Mark as "inop"?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
I have an EGT/CHT gauge similar to this: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/westduals1kit.php

The EGT stopped working, but CHT is still functional. I have an IFR checkride coming up. Do I need to still mark the instrument as inop even though CHT is still usable (and valuable)?

I also have a fuel pressure gauge that "works", but it doesn't go all the way down to zero (the needle will not go below the half way mark, even when the plane is shut off).
 
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CC268 said:
I have an EGT/CHT gauge similar to this: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/westduals1kit.php

The EGT stopped working, but CHT is still functional. I have an IFR checkride coming up. Do I need to still mark the instrument as inop even though CHT is still usable (and valuable)?

I also have a fuel pressure gauge that "works", but it doesn't go all the way down to zero (the needle will not go below the half way mark, even when the plane is shut off).
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What does the MEL for your aircraft say?
 
It's been a long strange day/week when I see MEL on my computer screen and my mind flashes to a to a guy running diner in PHX who employs a waitress who liked to say "Kiss My Grits".
 
SkyDog58 said:
I really doubt that he has an approved MEL. 91.213 is what he needs to look at.
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Agree, I was about to add that as I reviewed my AFM but you beat me to it!

Also,if you placard it as inop, I believe the instrument needs to be disconnected so it truly is inop....
 
They aren't required VFR day instruments, but the way I read 91.213 (which I did read by the way), is that you either have to remove it or "deactivate" it and placard it as inop. That is a shame considering I like to be able to monitor my CHT.
 
CC268 said:
They aren't required VFR day instruments, but the way I read 91.213 (which I did read by the way), is that you either have to remove it or "deactivate" it and placard it as inop. That is a shame considering I like to be able to monitor my CHT.
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What does deactivate mean to you?

Placarding is easy.
 
Can't you put an "INOP" sticker over the inoperative half? I've got got a 3 in 1 gauge with an inop sticker over just one part.
 
FredFenster said:
Can't you put an "INOP" sticker over the inoperative half? I've got got a 3 in 1 gauge with an inop sticker over just one part.
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That is what I was going to do originally ha.
 
Guys, I would prefer that this thread doesn't devolve into the typical PoA **** show. It get's old. Offer up your genuine advice or GTFO. Thanks. This is directed at no one in particular.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Seems to me you could meet the intent of the FAR simply by disconnecting the EGT lead to the gauge.


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Your straight forward advice is much appreciated. Thank you sir.
 
CC268 said:
Guys, I would prefer that this thread doesn't devolve into the typical PoA **** show. It get's old. Offer up your genuine advice or GTFO. Thanks. This is directed at no one in particular.
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Sorry. Too many years spent getting junior mechanics to think and talk through a problem rather than spoon feeding them. If my technique is not to the liking of folks here, I will desist.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Sorry. Too many years spent getting junior mechanics to think and talk through a problem rather than spoon feeding them. If my technique is not to the liking of folks here, I will desist.
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I get it, but in an online setting it sure comes off like your belittling someone. Sometimes the FARs aren't exactly an "easy read" and some genuine help or interpretation is all that is needed.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Is that a serious response?

Yes. Agree CHT probably isn’t on an MEL (if one exists) but I could see a fuel pressure indicator potentially being on one...


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FAA guidance is also if you "inop" it, disconnect it, and it also needs a logbook entry... and many A&Ps will also say it has to be repaired at next annual... YMMV...

Just passing that extra bit along... have a chat with the DPE and see what they say... "Airworthiness" is an FAA hot-button item on checkrides around here these days, and missing the logbook entry would be a halt to the ride.
 
denverpilot said:
LOL. Welcome to Reddit. Three drink minimum. :)
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I have practically zero knowledge of reddit. In fact, reading that nonsense probably accounted for 75% of the time I’ve spent on reddit. Besides POA, my online time is spent on other aviation related sites, news sites, travel sites, and a few other odds and ends. Not much for reading what the great unwashed have to say. That’s why I’m not on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I have practically zero knowledge of reddit. In fact, reading that nonsense probably accounted for 75% of the time I’ve spent on reddit. Besides POA, my online time is spent on other aviation related sites, news sites, travel sites, and a few other odds and ends. Not much for reading what the great unwashed have to say. That’s why I’m not on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc.
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Yeah I started lurking various internet aviation stuff to see what students and instructors challenges are a while ago. Reddit seems to have the most utter disasters and dumpster fires of them all. LOL.
 
Bell206 said:
Just curious. Why not have these items fixed before the check ride instead of going through the inop routine?
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I’d really like to...but we just got done spending a boat load of money on fixing other avionics issues. But your right...EGT/CHT gauge is relatively cheap. Fuel pressure gauge does work but as with a lot of these old needle gauges it is a bit wonky for lack of better terms.
 
denverpilot said:
FAA guidance is also if you "inop" it, disconnect it, and it also needs a logbook entry... and many A&Ps will also say it has to be repaired at next annual... YMMV...

Just passing that extra bit along... have a chat with the DPE and see what they say... "Airworthiness" is an FAA hot-button item on checkrides around here these days, and missing the logbook entry would be a halt to the ride.
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*sigh*...okay I will need to find an A&P available...checkride is gonna be soon. Amazing how difficult it is to have a checkride worthy airplane. All I can say is I can’t wait to be done with this checkride so I never have to take another one in my own airplane again.
 
CC268 said:
*sigh*...okay I will need to find an A&P available...checkride is gonna be soon. Amazing how difficult it is to have a checkride worthy airplane. All I can say is I can’t wait to be done with this checkride so I never have to take another one in my own airplane again.
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I assume what you’re saying here is that it isn’t your airplane? Look up the guidance. The owner/operator MAY be able to make that entry. Don’t make it too hard or overthink it.

Most folks will help inop something properly if that’s the plan before a checkride. Often free if they’re going to get paid to fix it in a few weeks anyway. Nobody wants to see you stop a checkride for a paperwork issue, nobody. People will help.

Best to fix it if possible of course, but sometimes it’s not needed by regulation and it croaked and you’re out of time and you want a squeaky clean airplane and logs — so it’s not a problem and you don’t have to worry about it until checkride is over with.

Everybody knows “checkride stress” and most of us have been there, done that, with some silly airplane issue. These poor airplanes are old and stuff breaks. It’s like trying to keep a classic car running on race day. Everybody in the pit will help.
 
denverpilot said:
I assume what you’re saying here is that it isn’t your airplane? Look up the guidance. The owner/operator MAY be able to make that entry. Don’t make it too hard or overthink it.

Most folks will help inop something properly if that’s the plan before a checkride. Often free if they’re going to get paid to fix it in a few weeks anyway. Nobody wants to see you stop a checkride for a paperwork issue, nobody. People will help.

Best to fix it if possible of course, but sometimes it’s not needed by regulation and it croaked and you’re out of time and you want a squeaky clean airplane and logs — so it’s not a problem and you don’t have to worry about it until checkride is over with.

Everybody knows “checkride stress” and most of us have been there, done that, with some silly airplane issue. These poor airplanes are old and stuff breaks. It’s like trying to keep a classic car running on race day. Everybody in the pit will help.
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No its my airplane. We plan to fix it all, but my checkride is in a few weeks and with most A&Ps being busy it’s gonna be tough to get both fixed in that time.

Idk we will see what can be done.

Thanks to everyone for the help.
 
CC268 said:
but we just got done spending a boat load of money on fixing other avionics issues
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A tip: allocate 5-10% of any proposed "boat load" budget to fix the "inoperative" issues first. It worked well with my old clients and kept these type of issues to the bare minimum. As there's always something to tweak on an aircraft.
 
Bell206 said:
A tip: allocate 5-10% of any proposed "boat load" budget to fix the "inoperative" issues first. It worked well with my old clients and kept these type of issues to the bare minimum. As there's always something to tweak on an aircraft.
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I’d rather not get into it on here...but it just so happens that the fuel pressure gauge and EGT gauge went out after we decided to put the G5 and new radio in. The new G5 and radio were put in because we had MONTHS worth of issues with the older CDIs and we had enough of the BS and decided to put new stuff in.

I’m literally ready for an IFR checkride and we have been delayed a total of almost 4 months because of all these issues.

The EGT stopped working a few weeks ago.

It’s not a matter of not being able to fix these issues rather that I’m unsure we can get these things fixed before the checkride hence why I want to get these things disconnected, labeled, and in the logbook. If I have to delay the checkride again then I guess I gotta do what I gotta do.

There is no question these gauges WILL be fixed and replaced. Whether or not it’s before the checkride is to be determined.
 
Walboy said:
I reread 91.213(d). Placarding, deactivating and making the appropriate logbook entry seems like the proper way to handle the inop equipment. IF the issue comes up, then you have followed the rules as you understand them. As PIC, you have the authority to decide whether the equipment is needed for the flight. I don't think it's necessary to have an A&P make the entry and I certainly wouldn't make any mention of fixing it by the next annual. I think I would simply write "EGT has been deactivated and placarded INOP" /s/ your name, pilot certificate number.

The DPE is running a business. He's not going to run off customers or let the word get out he's completely out of control if he wants repeat business.
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Thanks this seems like the most reasonable route.
 
CC268 said:
I’m literally ready for an IFR checkride and we have been delayed a total of almost 4 months because of all these issues.
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Been there, done that, brother. Hang in there. It’s a PITA when that stuff happens.

It never ends. It is fairly likely to happen on every ride you ever do. Especially in your own airplane where you have to be involved with the maintenance activities and can’t just drop the keys at the front desk and say you need the rental fixed. :)

Hammer that thing out man. I know this frustration.

One of my CFIs relates his story that he had to cancel his ATP ride six times. Lucky number seven. :)
 
For what it’s worth, I’m not so sure you could placard the fuel pressure gauge inoperative. This was a factory installed instrument that was there at the time of certification, right? I’d suggest consulting a mechanic on this one.

Just because 91.205 doesn’t require you to have a component installed or functional doesn’t mean it isn’t needed.

The EGT gauge on the other hand, should be able to be disabled and placarded without trouble.
 
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