Maintain runway heading - question

Matthew

Matthew

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Matthew
I'm a VFR guy - during training I was taught, on a x-wind takeoff, to go ahead and let the plane crab, then pick a point on the horizon on the extended rwy centerline and use that as a reference. I may be travelling in the direction of the runway, but my heading is definitely off.

I acted as a safety pilot with a buddy of mine, in similar conditions. He went under the hood shortly after takeoff and kept the runway heading pegged on the DG, which meant we drifted quite a bit.

For noise abatement, our posted local procedures say to maintain rwy heading until 1500AGL.

It's been a long time since I've flown out of a Class C airport where I had to get departure directions, but I think I was told to maintain rwy heading until a certain altitude.

I've heard that for IFR clearances the drift is taken into consideration and the pilot is expected to fly the heading and let the IFR system take care of the xwind drift.

Just what is the definition of 'runway heading' and does it mean different things under different conditions?
 
Matthew said:
I'm a VFR guy - during training I was taught, on a x-wind takeoff, to go ahead and let the plane crab, then pick a point on the horizon on the extended rwy centerline and use that as a reference. I may be travelling in the direction of the runway, but my heading is definitely off.

I acted as a safety pilot with a buddy of mine, in similar conditions. He went under the hood shortly after takeoff and kept the runway heading pegged on the DG, which meant we drifted quite a bit.

For noise abatement, our posted local procedures say to maintain rwy heading until 1500AGL.

It's been a long time since I've flown out of a Class C airport where I had to get departure directions, but I think I was told to maintain rwy heading until a certain altitude.

I've heard that for IFR clearances the drift is taken into consideration and the pilot is expected to fly the heading and let the IFR system take care of the xwind drift.

Just what is the definition of 'runway heading' and does it mean different things under different conditions?
Click to expand...

A "heading" is not a ground track or course -- but the way the airplane should be pointed -- e.g. "headed."

It may help to think of it this way: Headings are airplane referenced, while course or track is earth referenced.
 
Matthew: heading is exactly what it sounds like. When being vectored, the controller refers to headings and should adjust your heading if you are going where he doesn't want you to. I've had them ask my heading so they could compute winds to correct for them.
Of course, in IFR conditions, everyone can't maintain a track (those with a GPS can, but it's not required). Once you get on the DP or airway, you can follow that routing.
In VFR conditions, you are used to adjusting for ground track; so, it can be a bit confusing when being vectored. IFR, you probably wouldn't notice.

Best,

Dave
 
It sounds like I didn't ask very well..

When I take off of R18, and have a left 10kt x-wind, and am VFR at a class-D or less airport, do I use the 'runway heading' - point the nose to the runway heading of 180 (let's assume the the runway really IS 180) and follow about a 190 - 200 course, or point the nose to 170 or so in order to follow a 180 course?

I can understand that when under the directions from a controller and they say 'maintain runway heading', they mean just that. But what about departing a class D or less field, under VFR conditions? I may be making a big deal out of nothing, but I'm curious about it. It's probably in the FAR/AIM but I haven't had time to look it up yet.
 
From the P/CG:
RUNWAY HEADING- The magnetic direction that corresponds with the runway centerline extended, not the painted runway number. When cleared to "fly or maintain runway heading," pilots are expected to fly or maintain the heading that corresponds with the extended centerline of the departure runway. Drift correction shall not be applied; e.g., Runway 4, actual magnetic heading of the runway centerline 044, fly 044.
Click to expand...
If Tower or your clearance says "fly runway heading" (either IFR, or under VFR when instructed to do so, like in B/C space), you do what it says above. On a normal unrestricted VFR departure, unless otherwise instructed, Tower will expect you to fly the centerline at least to TPA (or TPA-300 if staying in the pattern). So, if you're going out VFR to practice instruments, and are intending to "fly runway heading" rather than the centerline, make sure Tower knows before takeoff what you're doing.
 
Matthew said:
It sounds like I didn't ask very well..

When I take off of R18, and have a left 10kt x-wind, and am VFR at a class-D or less airport, do I use the 'runway heading' - point the nose to the runway heading of 180 (let's assume the the runway really IS 180) and follow about a 190 - 200 course, or point the nose to 170 or so in order to follow a 180 course?

I can understand that when under the directions from a controller and they say 'maintain runway heading', they mean just that. But what about departing a class D or less field, under VFR conditions? I may be making a big deal out of nothing, but I'm curious about it. It's probably in the FAR/AIM but I haven't had time to look it up yet.
Click to expand...
If I am flying a visual pattern in VMC I am going to crab to maintain the appropriate ground-track. If I am instructed by a controller (IMC or VMC) to maintain runway heading then I will fly the runway heading regardless of where it takes me.
 
Don't complicate it too much. If tower says to maintain runway heading, do exactly that. If runway heading is 180, maintain 180.

Think of this in a scenario. You take off and track 180 by crabbing into the wind. You are on a paralleling runway and a 152 takes off beside you with a new student or someone that just isn't paying attention and flies "runway heading," where is he going to go in a crosswind? Right into your flight path. So to keep things simple for everybody, tower says to fly the same heading you were on during your departure roll, aka 180. This way, everyone drifts and there is no guessing.

This is just one scenario, obviously others are out there and have been mentioned.
 
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Ron Levy said:
On a normal unrestricted VFR departure, unless otherwise instructed, Tower will expect you to fly the centerline at least to TPA (or TPA-300 if staying in the pattern).
Click to expand...

That's what I figured. It's been years since I've heard a controller tell me anything other than "Clear for takeoff, SW departure approved" or something similar. But we do have a sign at the end of each rwy reminding us of noise abatement procedures that say to maintain rwy 'heading' until 500AGL. I don't think anybody follows the sign, except for the 500AGL limit.
 
Tristar said:
Don't complicate it too much. If tower says to maintain runway heading, do exactly that. If runway heading is 180, maintain 180.

Think of this in a scenario. You take off and track 180 by crabbing into the wind. You are on a paralleling runway and a 152 takes off beside you with a new student or someone that just isn't paying attention and flies "runway heading," where is he going to go in a crosswind? Right into your flight path. So to keep things simple for everybody, tower says to fly the same heading you were on during your departure roll, aka 180. This way, everyone drifts and there is no guessing.

This is just one scenario, obviously others are out there and have been mentioned.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I understand the reasons for the instructions. But, absent a specific instruction, I was taught to follow the ground-track by crabbing into the wind. I figured I was doing things right, but just wanted to ask.
 
And you were taught correctly for ground reference maneuvers. A traffic pattern is a ground reference maneuver. That's why students are taught rectangular courses first. So yes, track during your crosswind, downwind, base, and final legs.

Remember too that it's okay to ask tower questions if you are unsure but if your CFI is there, ask him/her first. :)
 
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Matthew said:
Just what is the definition of 'runway heading' and does it mean different things under different conditions?
Click to expand...

From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

RUNWAY HEADING- The magnetic direction that corresponds with the runway centerline extended, not the painted runway number. When cleared to "fly or maintain runway heading," pilots are expected to fly or maintain the heading that corresponds with the extended centerline of the departure runway. Drift correction shall not be applied; e.g., Runway 4, actual magnetic heading of the runway centerline 044, fly 044.
 
Matthew said:
It sounds like I didn't ask very well..

When I take off of R18, and have a left 10kt x-wind, and am VFR at a class-D or less airport, do I use the 'runway heading' - point the nose to the runway heading of 180 (let's assume the the runway really IS 180) and follow about a 190 - 200 course, or point the nose to 170 or so in order to follow a 180 course?

I can understand that when under the directions from a controller and they say 'maintain runway heading', they mean just that. But what about departing a class D or less field, under VFR conditions? I may be making a big deal out of nothing, but I'm curious about it. It's probably in the FAR/AIM but I haven't had time to look it up yet.
Click to expand...

When assigned runway heading you are to fly the magnetic azimuth of the runway; e. g., runway 18, actual magnetic azimuth of the runway is 184, fly heading 184 and allow the airplane to drift. It doesn't matter if the airspace is Class D or Class C, etc., it doesn't matter if you're IFR or VFR.
 
Matthew said:
That's what I figured. It's been years since I've heard a controller tell me anything other than "Clear for takeoff, SW departure approved" or something similar. But we do have a sign at the end of each rwy reminding us of noise abatement procedures that say to maintain rwy 'heading' until 500AGL. I don't think anybody follows the sign, except for the 500AGL limit.
Click to expand...
In that context, it's not an ATC instruction and it was probably written by someone who hasn't a clue about the difference. Given that noise abatement procedures are there to "protect" people on the ground, not to avoid lossof separation in the air, whoeven wrote it most likely meant ground track.
 
Just looked at the A/FD:

In the remarks section: Upon takeoff for Rwys 18 and 36 maintain rwy heading until passing 1,600' MSL.

1600MSL is 500AGL for us - and the A/FD does say "maintain rwy heading".

So, now what? I've been following the rwy TRACK, like every other VFR pilot I know of at that airport (unless told otherwise by the controller).
 
Following the crowd is not always the answer. It says right in the A/FD, now you know.

This is actually a common practice. Fly runway heading, then turn on your departure leg at 500ft AGL. This is for obvious reasons such as obstacle and aircraft avoidance. Safety is the key though, if you know the crosswind will push you into another aircraft or obstacle, compensate for that. If the wind is strong enough to push you into an obstacle that you should have easily cleared, you have bigger issues. If this is a matter of not wanting to change your procedures, well that's part of learning. It wont end here and it shouldn't.
 
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Matthew said:
Just looked at the A/FD:

In the remarks section: Upon takeoff for Rwys 18 and 36 maintain rwy heading until passing 1,600' MSL.

1600MSL is 500AGL for us - and the A/FD does say "maintain rwy heading".

So, now what? I've been following the rwy TRACK, like every other VFR pilot I know of at that airport (unless told otherwise by the controller).
Click to expand...

What airport?
 
They also say "Pattern altitude: LOW PERFORMANCE ACFT 1000 FT AGL; HIGH PERFORMANCE ACFT 1500 FT AGL.
" So in my 182 or 210, both of which require the high-performance endorsement, am I expected to do a pattern at 1500'AGL?
 
roncachamp said:
When the tower is closed or tower does not assign a heading at takeoff I'd correct for drift and track the runway centerline.
Click to expand...


I agree with Steven on this one.....:yikes:

Terrain, obstacles and other hazards are usually not aligned with runway centerline.. A good crosswind " could " blow you into trouble..

IMHO.

Ben.
 
roncachamp said:
When the tower is closed or tower does not assign a heading at takeoff I'd correct for drift and track the runway centerline.
Click to expand...

That's the way the local instructors teach it. The notice is for noise abatement and not obstacle clearance.
 
gprellwitz said:
They also say "Pattern altitude: LOW PERFORMANCE ACFT 1000 FT AGL; HIGH PERFORMANCE ACFT 1500 FT AGL.
" So in my 182 or 210, both of which require the high-performance endorsement, am I expected to do a pattern at 1500'AGL?
Click to expand...
Do what you want - just make sure to file a flight plan.
 
gprellwitz said:
They also say "Pattern altitude: LOW PERFORMANCE ACFT 1000 FT AGL; HIGH PERFORMANCE ACFT 1500 FT AGL.
" So in my 182 or 210, both of which require the high-performance endorsement, am I expected to do a pattern at 1500'AGL?
Click to expand...
Grant, I am quite sure you understand what they mean, and it's not "airplanes with an engine of more than 200HP." :rolleyes: Think about what Potter Stewart said about knowing when something is pornographic.:D
 
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