Making sense of the terminology: PBN, RNP, RNAV, AR, ...

I wish they would just bite the bullet and change to something simple:
  • GPS WAAS
  • ILS
  • GPS Non WASS
  • LNAV
  • VOR
  • ARC (for the one that might still exist LOL :) )
Need special equipment? Just label "NA without Special Equipment"

What might I be missing?
 
RNAV (GPS) approaches are supposed to be converting to RNP (GPS) nomenclature eventually, while RNP-AR approaches are supposed to be called just that at the same time. This is to standardize on ICAO phraseology.

WDD said:
I wish they would just bite the bullet and change to something simple:
  • GPS WAAS
  • ILS
  • GPS Non WASS
  • LNAV
  • VOR
  • ARC (for the one that might still exist LOL :) )
Need special equipment? Just label "NA without Special Equipment"

What might I be missing?
Click to expand...

There are very few GPS approaches that are LP or LPV minimums only.
 
WDD said:
I wish they would just bite the bullet and change to something simple:
  • GPS WAAS
  • ILS
  • GPS Non WASS
  • LNAV
  • VOR
  • ARC (for the one that might still exist LOL :) )
Need special equipment? Just label "NA without Special Equipment"

What might I be missing?
Click to expand...
I think you just wasted a wish. You have two left.:goofy:
 
N1120A said:
There are very few GPS approaches that are LP or LPV minimums only.
Click to expand...

Doesn’t matter. If you have WASS performance you can do X. ILS performance you can do Y minimum, and so on. Hey - it’s my world and I can make up the rules
 
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Did Jerry get his say in this? :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
WDD said:
Doesn’t matter. If you have WASS performance you can do X. ILS performance you can do Y minimum, and so on. Hey - it’s my world and I can make up the rules
Click to expand...
And on that note, it seems you can make up the spelling of WASS, too! :D
(It's WAAS.)

- Martin
 
WDD said:
Doesn’t matter. If you have WASS performance you can do X. ILS performance you can do Y minimum, and so on. Hey - it’s my world and I can make up the rules
Click to expand...

But that still means the chart needs multiple minimums.
 
N1120A said:
RNAV (GPS) approaches are supposed to be converting to RNP (GPS) nomenclature eventually, while RNP-AR approaches are supposed to be called just that at the same time. This is to standardize on ICAO phraseology.
Click to expand...
The FAA has not agreed to change the names to the ICAO Johnny come lately names. They only agreed to add the Navigation specification of RNP APCH in the PBN equipment box on charts.
 
While we’re changing everything - get rid of RNAV. There is nothing “random” about going direct from point A to point B. Weaving from VOR to VOR IMHO is more “random”.
 
WDD said:
I wish they would just bite the bullet and change to something simple:
  • GPS WAAS
  • ILS
  • GPS Non WASS
  • LNAV
  • VOR
  • ARC (for the one that might still exist LOL :) )
Need special equipment? Just label "NA without Special Equipment"

What might I be missing?
Click to expand...

the standards for defining instrument approaches isn't al that complex. When I was involved (many years ago) in a project to develop an automated procedure development tool, I was amused by the thickness of the TERPS documents being being dwarfed by all the standards/guidance for exceptions to the TERPS.

It's been a while, but I'm assuming various civilian aviation agencies are still looking at performance-based approaches rather than equipped-based. So you could need to get used to RNP-4, RNP-10, RNP-1, RNP-0.3, RNP-0.1, and I forget the ones for the approaches that would be CAT II or CAT III.
 
John and Martha King lied when they taught “R” is for random? My world makes no sense anymore ………..
 
WDD said:
John and Martha King lied when they taught “R” is for random? My world makes no sense anymore ………..
Click to expand...
You must relinquish your certificates to the FAA and start over. First will be a deprogramming to erase all memories of the Kings from your mind.

 
Now I know why your average ifr pilot does not have a good grip on the newer navigation terminology or interpretation of the charts, especially the changing abbreviations/acronyms.
I would need to watch that video 5x, to become fully conversant with all included info & nuances.
 
Martin Pauly said:
aRea NAVigation
Click to expand...

In the US it’s RNAV..22L, 31, etc.

Outside of the US, it’s called RNP 22L, 31, etc and it may only have LNAV mins. How’s that for confusing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
WDD said:
I wish they would just bite the bullet and change to something simple:
  • GPS WAAS
  • ILS
  • GPS Non WASS
  • LNAV
  • VOR
  • ARC (for the one that might still exist LOL :) )
Need special equipment? Just label "NA without Special Equipment"

What might I be missing?
Click to expand...

Here’s how I keep it straight:

GPS WAAS = LP and LPV. (Must have SBAS and WAAS equipment.) Think localizer and ILS, but just using a GPS-WAAS System instead. LPV is my preferred approach if it has 200ft and 1/2 mile mins.

GPS = LNAV and LNAV/VNAV (VNAV is advisory only)

ILS and VOR = green needles (glass users), needs a frequency. ILS is my preferred approach if LPV is unavailable. I can’t think of when I would ever do a VOR approach except in the simulator for recurrent training

ARC: can be part of Any of the above approaches. It’s just a method to get you to the FAF without using a straight in or procedure turn. Very common in Latin American countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Martin Pauly said:
And on that note, it seems you can make up the spelling of WASS, too! :D
(It's WAAS.)

- Martin
Click to expand...
English phonetically, how might one or the other best be pronounced! I’m just one dyslexic guy asking so I’ll never really know the difference…
 
...and I always thought the R in RNAV was for Reagan.
 
R.

Regan
Random
Radio
Pirate Navigation. (RRRrrrrr Maties….)
 
Fracpilot said:
Here’s how I keep it straight:

GPS WAAS = LP and LPV. (Must have SBAS and WAAS equipment.) Think localizer and ILS, but just using a GPS-WAAS System instead. LPV is my preferred approach if it has 200ft and 1/2 mile mins.

GPS = LNAV and LNAV/VNAV (VNAV is advisory only)

ILS and VOR = green needles (glass users), needs a frequency. ILS is my preferred approach if LPV is unavailable. I can’t think of when I would ever do a VOR approach except in the simulator for recurrent training

ARC: can be part of Any of the above approaches. It’s just a method to get you to the FAF without using a straight in or procedure turn. Very common in Latin American countries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

GPS = LNAV and LNAV/VNAV (VNAV is not advisory, the vertical guidance is designed for using a Baro-VNAV system found on Turbojet and Turboprop FMS systems and may be flown using WAAS based vertical guidance). LNAV+V is advisory vertical guidance and is just an aid for descending to the MDA on a non precision approach procedure with either LNAV or LP minimums.
 
aterpster said:
Actually, it stands for aera, aeRa.
Click to expand...

Agree to disagree. Who can ever know for sure about these things?


(Anyone notice the steering wheel is on the wrong side?)
 
WDD said:
Agree to disagree. Who can ever know for sure about these things?
Click to expand...

perhaps the people who've worked on developing the requirements/standards for RNAV equipment and procedures?
 
Bob Noel said:
perhaps the people who've worked on developing the requirements/standards for RNAV equipment and procedures?
Click to expand...
It was a set up line to the you tube clip. Not a serious response. Humor thing …….

I guess there are people who think Monty Python and the move Airplane are hilarious, and those that don’t get the humor of why Larry and Moe call the third guy Curly even though he is bald.
 
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WDD said:
It was a set up line to the you tube clip. Not a serious response. Humor thing …….

I guess there are people who think Monty Python and the move Airplane are hilarious, and those that don’t get the humor of why Larry and Moe call the third guy Curly even though he is bald.
Click to expand...

sarcasm, satire, and such are sometimes hard to pick up.
 
I’m probably on the side of being too sarcastic …. I know I still love to embarrass my children - now adults - with Dad Jokes. :).
 
WDD said:
I’m probably on the side of being too sarcastic …. I know I still love to embarrass my children - now adults - with Dad Jokes. :).
Click to expand...

hey... isn't that a required dad activity?
 
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Pirate Navigation - ARrrr Nav. ?

Thought that deserved at least a facepalm emoji from someone.
 
WDD said:
No comments on

Pirate Navigation - ARrrr Nav. ?

Thought that deserved at least a facepalm emoji from someone.
Click to expand...

when is talk-like-a-pirate day?

Too bad you didn't wait for that...
 
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