Mayday STOL drag races - Wayne NE

Old97

Old97

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Messages
337
Location
Bayou City
Display Name
Display name:
Old97
Anyone else from POA here?

Unfortunately there has been a crash of a participant this evening.
 
Not there but it intrigued me when I heard about the last one. Is this one of those aviation bucket list type events?
 
the STOL community as a whole is probably responsible for a significant uptick in aircraft insurance rates.

edit: I do hope the person was okay, I can't find any info online.
 
Last edited:
DavidWhite said:
the STOL community as a whole is probably responsible for a significant uptick in aircraft insurance rates.

edit: I do hope the person was okay, I can't find any info online.
Click to expand...
With all the exceptions in insurance, are you actually covered if you bend a little metal in a "drag race" or other risky activity like that?
 
Todd82 said:
With all the exceptions in insurance, are you actually covered if you bend a little metal in a "drag race" or other risky activity like that?
Click to expand...

I would guess that generally as long as you aren't violating any FARs they will still cover you.
 
"Just don't like the name of Drag Racing"?? That is an odd comment. Participating or spectator, it is a great sport and family orientated.
 
ronnieh said:
"Just don't like the name of Drag Racing"?? That is an odd comment. Participating or spectator, it is a great sport and family orientated.
Click to expand...
I don't find it odd at all. I get it. He owns the airstrip. Drag racing means your going as fast as you can. STOL drags means your doing maneuvers in an airplane as fast you can just feet above the ground. The liability of allowing an event like that on my property would be a hard pass from me as well.
 
I took it the poster was talking drag racing in general, "the name drag racing". I don't even know what STOL drag racing is, never heard of it. So ya, found it odd to condemn the very term "drag racing". He seemed to suggest just call it something else and it would be OK.
And to your other point in conventional drag racing it is not about speed but, rather elapsed time from point A to point B.
 
Last edited:
My recent Avemco policy specifically excludes "qualifying, or participating in closed course racing".
 
ronnieh said:
I took it the poster was talking drag racing in general, "the name drag racing". I don't even know what STOL drag racing is, never heard of it. So ya, found it odd to condemn the very term "drag racing". He seemed to suggest just call it something else and it would be OK.
And to your other point in conventional drag racing it is not about speed but, rather elapsed time from point A to point B.
Click to expand...
Any racing is dangerous. Been in more wrecks than I'd like to admit. And I totally get why someone would shy away from allowing such activity on their own property.

 
Racerx said:
Any racing is dangerous. Been in more wrecks than I'd like to admit. And I totally get why someone would shy away from allowing such activity on their own property.

Click to expand...
From the news report, it sounds like the accident was not a part of the race?

"According to a release from event officials, the pilot crashed on final approach at the Wayne Municipal Airport around 6:45 p.m. which had what to appeared to be a stall spin accident."
 
OKDonn said:
From the news report, it sounds like the accident was not a part of the race?

"According to a release from event officials, the pilot crashed on final approach at the Wayne Municipal Airport around 6:45 p.m. which had what to appeared to be a stall spin accident."
Click to expand...
It was part of the competition. Landing short and take off distance contest.
 
I think the STOL event was canceled that evening for wind. They were doing fun demo stuff. The video of the accident shows him following a Zenith 701 (maybe) which has a lower stall speed.
He was following pretty close and you can hear the gusty winds and see the planes are in turbulent gusty conditions.
Not good conditions for flying slow.
I also wonder if the STOL technique of slipping aggressively to slow down gets pilots too comfortable flying uncoordinated while low and slow.
He should have gone around.
 
Initial Fix said:
stol drag has been around for years.

At Oshkosh it’s Monday, Thursday and Friday is night stol drag at the ultralight field. I’ve followed many of the races on YouTube. The flying skill is pretty amazing

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2022/january/11/must-attend-stol-events-for-2022
Click to expand...

The thing that worries me is the "anyone can do it! Come on, sign up!" mentality. This type of flying should be treated more like airshows or air racing, IMHO.
 
Ricky Bob said:
The thing that worries me is the "anyone can do it! Come on, sign up!" mentality. This type of flying should be treated more like airshows or air racing, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Said by a guy who also said, “If you’re not first, you’re last!” How do those two statements even make sense, Ricky? Shake & bake!
 
I saw the video of it. He was in a Cessna 140 on final behind the slower zenith. He was getting too close and proceeded to do what looked to me like some S turns to create space. Thats when the plane stalled and spun in. RIP to the pilot. There was a recent flyingmag article about him. He left behind a wife and 5 kids.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Thanks for correcting me on my phrasing
 
There may have also been some wake vortex effect from the Zenith in front of him. It appears that he was quite close to the Zenith. And possibly at a comparable or slightly lower altitude from where the Zenith was when it passed the same location earlier in it's approach. Wake vortex can be a factor, even from fairly light aircraft, especially if the trailing aircraft is in a slow flight regime with high angle of attack. Just another idea.
 


From comments...

UPDATE: There was a fatal stall spin accident Fri evening of a Cessna 140 while turning base to final and 's' turning to stay behind traffic ahead. This was NOT during a 'STOL Drag' event. Jb.
 
Last edited:
I saw the video too, he wasn't doing S-turns, there was a crosswind and they were coming in slipped to keep the nose aligned with the strip. He got too slow behind the Zenith and when the right wing let go he made the fatal instinctive error of cranking in left aileron which further increases the right wing angle of attack and there's no fixing it after that. Only takes a second and it's been happening to seasoned pilots for more than a hundred years. RIP

In my opinion this operating on the edge for the purpose of making a short landing has always been a part of flying skills but I'm not sure if it's appropriate in a competition environment with the adrenaline and desire to "win" aspect coupled with a crowd of expecting fans. Just seems to have a "hey ya'll watch this" flavor to it that isn't appropriate for aviation. I know, I'm old school, grew up taught to be super wary and cautious, to have a great respect and fear for what it was all about and what could potentially happen to you.
 
Silvaire said:
I saw the video too, he wasn't doing S-turns, there was a crosswind and they were coming in slipped to keep the nose aligned with the strip. He got too slow behind the Zenith and when the right wing let go he made the fatal instinctive error of cranking in left aileron which further increases the right wing angle of attack and there's no fixing it after that. Only takes a second and it's been happening to seasoned pilots for more than a hundred years. RIP
….
Click to expand...

This keeps happening because that’s what we do every time when a wing drops in cruise due to turbulence … we pick it up with opposite aileron …and we do it hundreds of times over and over again.
Compare that to typical , once in a blue moon, slow flight training when people will actually remember to use the rudder to counter any wing dropping tendencies …
 
Warmi said:
This keeps happening because that’s what we do every time when a wing drops in cruise due to turbulence … we pick it up with opposite aileron …and we do it hundreds of times over and over again.
Compare that to typical , once in a blue moon, slow flight training when people will actually remember to use the rudder to counter any wing dropping tendencies …
Click to expand...

That's why I said "instinctive" It's just a muscle memory reaction like playing a guitar, you can't help it. The only solution, that we have tried and proved over the last 100 years, is don't get yourself there. Always keep that margin, be aware of the conditions. Being in a competition does not help, the whole situation seems rushed and not well thought out.
 
I see a simple stall and one wing letting go. The key is that you can see a very high pitch angle just seconds before wing drops. No maneuvering or slip at the time. Tried to drop the nose but just wasn't enough to add energy to the flight. Still in a pre-stall even with the pitch angle change. Just way too slow, too low. There wasn't even much of a spin developed. Just a stall, wing drop, half turn. Sorry for the family, the pilot. . . but these things just beg for accidents to happen. On YouTube. It's not about skill, but judgment. A Cessna 140 just isn't going to be a good plane for this.
 
Last edited:
Let’s be honest, STOL competitions are nothing more than dick measuring events. They’re just pointless imho.

“Oh cool you landed in 30ft, let me try to land in 20ft.”

Just senseless. :(
 
RyanB said:
Let’s be honest, STOL competitions are nothing more than dick measuring events. They’re just pointless imho.

“Oh cool you landed in 30ft, let me try to land in 20ft.”

Just senseless. :(
Click to expand...

You could say that about all competition but that same competitive environment often inspires us and trains us to perform better than we would simply going out and doing whatever the activity is alone.

I enjoy plinking in the backyard but it takes a smallbore sillhouette rifle match to make me concentrate and perform at my best.
 
I used to enjoy the old STOL events they held at Valdez (usually with a 30-40 kt headwind) but it has sort of morphed into this Red-Bull-like uber-sports event with highly specialized , high powered ultralight kitplanes. I'm just not sure if the participants have a complete grasp of what can happen from 50 or 60 feet in the air. It's not the same as sno-boarding or even moto-cross riding. Maybe it's more akin to wing-suit stunts. So far they have managed to avert catastrophe for the most part but that last Arkan-STOL event seemed pretty sketchy if you want my opinion.

I'm all for freedom and people having fun but maybe they shouldn't have kids lined up along the strip as they do those hanging on the prop take-offs ya know? Steve Henry is a champion in this sport and there are YT videos where he came damn close to losing it on more than one occasion. You can tell there is a lot of adrenaline pumping.
 
Warmi said:
This keeps happening because that’s what we do every time when a wing drops in cruise due to turbulence … we pick it up with opposite aileron …and we do it hundreds of times over and over again.
Compare that to typical , once in a blue moon, slow flight training when people will actually remember to use the rudder to counter any wing dropping tendencies …
Click to expand...

This is why I teach to recognize the situations were pilots tend to "F***" this up and start thinking "This is how pilots screw this up"..."we are not going to stall". ie. Emergencys, maneuvering below 1000ft. Downwind approaches and turns, etc.

best line of this video...
DFU.GIF

In a later discussion with the pilot of this 205 he talked about his low approach to the runway and how fast he was. He said he had a friend killed in base to final turn, He was not going to make that mistake.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Silvaire said:
I used to enjoy the old STOL events they held at Valdez (usually with a 30-40 kt headwind) but it has sort of morphed into this Red-Bull-like uber-sports event with highly specialized , high powered ultralight kitplanes. I'm just not sure if the participants have a complete grasp of what can happen from 50 or 60 feet in the air. It's not the same as sno-boarding or even moto-cross riding. Maybe it's more akin to wing-suit stunts. So far they have managed to avert catastrophe for the most part but that last Arkan-STOL event seemed pretty sketchy if you want my opinion.
Click to expand...
It's like any other engineering driven sport, sailing, auto racing, etc., they'll always pushing the limits. It's not a bad thing, sometimes improvements trickle down to the recreational pilot/sailor/driver. Yeah, it's riskier than flying a C-172 on a $100 hamburger run, but it's arguably a lot more fun for some people. They do have their accidents, but for the most part the low speeds and altitudes limit the injuries.

It sounds like the crash that started this thread wasn't a participant but a spectator. A C-140 isn't the kind of plane you'd fly in an event like that.

Racerx said:
The liability of allowing an event like that on my property would be a hard pass from me as well.
Click to expand...

If the property owner isn't receiving money for hosting the event the recreational liability statutes every state has should protect him.
 
brcase said:
In a later discussion with the pilot of this 205 he talked about his low approach to the runway and how fast he was. He said he had a friend killed in base to final turn, He was not going to make that mistake.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen more accidents because people were afraid of stalling than actual stall accidents. I wonder if there’s a statistic on that somewhere.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’ve seen more accidents because people were afraid of stalling than actual stall accidents. I wonder if there’s a statistic on that somewhere.
Click to expand...
How does being afraid to stall lead to an accident?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top