Making Cessna 150L Legal to Spin

Greenhead

Greenhead

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
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I would like to make my '72 C150L legal for spin training. I have "Googled" and tried to find where to purchase the Spin Kit but seem to come up short. Also tried the search on forum but also came up short.

What started this request was that I noticed during recent training that I was timid when entering my stalls. Not scared so to speak but nervous about the unknowns. During one particular stall I allowed left wing to sharply dip and went to correct with ailerons. I realized my mistake quickly and corrected with rudder and released right aileron before my instructor was able to take over. This experience did open my eyes on how easily the mistake could be made. I don't like the idea of being told on how to get out of a situation if I can be safely shown.

Instructor and I discussed what just happened and he immediately had me go back to altitude and stall again. This time having me keep aircraft stalled but letting me work the rudder not allowing wings to dip. (Falling leaf maneuver I think he called it?) Learned a lot and became more comfortable just by doing this. But still, much rather be shown how to recover from spins by doing spins and removing most of the unknowns involved. Instructor has no problem showing/training if I can make it legal.

Can anyone point me in the right direction where to purchase a kit? It would be greatly appreciated. And pictures of kit installed would be even better.
 
Greenhead said:
Can anyone point me in the right direction where to purchase a kit? It would be greatly appreciated. And pictures of kit installed would be even better.
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call your local Cessna dealer.
 
Why bother? Find an FBO with a decathlon or a Citabria, etc. And a good instructor and do it. Much simpler.
 
Brad Z said:
Wait, you're not supposed to spin a 150?
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There's an AD that requires the OEM rudder stop components to be replaced with larger rudder stops. If the stops aren't replaced, 150s and 152s need to be placarded that spins are prohibited. There were a couple of instances where the rudder jammed full deflection during a spin entry/recovery due to poor maintenance and an isolated manufacturing mistake so they came out with a "fix."
 
Brad Z said:
Wait, you're not supposed to spin a 150?
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there is an ad that says you can't with out the kit on the rudder stops.

They have in the past, jammed full throw while trying to recover.
 
You could do what I do. Apply the placard with chewing gum, just reach up and remove the placard before the spin, carefully replace it after recovery.:wink2:
 
Wow. I know I've been out of instructing for a few years so this is new to me.

I've spun 150's & 172's too many times to count without any issues.

That said, I once spun a 172 with an Avcon 180 conversion & it took quite a few rotations before the spinning stopped & we could recover from the steep nose low attitude. After we landed we checked the Avcon supplemental manual & it advised not to spin the aircraft.

I guess we should have read that first! :mad2: :rofl:
 
saddletramp said:
Wow. I know I've been out of instructing for a few years so this is new to me.

I've spun 150's & 172's too many times to count without any issues.

That said, I once spun a 172 with an Avcon 180 conversion & it took quite a few rotations before the spinning stopped & we could recover from the steep nose low attitude. After we landed we checked the Avcon supplemental manual & it advised not to spin the aircraft.

I guess we should have read that first! :mad2: :rofl:
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So not all 150 ADs were properly complied with? The AD for the rudder stop mod is more than just a few years old.
 
saddletramp said:
Wow. I know I've been out of instructing for a few years so this is new to me.

I've spun 150's & 172's too many times to count without any issues.

That said, I once spun a 172 with an Avcon 180 conversion & it took quite a few rotations before the spinning stopped & we could recover from the steep nose low attitude. After we landed we checked the Avcon supplemental manual & it advised not to spin the aircraft.

I guess we should have read that first! :mad2: :rofl:
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I'd be really surprised if the STC for the Avcon conversion didn't require a placard prohibiting spins. Who did the annuals since the conversion?
 
BillTIZ said:
So not all 150 ADs were properly complied with? The AD for the rudder stop mod is more than just a few years old.
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Every 150/152 should either be placarded or properly modified.
 
Witmo said:
I'd be really surprised if the STC for the Avcon conversion didn't require a placard prohibiting spins. Who did the annuals since the conversion?
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The 150 spin issue does not apply to the 172 of any version.
 
Tom-D said:
The 150 spin issue does not apply to the 172 of any version.
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The rudder stop issue isn't applicable to 172s, but it's not unusual for engine STC developers to forego spin testing and just prohibit them rather than spend the money.
 
Witmo said:
I'd be really surprised if the STC for the Avcon conversion didn't require a placard prohibiting spins. Who did the annuals since the conversion?
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It doesn't take much to alter an airplane's spin characteristics.

A Cessna test pilot once spun an STC'd 150-hp C-150, with battery in the tailcone. He immediately noticed a flatter spin attitude and sluggish recovery.

When Cessna was putting the leading-edge cuffs on the wings of most piston single-engine models in the early 1970s, they tested it on the C-150 as well. On the first spin test, a two-turn spin took 13 turns to recover. That was the end of that. Only the C-150/152 and C-207 (too low-volume for the test protocol investment) were never produced with the wing cuffs.
 
saddletramp said:
That said, I once spun a 172 with an Avcon 180 conversion & it took quite a few rotations before the spinning stopped & we could recover from the steep nose low attitude. After we landed we checked the Avcon supplemental manual & it advised not to spin the aircraft.
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Going from memory here but I think a heavier engine and more forward CG makes it easier to recover from a spin.
 
Witmo said:
The rudder stop issue isn't applicable to 172s, but it's not unusual for engine STC developers to forego spin testing and just prohibit them rather than spend the money.
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Is this thread about the 150 ADs or about STC developers?

We have have several 150 accidents because of rudders getting stuck at full throw during stall recovery ---- thus the AD.
 
Tom-D said:
Is this thread about the 150 ADs or about STC developers?

We have have several 150 accidents because of rudders getting stuck at full throw during stall recovery ---- thus the AD.
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A thread is about whatever people want it to be about. Since when did they make you a thread policeman?

Of the two accidents I am aware of, the first airplane was an accident waiting to happen because it was in such bad condition it shouldn't have been flying at all (flight controls were grossly misrigged or had excessive play), and the second had the rudder stop installed backwards, presumably from the factory. To my knowledge, there have been no instances of rudders jamming from properly maintained aircraft with properly installed original factory rudder stops.

Please tell us of any other rudder incidents you are aware of.
 
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Witmo said:
A thread is about whatever people want it to be about. Since when did they make you a thread policeman?.
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How can any one give the correct answer when you don't stay on topic?

I don't need to quote accident sites, Cessna and the FAA make those decisions. You got an AD? comply with it.

Yes it is that simple.
 
Tom-D said:
How can any one give the correct answer when you don't stay on topic?

I don't need to quote accident sites, Cessna and the FAA make those decisions. You got an AD? comply with it.

Yes it is that simple.
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Your post #6 did nothing more than restate what I said earlier in post #5. If, by staying on topic, all you can do is repeat what someone else has already written, what good are you? I responded to someone who remarked how difficult it was to recover from a spin in a modified Cessna. If you don't have anything to contribute to that discussion, perhaps you should consider looking for a thread where you can contribute your expertise instead of crying about thread creap.
 
Does the Madras tip STC require a no spins placard?
 

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Witmo said:
Your post #6 did nothing more than restate what I said earlier in post #5. If, by staying on topic, all you can do is repeat what someone else has already written, what good are you? I responded to someone who remarked how difficult it was to recover from a spin in a modified Cessna. If you don't have anything to contribute to that discussion, perhaps you should consider looking for a thread where you can contribute your expertise instead of crying about thread creap.
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This is the attitude that makes this web site almost useless to get the correct answer to any question.
 
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