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Blue Doughnut

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Blue Doughnut
Greetings all. I've been a long time lurker here, but I finally decided to break squelch and say hello.

Today marks a rare moment in life where I define an entirely new course for myself and my family. I have left the confines of Corporate America, and am walking away from a 6-figure salary to follow a life-long dream. As soon as I post this, I am walking out the door to take my first CFI lesson at a part 141 school.

I sold off some assets and have enough money to sustain the family through flight training, a reasonable period of job searching, and to bridge ourselves for a couple years while I get a little seniority and better pay, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't absolutely terrified.

I have around 1400 hours total time, but nothing of any real marketable value at this point. 1100 of that is from my military years (helicopters), and the balance is ASEL. My plan is to complete a helicopter CFI/CFII to qualify me for a particular job, and then hedge my bets by completing a Commercial AMEL and applying to a couple military helicopter to airline programs and see what sticks.

Thank you all for everything you share on this site. For better or worse, you have kept my passion alive. I'm hoping this is a cathartic moment and not the train wreck I fear it could be. Only time will tell.

In the words of the great Samuel L. Jackson, "Hold on to your butts..."
 
All I can say is you had us at "Blue Doughnut"...


But honestly congrats on the change of careers. I dream of doing something like you are doing but I honestly don't know if I'd have the guts.

Please keep us posted on your progress and good luck!
 
Congrats and the very best of luck to you! I pondered that move more than a few times in my past and was just not quite brave enough to take the leap.
 
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Good luck. Life is indeed, too short to be miserable in working life. Just remember, at the end of the day, it's just a job. Seeing how you were prior mil, as a mil guy myself I feel comfortable in reminding you that you'd be hard pressed to find the level of personal and non-economic satisfaction in fixed wing pax flying as you did in the military (assuming you ever did have that in the first place). Be prepared for the monotony and drudgerous aspects of the job to temper your enthusiasm for not being chained to a desk, especially at the pay scales the time-building turbine jobs offer up to people like you.

Don't lose the most for the least. This board is replete with people who have made aviation a lifestyle for themselves and their families, without wrecking their financial future and security. For some professional flying fits that mold, at least on this board the majority pursue it as an avocation. Only you can determine where that balance lies for your family. No go forth and sin no more. :D
 
Congrats and good luck!!

(Now, could you please post a picture of your future ex-wife?)
 
Man, I'm so close to doing the same thing... Luckily, I don't have a 6-figure salary calling my name. But trust me, I'm a thousandaire.
 
Good luck. I wish I was so brave.
 
Thanks all for the encouragement, memes, and insight!

Today turned out to be a bit of a swing and a miss, but I'll try not to take it as a cautionary sign. 15 minutes before my appointment I get a call asking if we could postpone until tomorrow :mad:. Of course, by that time I'm already at the airport, all dolled up with nowhere to go. I decided to head over to my buddy's place on the other side of the field to shoot the breeze. He's got a fixed wing training outfit. As I'm regaling his guys with my heroic tale of Jerry Maguire-esque corporate self immolation, one of them pipes up and asks why I'm not applying to Delta or Southwest. I told him most of my time is in helicopters, but apparently that's not an issue these days for former military aviators?! (assuming of course they have the requisite ratings and ATP written complete). Can anyone validate that? If that's true, I must be the last one to know about it (along with the rest of my cohort of former military helicopter pilots)...

Either way, I'll press on and hope tomorrow is a little more productive than today!
 
My wife of 14 years enjoyed the request for pictures. While she's been with me through COUNTLESS deployments, she did express at least a passing interest in scouring POA for her next future ex-husband should we fall victim to the many curses of commercial aviation!
 
Good luck, Blue Donut!

Your post is timely as I'm (and I'm sure most of Corporate America) burnt out from wearing many hats that were formerly worn by (now) ex-employees. The squeezing of productivity, increased stress, and reduction in quality of life has made me think about taking the bold step you just took. Unfortunately my "Go Pound Sand" fund is not established well enough to support a similar movement of my own.

Keep us posted on your progress!
 
Blue Doughnut said:
Thanks all for the encouragement, memes, and insight!

Today turned out to be a bit of a swing and a miss, but I'll try not to take it as a cautionary sign. 15 minutes before my appointment I get a call asking if we could postpone until tomorrow :mad:. Of course, by that time I'm already at the airport, all dolled up with nowhere to go. I decided to head over to my buddy's place on the other side of the field to shoot the breeze. He's got a fixed wing training outfit. As I'm regaling his guys with my heroic tale of Jerry Maguire-esque corporate self immolation, one of them pipes up and asks why I'm not applying to Delta or Southwest. I told him most of my time is in helicopters, but apparently that's not an issue these days for former military aviators?! (assuming of course they have the requisite ratings and ATP written complete). Can anyone validate that? If that's true, I must be the last one to know about it (along with the rest of my cohort of former military helicopter pilots)...

Either way, I'll press on and hope tomorrow is a little more productive than today!
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I'm sure Envoy would hire you in a heartbeat. They have a military rotor to regional program right now. What the heck were you doing to only get 1100 hrs rotor? Staff guy?
 
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I was a commissioned guy. Did my 7 years, 3 deployments a ton of staff time (my command time was all CONUS) and got out. It sucks, after all that time, you walk away without hitting any marketable threshold of flight time...
 
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Blue Doughnut said:
Today marks a rare moment in life where I define an entirely new course for myself and my family. I have left the confines of Corporate America, and am walking away from a 6-figure salary to follow a life-long dream. As soon as I post this, I am walking out the door to take my first CFI lesson at a part 141 school.

I sold off some assets and have enough money to sustain the family through flight training, a reasonable period of job searching, and to bridge ourselves for a couple years while I get a little seniority and better pay, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't absolutely terrified.

...

In the words of the great Samuel L. Jackson, "Hold on to your butts..."
Click to expand...

"If your goals don't scare you, they aren't big enough." - Unknown

Blue Doughnut said:
Today turned out to be a bit of a swing and a miss, but I'll try not to take it as a cautionary sign. 15 minutes before my appointment I get a call asking if we could postpone until tomorrow :mad:.
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Expect more of that! I'm going flying tomorrow and the last THREE MONTHS has been a swing and a miss. Life is going to test you to see how much you want it.

Love that you had the assets and took the swing.
Seriously.

I'm in nearly the same boat but I'm not leaving the IT job ... yet. Maybe ever. But we're big fans of debt-free living and zero-based budgets, and try to explain to folks how doing that is the key to living the life you want, instead of the life you have to live in order to make profit for someone else... usually a banker.

And that reminds me to go update the Airport Bum thread.

Don't undersell your military time if you're looking to fly commercial. I'm looking to teach because I want to teach. You might not need to. Depends on what you want. Talk to folks, there's a lot of interesting things going on these days.

Absolutely love the screen name.
 
Blue Doughnut said:
Thanks all for the encouragement, memes, and insight!

Today turned out to be a bit of a swing and a miss, but I'll try not to take it as a cautionary sign. 15 minutes before my appointment I get a call asking if we could postpone until tomorrow :mad:. Of course, by that time I'm already at the airport, all dolled up with nowhere to go. I decided to head over to my buddy's place on the other side of the field to shoot the breeze. He's got a fixed wing training outfit. As I'm regaling his guys with my heroic tale of Jerry Maguire-esque corporate self immolation, one of them pipes up and asks why I'm not applying to Delta or Southwest. I told him most of my time is in helicopters, but apparently that's not an issue these days for former military aviators?! (assuming of course they have the requisite ratings and ATP written complete). Can anyone validate that? If that's true, I must be the last one to know about it (along with the rest of my cohort of former military helicopter pilots)...

Either way, I'll press on and hope tomorrow is a little more productive than today!
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard BD. I can offer a little insight on pilot hiring. The legacies are not yet in a spot where you can write your RW time in to cover the FW turbine time requirements of most airlines (formally or informally 1000 hours. Formally or informally as PIC in some places, but this one is slowly starting to drop away). The biggest shop I can think of that publicly assigns value mil RW time is JetBlue. You have a real shot there once you reach your 1500TT and pay for all the odds and ends required for the ATP (ATP-CTP, 50ME, 250 PIC in an airplane, checkride, etc) as long as your app is smooth and you can maybe find an internal LOR.

With that said...You can probably score an interview at any regional you want in the next several months as long as you get your 25 hours multi-time and you're not a criminal. They'll top off your ME time and GIVE you the ATP-CTP and ATP cert which must be a big lure for a guy who is currently burning savings. First year regional pay is up into the $40s and $50s now which is double of what it was at the bottom. As soon as you're done training at the regional publish your apps to the LCCs and Majors and see if someone bites.

What area do you live in?
 
Welcome! I am doing the same thing, though not walking away from my current job till I get my CFII, which will hopefully be around December.

Life is too short to play it safe, congrats on realizing that and going after your dream
 
denverpilot said:
"If your goals don't scare you, they aren't big enough." - Unknown.
Click to expand...

I like that one. A couple others I use in business:

Whether you think you can, or can't - your right. Henry Ford
Whatever your thinking, think bigger.
If you don't try, you've already failed.
 
Guys, thank you all again for the feedback and thoughts. I really appreciate your perspectives, and am especially grateful for input from those with a current understanding of hiring trends, etc.

I logged my first 1.6 toward the RW CFI this morning. I really wasn't sure what to expect given that I haven't manipulated the controls of a helicopter in years, AND given the R22's reputation as a squirrelly aircraft. I really am surprised that despite lacking a fully refined control touch, it really came back quickly. With that, I don't think safe operation of the aircraft is going to be the big concern. It's just going to be a matter of putting in the work, studying, sponging it all up. We also decided to try tagging on a RW ATP rating as well since I'll have all the requirements satisfied by the time we've completing this curriculum.

On the FW front, the plan is to still pick up the Commercial AMEL. I am very fortunate to have a friend with a multi engine aircraft and an MEL rating, so that one should come quickly enough, and I'll spend a couple weeks turning money and fuel into noise to hit the 25 hour ME threshold.
 
Sounds like a blast. Even with the usual problems that crop up, and learning frustration, it's an incredibly fun way to spend time flying, chasing those tickets.
 
All those people who look at you and treat you like you are crazy for doing this? Just remember they are jealous. Maybe this will work out for you, maybe not. But at least you are brave enough to try.

Good luck!
 
Brave or stupid, only time will tell. Despite the uncertainty, I am feeling much better about life in general. What's the point in being highly compensated if it means you have to neglect your family, let work consume every waking moment, and impact you physically? I've come to realize (I know this sounds like a platitude, but) NO job is worth it.

Anyway, the flight training is going very well. Second time back in the helicopter, I almost feel like I'm at home. I even got to show my instructor a couple combat maneuvering flight techniques which was fun. I promise I won't bog this thread down with rotary-wing stuff, I just opted to get these add-ons first since I already have the commercial instrument RW ticket. I hope to be back into FW flying in about a month.
 
I, for one, would enjoy reading about fling-wing stuff... after all, they were my only ride back to the ship in case the fixed wing failed me! :) Keep on posting, please!
 
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Keep the RW stuff coming, it's interesting to many of us.
 
Welp, I'm back with an update. I took a couple days off after my first two flights so I could take the family out of town and relax/regroup. I went VFR-direct from the office on my last day to the flight training center, and we really haven't had time to decompress. This doesn't sound like much, but I'm coming from a workplace that didn't really observe holidays, and often consumed some amount of nearly every weekend. It really was nice to get out of town and do nothing of any consequence for a couple days.

I came back this morning fresh-faced and bright-eyed. We strapped on the venerable R22 and off we went. As far as the actual flying goes, the two day reprieve worked wonders. I was flying almost as proficiently as when I flew my last RW flight 10 years ago. (Don't read this as hubris, I just have twice the flight time and 7 extra years in RW aircraft than FW, so it's bound to feel a little more natural, I'm just surprised from a motor-skill perspective how quickly the control touch came back). Long story short here, we decided to start integrating the CFII tasks in these training flights to save on the total hobbs time for this self-funded adventure of mine. Now let's talk about a perishable skill that I'm certain WON'T be coming back as quickly... I've done the normal simulated IFR proficiency tasks for FW BFRs and checkrides, etc, but it's been a looooong time since I've actually flown an IFR flight. My primary aircraft in the military was prohibited from intentional flight into IMC, and I never really chased down the IFR rating for FW, which means my last instrument flight was on a UH-1 back in 2003. I anticipate being a little more than rusty. Fortuitously enough though I've been in the books in preparation for the FW IFR add-on, so I hope I'll at least be procedurally prepared if nothing else.

Now on to the ground schooling... Over the span of my 15 or so years in aviation, I've always been the student. Like most, I hold the military IPs and civilian CFIs in high regard as the standard bearers of our chosen field/hobby. Don't tell any of my future students if I end up having any, but I never viewed myself in that light. I managed to cultivate a working knowledge to ensure I was tactically and technically proficient, but Blue Doughnut and "standard-bearer of the aviation profession" have never been entirely synonymous. So I was a little outside of my comfort zone teaching my first lesson plan today. The planned 45 minute lesson was rounding the end of it's first hour and I was almost done with my dissertation on part 1 of a 4 part lesson. Note to self: less is more. So I'll be presenting my second lesson using a more bulletized format to allow more flexibility in the degree of topical granularity.

All in all, I think I'll be ready for the flight maneuver portion of the checkride in about 6-8 more hours. The rest of the coming weeks will be spent buried in books and developing lesson plans. I might also try to pick off some low hanging fruit and get the FOI written out of the way early next week.


A Rhetorical Aside:

These are the strange cosmic confluences that get thrown at you only once you've convinced yourself you've found your new direction in life. While giving my lesson this morning, my phone rings and goes to voicemail. Turns out, it's a job that I applied to a year ago, great pay, benefits, location, blah blah blah, and they need me...urgently. My resume had been floating in the Taleo Talent Acquisition Portal (a.k.a. where resumes and dreams go to die, for those who are unfamiliar) for an ENTIRE YEAR, and they decide to call NOW?! :mad:. Do I take a gamble and hope a change in venue and corporate culture will address the dissatisfaction I've been wrestling with? Also over the course of the week, I received 2 other informal offers for comparable positions- one in my last industry, and one as far away from it as you could ever imagine.

Blegh. I started this for a reason, I'm going to see it through and let the next few weeks develop into whatever they will be. If nothing else, I desperately need to relax and enjoy the ride more than I have been.
 
Blue Doughnut said:
While giving my lesson this morning, my phone rings and goes to voicemail. Turns out, it's a job that I applied to a year ago, great pay, benefits, location, blah blah blah, and they need me...urgently. My resume had been floating in the Taleo Talent Acquisition Portal (a.k.a. where resumes and dreams go to die, for those who are unfamiliar) for an ENTIRE YEAR, and they decide to call NOW?! :mad:. Do I take a gamble and hope a change in venue and corporate culture will address the dissatisfaction I've been wrestling with? Also over the course of the week, I received 2 other informal offers for comparable positions- one in my last industry, and one as far away from it as you could ever imagine.
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Well, you don't have the job yet, and it never hurts to interview. I know you were looking to go all-in this change of direction. But it's always good to have options. I'd go and interview, go through the routine and if they offer you a job, THEN start contemplating what you'd prefer to do.
 
I completely agree. At this point, I think the best thing to do is run every lead to ground and evaluate the options as they develop. That makes for a lame thread in the end, but it is the smart thing to do.
 
Blue Donut. Quick question. Why not get paid flying medical helicopter flights? Are you below the insurance required hours to be PIC? In my area, I got to chat with a retired military pilot that only wanted part-time work and was deep into full time. He indicated that there weren't enough pilots and the only ones that could qualify and meet insurance requirements were ex-military.
 
danhagan said:
Blue Donut. Quick question. Why not get paid flying medical helicopter flights? Are you below the insurance required hours to be PIC? In my area, I got to chat with a retired military pilot that only wanted part-time work and was deep into full time. He indicated that there weren't enough pilots and the only ones that could qualify and meet insurance requirements were ex-military.
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It's not just an insurance requirement, it's an accreditation requirement. Most of your major air ambulance companies fall under the Commission on Accreditation of Medical Transport Systems. To qualify for CAMTS certification, pilots must have:
comm / inst 1500 hrs TT, 1200 helo, 1000 PIC helo, 500 turbine, & 100 hrs NVG. That's bare minimum. Most helo EMS companies require 2000 TT for insurance purposes. I'd say your base average is around 4000 hrs.

For the OP's situation, I think the military rotor to airline program would be his best bet in getting into professional flying. He'd really have to like flying helicopters to put in the time / money and get hired on that route.
 
Velocity173 said:
It's not just an insurance requirement, it's an accreditation requirement. Most of your major air ambulance companies fall under the Commission on Accreditation of Medical Transport Systems. To qualify for CAMTS certification, pilots must have:
comm / inst 1500 hrs TT, 1200 helo, 1000 PIC helo, 500 turbine, & 100 hrs NVG. That's bare minimum. Most helo EMS companies require 2000 TT for insurance purposes. I'd say your base average is around 4000 hrs.

For the OP's situation, I think the military rotor to airline program would be his best bet in getting into professional flying. He'd really have to like flying helicopters to put in the time / money and get hired on that route.
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Yeah, you really need to have had a career flying helicopters before you can have a career flying helicopters...

My RW CFI and CFII ratings are for one specific job for which I've got an internal recommendation. The HR and QA guys are just waiting for me to get the sign off in order to get the on-boarding process kicked off. Is this the 30 year career position? Who knows. It's a good, solid position with decent pay, benefits, etc. And at the end of the day, the nature of the work is much more engaging than the soul-sucking corporate existence I left. Having said that, I am pursuing all available avenues. The transition to the regionals is still very interesting. I'm making April the FW CMEL rating month.

On the non-flying front, I did have a preliminary interview with the company that contacted me the other day, and that went very well. We'll see how it all plays out. I just think it's important that I take this time to regroup and enjoy occupying myself with something other than obsessing about the uncertainty.

I had a great flight this morning doing some confined area stuff, settling with power, and a litany of other things completely irrelevant to the FW world. I'm at 8 hours now, and I'm coming to the end of the flying portion of my training. From this point out, it's all test prep, practicing instruction, etc, etc. I'll say one thing, my hat's off to you guys who go from zero to hero in one fell swoop! I don't know how you guys manage getting your CFI ratings straight out of the shoot after the PPL and commercial ratings.
 
denverpilot said:
The good news is, training twins in FW drop like a rock with power back on both and both of them windmilling, so a RW pilot will feel right at home. :)
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It's the lack of a chin bubble in twins through which to view the landing area (read: crash site) that freaks me out a little, but I guess that's what training is for...
 
Blue Doughnut said:
It's the lack of a chin bubble in twins through which to view the landing area (read: crash site) that freaks me out a little, but I guess that's what training is for...
Click to expand...

Yeah, just flare hard and guess. LOL. If you get close it won't hurt too much. :) You can peek out the left window and look down that way. Hahahaha.
 
Alright, for anyone suffering through all the helicopter crap in this thread, I'm going to offer a short reprieve before I go back to training tomorrow. We decided it was high time to shake the dust off the plane, AND introduce the baby to flying! We took a 15 minute run north for an early dinner. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but I'm happy to say she didn't hate it. In fact, she didn't really care one way or the other (which I'm taking as a good thing). All in all, it was a beautiful day and a fantastic flight. I even got a "nice landing" compliment from the tower at a Class C field for a nice little cherry on the sunday.

(Oh, and before that, tower had to revise direction she gave someone because "the tiger was a lot faster than I anticipated". I'm just sayin' :rolleyes:...)
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Hi all. Just checking in with an update. Took the FOI exam today, so I'm one step closer to my goal. I used the Gleim study material (because that's what they had in stock), and I'll say I was very happy with it if anyone is evaluating options. Read the chapter, take the quiz, lather, rinse, repeat as desired. While I made a deliberate effort NOT to study "to" the exam, I found that reviewing the quiz questions basically exposed me to the entire question bank, so come test time there were no surprises. It was a nice, straight-forward exam.

So with that out of the way, I am left to deal with a little curveball that may actually end up in me earning the CFI and-II sooner than anticipated. My CFII has accepted a position out west and will be leaving within two weeks. That leaves my flight school without a CFII. So with that, we developed a campaign plan that will get the hard requirements out of the way prior to his departure. The flying portion of my training is basically done. I now have 10 hours dual instruction in the R22 (if anyone is looking for an R22 PIC, look no further :cool:). I have the CFI and CFII training essentially complete which means the next couple weeks will be ground instruction and eval prep. The only wrinkle in the plan is that we are leaving tomorrow for Sun 'n Fun, so next week will have to be self-guided study. The following week we'll hit ground school hard and heavy, and I'm aiming to take the CFI written mid to late week that week. Once that's done, I've asked for 2 mock checkrides which can be done with another instructor, then the following week is checkride week. CFI, a couple days later CFII, and a day or two later ATP.

Just to make sure this post isn't entirely wasted on helicopters, I got a call the other day after landing from a flight in the Tiger. The voicemail asked for "the owner of the Grumman Tiger" which initially had me freaking out thinking I busted the Class B or something during my flight. Turns out it was someone who saw my plane on the field and was interested in potentially buying it. During my years of lurking here, I never discussed the work I put into it, but I've spent a ton of money and a lot of TLC in getting the plane where it is today. I have VERY mixed feelings about getting rid of it. I mentioned to him during our discussion that I was going to work on the Commercial MEL, and he said I had a Baron E55 he was thinking about selling on the field. If you've been following this thread from the beginning, I'll admit you probably have a point if you're thinking "this guy has no occupation and a finite supply of legal tender, why the hell is he talking about a Baron?!" To that, I have no good answer, but if I can walk away with a twin for a good deal with my Tiger in trade, and pay cash, I'd have a nice time-builder to haul the family in. (As a slight aside, I have an LLC that brings in some money so it's not all doom and gloom, but still the rational person probably wouldn't think "buy a Baron" after leaving full time employment). So anyway, I'll just play that one by ear and see what develops. In the mean time, it's off to Sun 'n Fun and a bunch of studying for me!
 
@Blue Doughnut, not sure if you're aware, but the 121 regional airlines lately have been on a kick to recruit and train former military helo guys.

Most of the programs will help pay for civilian hours if you need them to get to the ATP fixed wing mins, and CTP/ATP training is included in the deal when you're hired at the airline. Here's an example of just one of the offers:

https://www.envoyair.com/pilots/rotor-transition-program/
https://www.envoyair.com/2016/11/07...lots-join-the-envoy-rotor-transition-program/

If you have thoughts about a fixed wing airline career (or even just making a temporary stop at the regional airlines to get your ATP and some multiengine jet time in your logbook), this is a pretty damn good option (other regionals have their own flavors of this deal with differing offers that you can chop around).
 
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