real card in the mail yet.

The AME has records of my case on file and reiterated that he's not worried, but what do you recommend the best course of action to be? Is it best to just correct this on my next medical in six months and include a note about why we said "no" to 18w the first time? Or reach out to the FAA to explain the situation before they find it and think I was intentionally lying (would I do this or the AME?)... or not raise attention to it? I am just assuming the worst and am nervous they will revoke my license completely — would like to avoid this, of course. Thanks for any and all advice!
 
You should be worried. I don't think the FAA is gonna care that the AME said it was OK for you to conceal this. It was your question to answer truthfully, not his. As far as the case being sealed ... it's the Federal Government we're talking about here. Do you really think they ever throw away any incriminating evidence on anyone?

A real doc will be along shortly and you should listen & follow carefully. Hoping the best for you ... seriously.
 
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Daleandee said:
You should be worried. I don't think the FAA is gonna care that the AME said it was OK for you to conceal this. It was your question to answer truthfully, not his. As far as the case being sealed ... it's the Federal Government we're talking about here. Do you really think they ever throw away any incriminating evidence on anyone?

I real doc will be along shortly and you should listen & follow carefully. Hoping the best for you ... seriously.
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Yes you're definitely correct, I guess I should have pointed out in my first post I know for a fact the FAA can see the charge, not that I "imagine" they can. My question though is what would be the best course of action knowing I severely messed up, if the AME can no longer correct it once submitted. Should I write a letter to the FAA to explain, or get an attorney to? I've also seen some other forum posts recommending people in similar situations to just correct it on their next medical.
 
Anonymous020817 said:
Should I write a letter to the FAA to explain, or get an attorney to? I've also seen some other forum posts recommending people in similar situations to just correct it on their next medical.
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Not sure what you should do and that's why I suggested you wait for one of the smarter docs to come in and advise.
 
We need the Bravo of Bollingbrook to chime in and I think I know what the good doc will say.
 
Anonymous020817 said:
I was charged for marijuana possession (misdemeanor)…
The small amount I had is actually legal now, and California has made efforts to dismiss these prior convictions…
…My case has been sealed and destroyed, and the county court can no longer even see the charge at all.
… and he recommended I answer "no" to question 18w on the medical where it asks about any non traffic misdemeanor convictions since the case is sealed.
… I had also already responded "yes" in the IACRA form where it asks about being convicted of a drug crime because at that point, the case was not yet sealed.
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Things I’ve learned about the FAA from others on these forums:
A) They do not equate a record being sealed, or expunged, or reversed, or even destroyed, as being the same thing as it not having happened. Those ideas are within the court system, and the FAA is a different system. When they ask “have you ever been convicted…” they expect a literal answer.
B) Despite some states legalizing marijuana, it’s still illegal on a federal level, and the FAA is a federal agency. Its legal status in your state is irrrlevant to them.

I don’t really have any advice, except not to ignore this and to take it seriously.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Which happened in post #4.
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I know ... but he asked me directly and I answered him directly. As to whether he should take the advice already given or what another AME may post is not for me to recommend.

I know what I'd do if it were me ... but it ain't.
 
How did you get in front of the doc without having already answered the question? I was under the impression you can't change an answer once you get the code.
 
aftCG said:
How did you get in front of the doc without having already answered the question? I was under the impression you can't change an answer once you get the code.
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The doc can change anything on the form.
 
kath said:
Things I’ve learned about the FAA from others on these forums:
A) They do not equate a record being sealed, or expunged, or reversed, or even destroyed, as being the same thing as it not having happened. Those ideas are within the court system, and the FAA is a different system. When they ask “have you ever been convicted…” they expect a literal answer.
B) Despite some states legalizing marijuana, it’s still illegal on a federal level, and the FAA is a federal agency. Its legal status in your state is irrrlevant to them.

I don’t really have any advice, except not to ignore this and to take it seriously.
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Yes, 100%! I realize now the FAA isn't going to view it the same way as the courts, understandably. I know for sure I should have put "yes" on the question and that might have brought up some additional questioning that I could explain afterwards, but now that I put "no" and am going to have to correct it, I'll have the added disadvantage of them questioning why I didn't just put "yes" in the first place. It really doesn't look great and I'm so frustrated with myself for it. Just hoping if I'm honest now they can amend it.
 
aftCG said:
How did you get in front of the doc without having already answered the question? I was under the impression you can't change an answer once you get the code.
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I had answered "no" and then pointed it out to him at the exam to ask him about it directly. If he had recommended to change it to "yes," I could have filled out a new form and started fresh before he fully submitted this one to the FAA. Now unfortunately it's already been submitted, so he can't make any changes to it.
 
Your AME, a representative of the FAA, advised you in his official capacity. Why would you give more credence to advice from SGOTI?

And FWIW, another AME here concurred with yours, but you don't want to take "yes" for an answer?

Shortly, someone will be along to complain about how unreasonable the FAA is......
 
Agh! The FAA is so unreasonable in these cases!!!

OP, you screwed up. Don’t screw up again by explicitly pointing out your own mistake.
 
You’ve submitted it now. It’s done. Cross your fingers, pray about it, and fill out every future medical application exactly the same way to the letter.
 
Truly appreciate everyone's advice and discussion. A little torn with some advising to take it seriously like the FAA will and some advising to let it go and not point this out any further, but I appreciate all your opinions and you taking the time to respond. I'm sure there's no clearcut answer. Does it change anyone's opinion that as I mentioned in the op I did point out the conviction and conviction date on my IACRA? So the information is out there for them to see.
 
Probably all you can do now is wait for the medical…. Or a denial letter.

if you get the medical… all good. I doubt they’re going to revisit something like this.
 
I would get some advice from an aviation attorney. You have lot invested in this best to just correct it sooner then later I would not send any letters to the FAA without speaking to the attorney first.
 
Here's the problem I have with this type of situation. If OP answered yes, the FAA is going to request the court case documents along with all records pertaining. It's been sealed and destroyed, what are they supposed to supply to the FAA? What are people supposed to do when they know they were charged with something but can't prove it?
 
Mooneymayhem said:
Here's the problem I have with this type of situation. If OP answered yes, the FAA is going to request the court case documents along with all records pertaining. It's been sealed and destroyed, what are they supposed to supply to the FAA? What are people supposed to do when they know they were charged with something but can't prove it?
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Write a letter to the appropriate Clerk of Courts outlining the situation and requesting records. Clerk will write back saying there are no records. Send the FAA copies of all correspondence. They won’t care anyway, they just have bureaucratic boxes they need to check off on their legal instruments.
 
Since you have a 1st class, you probably want to be an airline pilot. The airlines have to do a background clearance check on you before hiring. Marijuana is still illegal federally, and the FAA is a federal organization. I don't think it is okay to commit a crime because maybe sometime in the future it won't be a crime anymore and the record will be destroyed so I can lie about it and get away with it.
 
Anonymous020817 said:
I was charged for marijuana possession (misdemeanor) over 10 years ago in the state of California. The small amount I had is actually legal now, and California has made efforts to dismiss these prior convictions now that it's legal. My case has been sealed and destroyed, and the county court can no longer even see the charge at all.

I am in the beginning stages of flight training, and just completed my first class medical. My AME is aware of this previous charge, and he recommended I answer "no" to question 18w on the medical where it asks about any non traffic misdemeanor convictions since the case is sealed. He was not worried about the charge in the slightest since it's so old and is now legal, and I agree that the charge itself would likely not keep me from becoming a pilot. But now that the medical has already been passed and submitted, I'm starting to worry that "no" was the wrong answer to that question and it's going to come back to haunt me. Even though the case has been sealed, I imagine the FAA can still see that charge and may think I intentionally lied in my answer to cover it up. I'm more worried about a falsification issue now. I had also already responded "yes" in the IACRA form where it asks about being convicted of a drug crime because at that point, the case was not yet sealed. This discrepancy may also raise a red flag. I have already been granted a temporary license but haven't gotten the real card in the mail yet.

The AME has records of my case on file and reiterated that he's not worried, but what do you recommend the best course of action to be? Is it best to just correct this on my next medical in six months and include a note about why we said "no" to 18w the first time? Or reach out to the FAA to explain the situation before they find it and think I was intentionally lying (would I do this or the AME?)... or not raise attention to it? I am just assuming the worst and am nervous they will revoke my license completely — would like to avoid this, of course. Thanks for any and all advice!
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What did you end up doing? I had a couple misdemeanors and made a similar mistake, when I filled out my 1st class form I zoomed through it and swore it was only asking about duis/dwi which I don't have but I believe now after starting school I should of answered yes and explained my couple cases I have on my record.I honestly didn't even realize I was lying until my AME was getting weird asking me if I had answered yes at all. I said no because I was pretty sure I didn't then after getting my medical I looked back over the form realized I should of just said yes. I wasn't trying to hide anything. trying to decide if I need to write and honest letter to the faa or wait to include it on my next medical. I mean being honest is being honest isn't that all the faa wants?
 
newguystudentpilot said:
What did you end up doing? I had a couple misdemeanors and made a similar mistake, when I filled out my 1st class form I zoomed through it and swore it was only asking about duis/dwi which I don't have but I believe now after starting school I should of answered yes and explained my couple cases I have on my record.I honestly didn't even realize I was lying until my AME was getting weird asking me if I had answered yes at all. I said no because I was pretty sure I didn't then after getting my medical I looked back over the form realized I should have just said yes. I wasn't trying to hide anything. trying to decide if I need to write and honest letter to the faa or wait to include it on my next medical. I mean being honest is being honest isn't that all the faa wants?
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Im kind of in a similar boat. See I was arrested and convicted of DWI in 2014. I included that in my app and I was still awarded my 3rd and 1st class medical. But here’s where I’m worried I was also arrested in 2011 for evading arrest, the situation was really a mix up in how I ended up in the situation. But I was found not guilty and the cases was dismissed. I just don’t know if I should have disclosed that since it wasn’t drug related nor was I Convicted.
 
rhanes004 said:
Im kind of in a similar boat. See I was arrested and convicted of DWI in 2014. I included that in my app and I was still awarded my 3rd and 1st class medical. But here’s where I’m worried I was also arrested in 2011 for evading arrest, the situation was really a mix up in how I ended up in the situation. But I was found not guilty and the cases was dismissed. I just don’t know if I should have disclosed that since it wasn’t drug related nor was I Convicted.
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Read the exact wording on the form. Q18v is related to driving. Q18w is any nontraffic conviction.

Then decide if your Q about the 2011 event is being specifically asked about. It sounds like no - based on you saying there was no conviction unless it involved something asked in Q18v.

Also fwiw - The SSN is optional. I choose not to provide my SSN.
 
rhanes004 said:
Im kind of in a similar boat. See I was arrested and convicted of DWI in 2014. I included that in my app and I was still awarded my 3rd and 1st class medical. But here’s where I’m worried I was also arrested in 2011 for evading arrest, the situation was really a mix up in how I ended up in the situation. But I was found not guilty and the cases was dismissed. I just don’t know if I should have disclosed that since it wasn’t drug related nor was I Convicted.
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I would absolutely review the question with an attorney who understands both criminal and aviation law. Fortunately, they are not difficult to find since many lawyers who handle FAA enforcement also handle criminal cases (although not vice versa).

The reason is simple: you want an accurate answer. My experience is that most people who have been through the criminal process understand very little about it or what happened with their case (unless they are very experienced after being through the criminal mill many times).
 
This is one of the few times that you need an attorney. Really. One who practices in the FEDERAL courts.
 
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bbchien said:
This is one of the few tiems that you need an attorney. Really. One who practices in the FEDERAL courts.
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I won't disagree that both would be helpful, but I would worry less about federal court experience than a solid grounding in state criminal procedure and an understanding of the FAA's relatively simple position on arrests and convictions. I know federal practitioners who would understand neither and non-federal practitioners who understand both extremely well.

My practice involved both state and federal courts. All of the formal legal advice I've given in this arena has turned on nuances in state procedure – whether there was ever an arrest or conviction to begin with.
 
Anonymous020817 said:
Truly appreciate everyone's advice and discussion. A little torn with some advising to take it seriously like the FAA will and some advising to let it go and not point this out any further, but I appreciate all your opinions and you taking the time to respond. I'm sure there's no clearcut answer. Does it change anyone's opinion that as I mentioned in the op I did point out the conviction and conviction date on my IACRA? So the information is out there for them to see.
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What ended up happening?
 
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