Mac cursor

[gibbons]

OK Mac fans, I need help with my wife's computer. It's a G5 running Mac OS X, Version 10.4.6. The software is all up to date (according to the update software program).

When the cursor is placed over a data entry field, like over search field on Google's site, it changes to the "I-Beam" data entry cursor. But when it's moved away from the field, over a link or whatever, it doesn't change back to an arrow or finger or anything. It stays as a data entry cursor.

It's done this since the day it came out of the box, through the disk crash, and after the rebuild. She's already mad that I bought her a Mac instead of a PC, but what's done is done. Any help on getting this fixed would be appreciated to the point of me not making fun of Mac users for a whole week. Promise.

Chip

 

[mikea]

OK Mac fans, I need help with my wife's computer. It's a G5 running Mac OS X, Version 10.4.6. The software is all up to date (according to the update software program).

When the cursor is placed over a data entry field, like over search field on Google's site, it changes to the "I-Beam" data entry cursor. But when it's moved away from the field, over a link or whatever, it doesn't change back to an arrow or finger or anything. It stays as a data entry cursor.

It's done this since the day it came out of the box, through the disk crash, and after the rebuild. She's already mad that I bought her a Mac instead of a PC, but what's done is done. Any help on getting this fixed would be appreciated to the point of me not making fun of Mac users for a whole week. Promise.

Chip

Dan is Mac certified, but I'll jump in. What mouse and keyboard are you using? I would look to see if you have any USB or mouse enhancers. Look in System Preferences, User, her account, login items.

I'm only getting some weirdness because I have the program in the Windows enviorment which makes each alternate push of the Control get you a right click of the mouse.

I can get trapped when I have a Parallels window in the Mac, running Windows XP, running Remote Admin over a VPN which is controlling my work PC. You should see how much fun I have trying send Ctrl-Alt-Del to the last PC in the chain, much less telling which window to scroll, and maximize. Excel has a inherit bug with recognizing screen resolution so it puts controls outside of the visible screen.

 

[Brian Austin]

I'm only getting some weirdness because I have the program int he Windows enviorment which makes each alternate push of the Control get you a right click of the mosue.

I can get trapped when I have a Parallels window in the Mac, running Windows XP, running Remote Admin over a VPN which is controlling my work PC. You should see how much fun I have trying send Ctrl-Alt-Del to the last PC in the chain, much less telling which window to scroll, and maximize. Excel has a inherit bug with recognizing screen resolution so it puts controls outside of the visible screen.

Amazing. An issue in a Mac environment and you still find a way to blame Windows...

 

[gibbons]

Amazing. An issue in a Mac environment and you still find a way to blame Windows...

Hehehe. I KNEW he could do it!

Mike, I'll get back to you on your questions.....

Chip

 

[Brian Austin]

I didn't blame Windows. I said running a PC within a PC within a Mac window can get confusing. I know what's going on and I still get buried.

It a concept called a ongoing conversation. Sometimes the topic drifts.

A little sensitive are we?

Not at all. I'm just not surprised that you managed to take a Mac-only situation and twist it into a "Windows sux" fest....as usual.

For me, it's right up there with left vs right, Dems vs Pubs. The ones who are convinced are already there and the ones who aren't won't be. Waste of typing.

 

[gibbons]

Dan is Mac certified, but I'll jump in. What mouse and keyboard are you using? I would look to see if you have any USB or mouse enhancers. Look in System Preferences, User, her account, login items.

OK, OK.... back to the topic at hand.

She's running the Mac wireless keyboard and a USB MS mouse. The only item listed in "login items" is iTunesHelper. No mouse enhancers.

I unplugged the USB mouse and fired up the wireless Apple mouse that came with the computer. I did not re-boot the computer. The Apple mouse did the same thing.

Thanks for whatever tips you can offer.

Chip

 

[Steve]

In an attempt to find online references for this bug it is apparently generic. No fixes were located, however, from http://thalo.net/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/88460365/m/9901086721/p/2

If Apple truly wanted what's best for us, OS X wouldn't be such a mess. Crap like the cursor not changing back to an arrow from an I-beam would never happen.

A downloadable app for customize cursors was located at
http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/mightymouse/ and http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnidazzle/ which may give you some additional control over cursor behavior in a Mac.

You might also try to determine if their is a graphics adapter (video card) driver upgrade available which may address this issue.

But I'm just lowly xp user, so what do I know.

 

[mikea]

Like the Mac certified support of old, Dan says to reinstall OS X.

Me talking: You can do an "archive and install" with your OS X DVD and not lose anything.

Does this happen with any browser?

You do know that you get a year of Applecare support with any new Mac. Try calling if you're covered.

 

[Brian Austin]

To fix a silly cursor issue requires a reinstallation of the OS? And this is "advanced"?

Wait. This sounds vaguely familiar...OH. That's what we used to tell the Microsoft users once upon a time.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

OK Mac fans, I need help with my wife's computer.

Chip,

Wish I could help more than this... I've never seen that particular issue in nearly 20 years as a Mac user/supporter/geek.

Sorry Dan, OS reinstall really seems like overkill, doesn't it? I don't buy that solution at all. Especially since the machine has always done that and "through a disk crash" I'm guessing it's already been done at least once.

Chip, what happens when you move the cursor (as in the Google example) over one of the links on the page... Does it change to the little hand, or stay as an I-beam? Does anything besides a reboot change the cursor back to what it should be? Does this happen in all apps or only Safari? Does it always happen, or is it restricted to a certain app/field type/time of day/anything repeatable?

 

[gibbons]

Chip, what happens when you move the cursor (as in the Google example) over one of the links on the page... Does it change to the little hand, or stay as an I-beam? Does anything besides a reboot change the cursor back to what it should be? Does this happen in all apps or only Safari? Does it always happen, or is it restricted to a certain app/field type/time of day/anything repeatable?

OK, I spent some more time on her computer this morning and I think I can answer some of your questions.

The problem doesn't seem to be application specific. I started iTunes and the same thing happened when I moved the cursor over the search text entry field. The I-Beam doesn't change back when the cursor is moved off the field or, for that matter, off of the application.

It will sometimes change back to a pointing finger when I pass it over a link or even (rarely) an arrow when it is passed over a menu item at the top of the screen. I can't find any way to make the action repeat. For example, while typing this post I moved the cursor out of the text entry box down to the "Post Icons" radio box. It changed from an i-beam to an arrow two times, but didn't change three times. When I moved it down to "Submit Reply" it didn't change, but when I moved it from there to "Preview Post" it did. Just now it changed to a pointing finger and stayed that way even after I moved it off the link. It didn't change until I moved it over a text entry box, then it changed to the i-beam.

At this point I suspect there is a "random cursor type generator" somewhere in the operating system. It really does seem to be a random event. Is there any way in OS X I can record screen images so you can see what I'm talking about?

OK. Now I'm starting to feel strange, like I need to say bad things about Bill Gates. I'm feeling weaker. I can feel my IQ dropping... must.... get... back.... to..... Windows.........



Thanks for any help you can provide,

Chip

 

[corjulo]

OK Mac fans, I need help with my wife's computer. It's a G5 running Mac OS X, Version 10.4.6. The software is all up to date (according to the update software program).

When the cursor is placed over a data entry field, like over search field on Google's site, it changes to the "I-Beam" data entry cursor. But when it's moved away from the field, over a link or whatever, it doesn't change back to an arrow or finger or anything. It stays as a data entry cursor.

It's done this since the day it came out of the box, through the disk crash, and after the rebuild. She's already mad that I bought her a Mac instead of a PC, but what's done is done. Any help on getting this fixed would be appreciated to the point of me not making fun of Mac users for a whole week. Promise.

Chip

This is a common issue with Firefox and to a lesser extent Safari. I have actually seen it on the PC version a firefox also. I assume this is only happening in a browser and not, say, MS word?


Have you booted from the DVD and reloaded the OS. For that matter have you patched the OS lately? If its not the OS then I suspect the issue is in the graphics card. The Finder, Apple user interface, actually does not run on the processor, it runs on the graphics card. As a Mac tech, assuming you have reloaded the OS, I would treat this has bad hardware and let Apple handle it. I'd start with the mouse, then the graphics card. If this is an iMac that means a new logic board...charming.. BUT YOU NEED TO START WITH AN OS RELOAD

I just read a Gardner report that said the failure rate amount PC has more then doubled this year. ALL PC's, including Mac's. In laptops its approaching 28 percent!!!

 

[corjulo]

OK, OK.... back to the topic at hand.

She's running the Mac wireless keyboard and a USB MS mouse. The only item listed in "login items" is iTunesHelper. No mouse enhancers.

I unplugged the USB mouse and fired up the wireless Apple mouse that came with the computer. I did not re-boot the computer. The Apple mouse did the same thing.

Thanks for whatever tips you can offer.

Chip

Can you try another Keyboard?

 

[jesse]

I'm sorry. But that is simply not the case.

Your mouse icon changing is not a result of a bad graphics card. It is a software issue.

 

[corjulo]

To fix a silly cursor issue requires a reinstallation of the OS? And this is "advanced"?

Wait. This sounds vaguely familiar...OH. That's what we used to tell the Microsoft users once upon a time.

You telling me the same would not be true of any OS. That little mouse curser, and the underlying API's that control it is an amazingly complex piece of coding. I would do the same with Windows. I HAVE DONE THE SAME.

You could spend hours trying to figure out just what peice of the system needs to be replaced or you can simply re-image the damn thing and be done.

What piece of the Window windowing system would you replace to fix a curser and I will tell you why that won't work.

And reloading the OS on a Mac is not a big deal. No registrations codes to deal with, No bios to configure. Just boot from the DVD and hit reinstall. SIMPLE

 

[corjulo]

I'm sorry. But that is simply not the case.

Your mouse icon changing is not a result of a bad graphics card. It is a software issue.

Not true young Jedi. The Mac Graphic interface on newer Macs run entirely on the graphics card. Apple calls it Quartz Extreme. A flakey graphic card absolutely can effect the curser. I went bonkers trying to fix an issue with Final Cut HD that we finally resolved with a new card

That said the first place to start is the OS and software. NO doubt there.

 

[corjulo]

simple test

First, Boot with the shift key down into safe mode, it will take a long time to boot, thats OK. Its recreated a great deal of cache and swop files

See it it happens then. If it does then boot from the install DVD and see if it still happens

If it works booted from the DVD then its software. If it still does not change then its hardware.

Now, windows user, do the same thing. Oh wait, you guy can't really boot from the DVD, can you? Actually I think you can now, we have been able to for 10 years

 

[Greebo]

We can't run Windows from the DVD, just the installer, but we can boot from CD/DVD yes.

I was about to comment on impressed I was that you've been able to boot from DVDs for longer than they've exited...then I realised that they HAVE existed for that long, and I'm just forgetting what decade it was in which they came out... *sigh*

 

[mikea]

simple test...

Now, windows user, do the same thing. Oh wait, you guy can't really boot from the DVD, can you? Actually I think you can now, we have been able to for 10 years

Of course a Windows user can boot from the CD it's just that every option you see is trying to trap you into wiping everything out. I just came across this "simple" procedure in 14 easy screen shots on how to avoid that. I think you need to have the hands of a safecracker and a lot patience and confidence that what it says it's doing is not what's it's really doing... http://www.personaltechpipeline.com/189500364

 

[Ken Ibold]

Chip, the best solution is a big hammer and http://www.dell.com.

 

[mikea]

Chip, the best solution is a big hammer and http://www.dell.com.

Or that and the big hammer. Ask Bruce how many he's hammered. I got a reprieve for the last one.

 

[gibbons]

Chip, the best solution is a big hammer and http://www.dell.com.

Ken, you've got THAT right!

Chip

 

[corjulo]

Also, Try creating a new account and login that way. This can further isolate the problem

 

[jesse]

Not true young Jedi. The Mac Graphic interface on newer Macs run entirely on the graphics card. Apple calls it Quartz Extreme. A flakey graphic card absolutely can effect the curser. I went bonkers trying to fix an issue with Final Cut HD that we finally resolved with a new card

That said the first place to start is the OS and software. NO doubt there.

An incorrect icon being displayed screams "SOFTWARE PROBLEM" not hardware problem. Unless the mouse icon is built into the firmware on the graphics card which I highly..highly doubt. It's just not the case.


That said. Prove me wrong.

 

[Greebo]

An incorrect icon being displayed screams "SOFTWARE PROBLEM" not hardware problem. Unless the mouse icon is built into the firmware on the graphics card which I highly..highly doubt. It's just not the case.

That said. Prove me wrong.

While I agree that usually a mouse cursor issue would suggest software issues, you really should stop using such strong absolutes in computer terms...because so far your track record using those absolutes isn't looking too hot...

As I said, software issues are suggested, but graphics issues even related to the mouse cursor can be tied in the hardware as well. A late model graphics card is designed to take as much of the rendering work away from the CPU as possible, so to do that one of the things the cards do is cache images, and while the O/S is going to tell the card where to draw the cursor, its more efficient for the CPU to tell the card, "Load these bitmaps in this order as your cursor cache" and then, when the cursor starts changing, to tell the card, "Change to cursor X" and later "Change to default cursor", and when the mouse moves, "set cursorpos to x,y".

So if the card has a problem somewhere in its wiring with "Change to default cursor", it could indeed cause the situation described.

 

[jesse]

because so far your track record using those absolutes isn't looking too hot...

Really?

So if the card has a problem somewhere in its wiring with "Change to default cursor", it could indeed cause the situation described.

Based on my experience in the development of Unix based hardware accelerated GUI's I am saying that it is not the graphics card. It just does not make sense. I would guess they are interfacing with the graphics card via OpenGL. If the card was wired wrong you would have a very unstable system and many..many graphical flaws.

I said my opinion. Just as someone else said their opinion. I also said "Prove me wrong" meaning if I am wrong show me proof.

Don't put too much time into reading what I write. I'm simply writing what my brain is thinking. I don't have the time to sit here and try to proof read everything I do to make sure that I do not offend someone.

 

[Greebo]

Based on my experience in the development of Unix based hardware accelerated GUI's I am saying that it is not the graphics card. It just does not make sense. I would guess they are interfacing with the graphics card via OpenGL. If the card was wired wrong you would have a very unstable system and many..many graphical flaws.

True, but a card doesn't have to be wired wrong to have problems. Components go bad, memory gets flakey, and so forth. I once had a RAM problem that caused the computer to freak out during the operating install - a different stage each time but always somewhere in the middle. Turns out part of the RAM was bad and when it got used, boom.

I said my opinion. Just as someone else said their opinion. I also said "Prove me wrong" meaning if I am wrong show me proof.

Proof that it can't be the hardware only requires a logical, plausible scenario where it could happen. I outlined one already that can happen in the windows framework where during the loading process images are loaded into video memory in the same order into the same segments every time.

Dan already pointed out that the newer Macs do the entire GUI thru the card and cited his own experience with a similar problem, which you apparently didn't take the time to read and comprehend and dismissed w/o consideration.

Don't put too much time into reading what I write. I'm simply writing what my brain is thinking. I don't have the time to sit here and try to proof read everything I do to make sure that I do not offend someone.

I'm not offended, I just think that you need to think more about what you're saying and pay a bit more attention to people who've got as much or more experience.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Ken, you've got THAT right!

Chip,

Relax... It could be viruses and spyware crippling things instead of a cosmetic issue!

Check this out:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=2204966&#2204966

It appears that installing OnyX helped someone out... Give that a shot. My brother also suggests downloading and running the OS X 10.4.7 combo updater (make sure it's the COMBO updater) as that'll hit a lot of files. It's kind of a "shoot-wildly-with-a-machine-gun" tactic, but it should be a bit quicker than reinstalling entirely... Maybe.

Let us know if either of these works! Or doesn't...

Good luck,

 

[jesse]

Dan already pointed out that the newer Macs do the entire GUI thru the card and cited his own experience with a similar problem, which you apparently didn't take the time to read and comprehend and dismissed w/o consideration.

Saying that it's a bad video card is what I like to call "shooting in the dark". When you run out of a good reason as to why something isn't working you start to come up with absurd things in desperation. It's pretty common. Don't jump to conclusions and waste money on hardware. Eliminate the software.

I'm *very* familiar with hardware accelerated graphical user interfaces, along with being actively involved in the development of such. I'm basing what I am saying on that. How familiar are you guys with such? Are you involved in the development of this new 'hardware accelerated gui' concept?

I've seen what you are describing with bad RAM. But, there is just no way that the video card would consistantly output the wrong texture for a cursor when you move it over a text field. It would either be ALL or NOTHING when it came to hardware acceleration. If it was bad memory on the card you'd just be hosed. It wouldn't be stable. Nothing accerelated would work for crap. The problem would be interimitent. I've seen bad video cards. I've seen bad memory on video cards. I've seen video cards in development that are wired wrong. This problem is not a bad video card.

I said what I thought. Everyone else said what they thought. I'm basing what I'm saying on expereience and understanding of HOW you build a hardware accelerated GUI.

At this point I'm shooting a dead duck. Let me know how you end up fixing it, I bet it doesn't involve a new video card. BTW. Kent is going in the right direction with this..take a look at what he posted.

 

[Greebo]

Jesse, I have already said that software is suggested. What I'm also doing, and suggesting YOU do, is keep your mind open to other possibilities and not dismiss them out of hand. I'm still inclined to lean towards software - probably drivers or something in the firmware, but I'm not convinced by your argument that hardware is completely eliminated either. First of all, the problem is not fully consistent. Oh, its the same problem repeatedly, but it doesn't happen all the time, however it HAS happend before AND after a crash and rebuild. That raises suspicions that software might not be the culprit.

I want you to go back and read what I've been saying - I have not and am not saying its definitively bad hardware, and I have and still agree that soft or firmware is suggested. I am simply saying that YOU should not be jumping to conclusions so rapidly, or accusing others of the same.

One situation you haven't considered to support the possibility of hardware related failure: If, as Mac Certified Dan points out, the GUI functionality is entirely a function of the video card, then that video card is going to have firmware. If there is a subtle, small flaw in the flash memory for the firmware, and the cursor management logic resides in that portion of memory, and if that logic has a function to revert the cursor to its previous or default image, that function could very well behave erratically and fail to function sometimes, which WOULD explain the cursor changing on mouseover but not reverting on mouseleave.

Is it Probable? No. But that hasn't been my point, has it? My point has been that it is one possibility. My point has been that one should keep their minds open to all possible causes of a problem. I still think software is most likely and an occam's razor process of elimination is the best way to find the problem, but one should never DISMISS obscure and unlikely causes out of hand simply because they aren't the most likely - doing so sets you up to fail at finding the solution if the first suspect isn't the key.

 

[jesse]

Jesse, I have already said that software is suggested. What I'm also doing, and suggesting YOU do, is keep your mind open to other possibilities and not dismiss them out of hand. I'm still inclined to lean towards software - probably drivers or something in the firmware, but I'm not convinced by your argument that hardware is completely eliminated either. First of all, the problem is not fully consistent. Oh, its the same problem repeatedly, but it doesn't happen all the time, however it HAS happend before AND after a crash and rebuild. That raises suspicions that software might not be the culprit.

I want you to go back and read what I've been saying - I have not and am not saying its definitively bad hardware, and I have and still agree that soft or firmware is suggested. I am simply saying that YOU should not be jumping to conclusions so rapidly, or accusing others of the same.

One situation you haven't considered to support the possibility of hardware related failure: If, as Mac Certified Dan points out, the GUI functionality is entirely a function of the video card, then that video card is going to have firmware. If there is a subtle, small flaw in the flash memory for the firmware, and the cursor management logic resides in that portion of memory, and if that logic has a function to revert the cursor to its previous or default image, that function could very well behave erratically and fail to function sometimes, which WOULD explain the cursor changing on mouseover but not reverting on mouseleave.

Is it Probable? No. But that hasn't been my point, has it? My point has been that it is one possibility. My point has been that one should keep their minds open to all possible causes of a problem. I still think software is most likely and an occam's razor process of elimination is the best way to find the problem, but one should never DISMISS obscure and unlikely causes out of hand simply because they aren't the most likely - doing so sets you up to fail at finding the solution if the first suspect isn't the key.

Once again. I never said that it is "WITHOUT A DOUBT NOT A HARDWARE PROBLEM" I was saying that it's a pointless waste of time to even consider such at this point in the game. Maybe once every possible solution is eliminated you can start to think about that kind of stuff. Considering it at this stage is a waste of time. It makes the problem sound *really* serious. It's not.

I also said if it turns out that I am wrong and it is infact the hardware let me know.

 

[gibbons]

Also, Try creating a new account and login that way. This can further isolate the problem

Dan, Kent, Mike, et.al.,

Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions. I've been on the run for the past few days. I'll try some of these things tonight.

Chip

 

[corjulo]

Really?


Based on my experience in the development of Unix based hardware accelerated GUI's I am saying that it is not the graphics card. It just does not make sense. I would guess they are interfacing with the graphics card via OpenGL. If the card was wired wrong you would have a very unstable system and many..many graphical flaws.

I said my opinion. Just as someone else said their opinion. I also said "Prove me wrong" meaning if I am wrong show me proof.

Don't put too much time into reading what I write. I'm simply writing what my brain is thinking. I don't have the time to sit here and try to proof read everything I do to make sure that I do not offend someone.

Nope. Quartz, a form of display postscript, Not OpenGL. OpenGL API's are certainly part of the OS, as is quicktime but I do not believe they are used in the Finder. Maybe on the intel version. Nobody gets a close look at the Finder..very secret.

let me be clear that I still believe software should be eliminated first. On that we agree.

 

[corjulo]

Dan, Kent, Mike, et.al.,

Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions. I've been on the run for the past few days. I'll try some of these things tonight.

Chip

Call me if you have any trouble. I can walk you through a few things. An upset wife is an unacceptable condition for a Mac tech!!

 

[jesse]

Nope. Quartz, a form of display postscript, Not OpenGL. OpenGL API's are certainly part of the OS

Here is what I know... I know quite a few of the Mac video cards are Nvidia. I know that these Nvidia chipsets are the same on that is used in the PC. Therefore there is no way that Nvidia created a new 3D graphics substructure for the Mac GUI. For 3D acceleration these NVidia chipsets support either DirectX or OpenGL. That's all there really is in the entire industry.

Quartz would be the software API that drives the 3D GUI. So if you want to perform a 3D function in the GUI you would call Quartz. Quartz is going to be speaking to the video card in either:

DirectX or OpenGL

Since this is Apple. We can cross DirectX off the list..and that leaves us with OpenGL.

Hardware Accelerated GUIs are the thing right now. There are quite a few projects for Linux ..One major one being developed by Novell (Compiz/XGL) and another by Sun (forgot the name).