Marriage Counseling/Therapy

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PickedTheWrongOne

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Hello fellow aviators. I’m at a low point in my life/marriage and am about to try marriage counseling with my wife. I’ll save you all the details, but is there anything about marriage counseling that could be detrimental to my medical in the future?

I’d honestly rather get a divorce and be set back a decade financially than give up flying.
 
MANY of us have been there.

I’m not a med person so there are lots of folks more qualified to comment.

My take is that unless both of you want to go to counseling AND intend to address
the Issues involved it will not work.

It might be an idea to begin with a non- psych person to minimize compromising your Medical. I know someone that did not do that and received a diagnosis of something like “ Situational Depression”. It was very apparent to all that knew him. It was an issue with the feds.

Do not underestimate Divorce and only relate to it in a financial way. In many
cases it is a very life changing event.

Many women tend to resent flying and often refer to the aircraft as
“ The Mistress”. Often this is due to the costs of time and money involved.

You don’t need a partner that is an ardent pilot. A good passenger can be much better than an argumentative “First Officer”.
 
marriage counseling has a poor track record, at least with my peer group. 0% track record as a matter of fact, n=12 ish if my memory serves me correctly, which isn't insignificant for an anecdotal number. Divorce sucks royally if you're the saver and the eventual non-custodial parent in the relationship. But there is life after divorce, financially wrecked as it may be for a while. I wouldn't bother with counseling.
 
We lay this out in one of our articles for Flying.

But essentially as long as the issue doesn't arise the the level of a medical diagnosis then you do not need to report family or marriage counseling.
 
I wouldn’t even consider messing around with another woman unless she was married.

That way we could make two people very unhappy, wreck a half dozen kids, make a couple lawyers very happy… and have the best six months of our lives!!

Plus one on considering counseling a very low odds preposition… A woman I was with suggested it. I asked if she was sure? Said fine. Was TONS of fun, dear heavens, hilarious! Was good for two sessions… I thought it rather fun.
 
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I'm personally always suspicious of psychology practitioners. My suspicions arise out of what I call, universality concerns. I believe someone qualified to heal broken bones is just as effective treating someone in a US urban area as they are treating say a nomadic aboriginal wanderer on the African plains of something. Not so with psychology. In any culture there are traditions, expectations, maybe enforced religious norms that can interfere with all of that.

It's too bad really. I believe we are all fundamentally emotional creatures that are only capable of limited logic and the degree that anyone is capable of logic varies from individual to individual. We all harbor some wackiness, it's probably a survival mechanism. Get around a very dogmatic but confused ideological psychologist and it may be the end. I'm not saying don't do it. Some things need to be off the radar. Just my 2 cents.
 
So long as no pathological insurance code is billed, you need not report this. Be UPFRONT about this with the counselor.
If any doubt either (1) go elsewhere, or (2)pay cash so that there is no incentive for him/her to bill insurance at all.
 
PickedTheWrongOne said:
but is there anything about marriage counseling that could be detrimental to my medical in the future?
Click to expand...
Assume anything you say will be raised in a [divorce] court session as well as being sent to the FAA [perhaps by an angry soon to be ex-spouse].
Doesn't mean it will.
But to be proactive, you may not want to say anything during "session" that could clip your wings under the extremely erroneous assumption that session notes are somehow privileged or confidential.
They are not.
 
bbchien said:
So long as no pathological insurance code is billed, you need not report this. Be UPFRONT about this with the counselor.
If any doubt either (1) go elsewhere, or (2)pay cash so that there is no incentive for him/her to bill insurance at all.
Click to expand...

Second this advice but in all bold and caps. I will add that she has already made up her mind and counseling is waste of time and resources. Went through three attorneys before finding a female gorilla attorney that owns a lamb suit. I traded all the property for custody on my three kids. First to file gives you an edge.
 
Commendations on taking the custody option. It won’t be easy but those that have

done it have no regrets.

Suggestion: If the D goes forward try not to criticize your ex to the kids.
It won’t be long and they will figure things out for themselves.
 
PickedTheWrongOne said:
I’d honestly rather get a divorce and be set back a decade financially than give up flying.
Click to expand...
Well then, don't waste anyone's time with counseling.

Divorce doesn't cost half of what you own, it costs everything.

And I'll second what was just said above. Do not trash talk your ex to your kids. Take the high road, as painful as that will be at times. Let her do the trashing. Kids will always end up rooting for the underdog.

As for getting custody it depends on the state laws. In WA you can prove she is a stark raving lunatic crack ho and they'll still give her enough custody to ruin your next 18 years.
 
I would also say it’s very important to not bad mouth your spouse to your children, it actually messes up the children and causes mental issues, children will have self esteem issues and lack of confidence, issues with future relationships too.

A lot of counseling is crap, if you are not feeling amazing after your first session, fire that person immediately. Pick a counselor that goes by your first name only and accepts cash. DM me for recommendations.

Both parties need to want the marriage to work, counseling will help with yourself, to control emotions better with the goal of being more respectful and understanding to/of your partner. You can decide if that’s helpful or not.
 
hindsight2020 said:
marriage counseling has a poor track record, at least with my peer group. 0% track record as a matter of fact, n=12 ish if my memory serves me correctly, which isn't insignificant for an anecdotal number. Divorce sucks royally if you're the saver and the eventual non-custodial parent in the relationship. But there is life after divorce, financially wrecked as it may be for a while. I wouldn't bother with counseling.
Click to expand...
Counseling at least helped my ex and I to get on the same page on whether to get a divorce or not. Whether that saved any money, who knows?
 
If you've already given up on the marriage, counselling won't help at all. Counselling only helps if both parties are committed to remaining in the marriage, but they want to figure out how not to be so miserable with each other. Even then, it only works if a). the counsellor is trying to keep the two of you together (you might be surprised how many don't care or actively root for splitting if either of you aren't "happy" every moment) and b). the counsellor is a good counsellor and capable of remaining impartial.

Does your wife want to divorce as well, or is she the one asking for marriage counselling and wanting to work it out? You may want to consider reconsidering divorce, as it is not a panacea that will fix everything. This will affect the rest of your life or at least a very large chunk of it, not just "set you back a decade". It will also affect the rest of your kids' lives, especially if the divorce is acrimonious. Unless one of you is planning on abandoning your kids, you'll always be stuck with dealing with her as well.

As far as counselling being reportable, I don't believe marriage counselling is ever reportable unless the counsellor gives you a prescription/diagnosis, and that shouldn't be hard to avoid if you're upfront about not wanting that result. You can also try talking with a pastor/clergy member (choose carefully) for completely non-reportable counselling. (Someone please correct me if pastoral counselling is reportable!)
 
I'll add to the chorus saying that both parties need to want it for it to be successful. I'll also say the success rate is determined by the counselor as well. I disagree with the notion that you should feel great after counselling and if not, fire the counselor. You are going to counselling because your marriage is not working. Your marriage is not working because something is wrong with it (maybe you, maybe her, maybe both of you). You want to find a counsellor that will find those problems and point them out to both of you in a fair and honest way. If he picks out your issues, you will probably feel like crap. The counsellor will also need to be able to show you ways to fix the problems in the marriage (and some are disinclined to do so).

PickedTheWrongOne said:
Hello fellow aviators. I’m at a low point in my life/marriage and am about to try marriage counseling with my wife...

I’d honestly rather get a divorce and be set back a decade financially than give up flying.
Click to expand...

Given your attitude here, I'd recommend first deciding that you want to save the marriage before the first counselling session because if you go into it with the attitude "I'll just get the divorce if it doesn't work out," you will end up just divorcing. As Henry Ford once said, "Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right."
 
My wife asked me to participate in counseling about 12 years ago. I think it raised my awareness about how she comprehended things I said, and vice-versa. Not a bad thing for life partners to check on and having an objective moderator was useful. We’ll celebrate our 38th anniversary in a few months. Our marriage is in a good place. It’s a journey.
 
I'd suggest a marriage intensive (ie a Three day weekend course). I don't have numbers on success rate versus once a week counseling, but have seen/heard little success from the once a week counseling.

I will say that marriage counseling in my first marriage did set me up for more success in my second marriage (my first wife did not want to work on our marriage).
 
PickedTheWrongOne said:
I’d honestly rather get a divorce and be set back a decade financially than give up flying.
Click to expand...

Future flight? :)

upload_2023-3-20_9-40-54.png
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
Assume anything you say will be raised in a [divorce] court session as well as being sent to the FAA [perhaps by an angry soon to be ex-spouse].
Doesn't mean it will.
But to be proactive, you may not want to say anything during "session" that could clip your wings under the extremely erroneous assumption that session notes are somehow privileged or confidential.
They are not.
Click to expand...

Why would something said in a marriage counseling session, in front of a licensed therapist or a member of the clergy, not be considered privileged or confidential?
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Why would something said in a marriage counseling session, in front of a licensed therapist or a member of the clergy, not be considered privileged or confidential?
Click to expand...
So governmentally, it goes like this: "We demand for certification purposes access to this data or we are going to deny".

Then the FAA has a copy of it protected only by FOIA. The plaintiff attorney (divorce atty) sues, and get the court to order the record. Voila! it's open season.
 
bbchien said:
The plaintiff attorney (divorce atty) sues, and get the court to order the record. Voila! it's open season.
Click to expand...

Wow. I'd think that the Court would respect the privilege, even if the FAA does not. SMDH...
 
kontiki said:
I'm personally always suspicious of psychology practitioners. My suspicions arise out of what I call, universality concerns. I believe someone qualified to heal broken bones is just as effective treating someone in a US urban area as they are treating say a nomadic aboriginal wanderer on the African plains of something. Not so with psychology. In any culture there are traditions, expectations, maybe enforced religious norms that can interfere with all of that.

It's too bad really. I believe we are all fundamentally emotional creatures that are only capable of limited logic and the degree that anyone is capable of logic varies from individual to individual. We all harbor some wackiness, it's probably a survival mechanism. Get around a very dogmatic but confused ideological psychologist and it may be the end. I'm not saying don't do it. Some things need to be off the radar. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
I interact every day with a psychologist, have several as friends, and even took intro courses at college decades ago. It works because people are the same; the ones that aren't have serious issues that cannot be helped. A decent therapist can really help. Related to the original topic, the counsellor we went to decades back did point out that the problem was largely with one of us. Luckily, it wasn't me, but we split, all for the better.
Someone acting like a tech support 'bot isn't likely to help, and I know those exist, though I don't know any personally.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Someone acting like a tech support 'bot isn't likely to help, and I know those exist, though I don't know any personally.
Click to expand...

As an outsider, I get the impression the 'bots outnumber the good ones, but I could be wrong.
 
"I have a life, she has a life, and we have a life together."

Wisdom to understand that, and how to rightly divide & join those three things together is missed by many.
 
bbchien said:
So governmentally, it goes like this: "We demand for certification purposes access to this data or we are going to deny".

Then the FAA has a copy of it protected only by FOIA. The plaintiff attorney (divorce atty) sues, and get the court to order the record. Voila! it's open season.
Click to expand...
Dang!!!

Almost like you "Been there ... Done that".
 
Don't give them your insurance card or give them your SSN number they come up with some bogus diagnoses to get your insurance pay more money. Find someone who doesn't accept any insurance that way you know no way can try and bill your insurance.

Insurance will only pay if there is a diagnosis.
 
Then the FAA has a copy of it protected only by FOIA. The plaintiff attorney (divorce atty) sues, and get the court to order the record. Voila! it's open season.[/QUOTE]


going through just this, when subpoena the FOIA the FAA office claims they treat a subpoena as if it were a foia request and do not divulge new information
 
Maverick007 said:
Then the FAA has a copy of it protected only by FOIA. The plaintiff attorney (divorce atty) sues, and get the court to order the record. Voila! it's open season.
Click to expand...


going through just this, when subpoena the FOIA the FAA office claims they treat a subpoena as if it were a foia request and do not divulge new information[/QUOTE]

Can a subpoena overrule the privacy act? I don't think so its like using a court to subpoena classified information. That was tried when those area 51 workers tried to sue the Government to discover what they were exposed to. Supreme court ruled in favor of Clinton, or Obama don't remember which president. The case was dismissed.
 
PickedTheWrongOne said:
Hello fellow aviators. I’m at a low point in my life/marriage and am about to try marriage counseling with my wife. I’ll save you all the details, but is there anything about marriage counseling that could be detrimental to my medical in the future?

I’d honestly rather get a divorce and be set back a decade financially than give up flying.
Click to expand...

If you are on or go to Basic Med you can see all the marriage counselors you want and not worry about it.
 
Just to add another perspective. Wife and I were wound around the axle on a set of pretty big decisions and it was leading to a lot of frustration for us. Met with a coach/counselor 3 times and found our way to a compromise solution that we're both pretty stoked about. Feels 100% different than it did a month ago.

Well worth the cash to have someone outside of the situation help talk us thorugh it, starting with values (what's most important) and then weighing possible solutions against that.
 
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