Low-wing capable of carrying four adults?
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Stryker1112
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So I'm trying to look at these planes too. What other reasonable plane are we talking about that can carry 102 gallons of fuel and nearly 700 lbs? I have been looking at the Cherokee sixs as they seem able to haul the most
Hank S
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Don't look at how many gallons of fuel the plane will carry. Look at how many gallons of fuel [including reserve] are required to reach your destination, then see how much useful load is left.
-100 gals at 15 gph and 150 knots will take you 900 nm. With 1300 lb available, you have 700 lbs left. Can a Toga do this? I'm guessing from your numbers above.
-64 gallons at 10 gph and 150 knots will take you 810 nm. With 1100 lb available, you have 716 lbs left. This is Mooney F & J territory, and with proper LOP the range will increase.
Someone flew their Mooney J from NYC to San Marcos, Texas, non-stop, last fall. He has extended range tanks, ~100 gals, and flew very LOP for something like 11 or 12 hours. It's all what you want to do. Seems he carried a couple of empty Gatorade bottles from NYC that arrived in Texas full again.
-100 gals at 15 gph and 150 knots will take you 900 nm. With 1300 lb available, you have 700 lbs left. Can a Toga do this? I'm guessing from your numbers above.
-64 gallons at 10 gph and 150 knots will take you 810 nm. With 1100 lb available, you have 716 lbs left. This is Mooney F & J territory, and with proper LOP the range will increase.
Someone flew their Mooney J from NYC to San Marcos, Texas, non-stop, last fall. He has extended range tanks, ~100 gals, and flew very LOP for something like 11 or 12 hours. It's all what you want to do. Seems he carried a couple of empty Gatorade bottles from NYC that arrived in Texas full again.
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Stryker1112
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Good point
Chris Mitchell
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You might need to define your typical mission and then let that tell you what airplane you need (like Hank mentioned above). If you start seriously looking at the PA32s the Six will have the highest useful load, with the PA32-260 offering, generally speaking, the highest useful load of all of them. Specifically, the 260 will give a 1500-1600lb useful load (1000lb after full fuel). The 260 is flat lander plane thought and isn't going set any speed records (well, maybe a few slow speed records
). You could safely assume that the 260 will get you 620 or so nm down the road with at least an hour left in the tank(s)...which is my min fuel requirement.On the other hand, you could look at the B36TC, which I holds 102 gallons useable and has a 3850 MTOW, approx. 1200 - 1300 useful load
Hank S
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You might need to define your typical mission and then let that tell you what airplane you need (like Hank mentioned above). If you start seriously looking at the PA32s the Six will have the highest useful load, with the PA32-260 offering, generally speaking, the highest useful load of all of them. Specifically, the 260 will give a 1500-1600lb useful load (1000lb after full fuel). The 260 is flat lander plane thought and isn't going set any speed records (well, maybe a few slow speed records
Good Lord! 100 gallons to go 620 nm?? My 180-hp M20-C will go farther than that with its stock 52 gallon capacity, and have more than an hour left!
Chris Mitchell
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The 260 (and 300) holds 84 gallons.
You fly a Mooney, which means you will get there before me and burn less gas than me and I will carry all the stuff and people you had to leave behind
Airplanes are all about compromise!
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My 68F had reclining/removable rear seats. Very nice for camping trips with the 2 of us. Called it our station wagon.
A Mooney joke claims they turbocharged the Arrow to keep up with Mooneys.
Hank S
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True enough! When we travel, I always run out of cube before weight. Lunching and flightseeing with 4 people can be challenging, like the trip with three buddies up the Outer Banks to FFA and back. Had to fuel carefully . . . Still made it back to the grass strip with enough to fly out for fuel the next day and land there with an hour's worth.
You fly with excess useful load; I fly with much less empty space most of the time. But it has helped my wife learn how to pack semi-reasonably when we travel, as the plane will hold most of what fits loosely in the trunk of her Corolla with the baggage area and back seat piled nearly to the ceiling.
You fly with excess useful load; I fly with much less empty space most of the time. But it has helped my wife learn how to pack semi-reasonably when we travel, as the plane will hold most of what fits loosely in the trunk of her Corolla with the baggage area and back seat piled nearly to the ceiling.
Chris Mitchell
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The Six won't be my last airplane, but it works great for me right now. With my wife, 13 and 18 year old sons we can throw in what ever we want, where ever we want in the plane and just go. But...I see a BE35 in my future, especially as my boys fly with us less and less.
Minimum RPM with maximum manifold pressure for the desired speed @ about 10° LOP will get you your best BSFC for that speed. Read the Lindbergh Doctrine.
JHW
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Except that you need a 2nd mooney to do the same trip.
Hank S
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All depends on how often you make 4 people plus many bag flights. Last time I took 4 large adults, I could only carry 4 hours' fuel and it was a day trip to Kitty Hawk and back. Fueled up, flew there; hopped over to Dare Co., fueled, flew back. The two in the back seat were happy to get out and stretch, and it was about 90 minutes or so.
If your mission is 4 people with bags, going 500+ nm regularly, my plane is a poor choice.
I do know someone who made two round trips in his Mooney Rocket moving people and gear a similar short distance. He bought his plane to fly, and he flies it!
If your mission is 4 people with bags, going 500+ nm regularly, my plane is a poor choice.
I do know someone who made two round trips in his Mooney Rocket moving people and gear a similar short distance. He bought his plane to fly, and he flies it!
rbridges
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Chris Mitchell
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useful load vs speed vs money in your bank account
Yep...and don't forget the cool factor. That should be fit in wherever and whenever possible. Unfortunately, the cool factor is pretty low with an older PA32-260.
drotto
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These are fairly close for the toga's, but they do vary somewhat for the retract vs turbo vs normal aspiration, etc. There are actually 4 Saratoga models for the earier model line. The Saratoga SP (retract) I have access to is 1298 useful load, cruises at 158 knots (about 65% power), and is a little better on fuel at about 14.5 GPH (but for safety 15 is used for calculations). With that said, put 70 gallons in the plane, and you can easily go 630 nm and have 878 to stuff in the plane. How many people are really going to want to go more than 4 hours without a pitstop? Plus the cabin is the largest of the common personal planes you see.
Where the Saratogas get bad on useful load (and the late model Bonanzas for that matter), are after the New Piper was introduced in the early nineties, and the planes were changed to the HP and TC designations. They lose 100 to 150 useful with the model "refresh".
Stryker1112
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My biggest problem is I have 3 kids so I need a 5 seater. That's why the 6x interests me
drotto
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6x is a good plane, and has a useful load in the 1250 or so area. If you need the higher useful load you would be much better served with a Cherokee 6 (300 hp version) from the mid 70's (which is the older 6x), which frequently have useful loads in the 1400 range. With 84 gallon tanks that gives you around 900 full fuel. If you want to go even older you can sometimes find the Cherokee 260, and those do have loads approaching 1500 or even 1600 in rare cases.
All of the pre 1985 Saratogas would fit you mission statement. The earlier Beechcraft Bonanza (A36 is popular) is also a good pick. Again, the eariler verions have better useful loads (the current G36's useful load is only about 1100). Also, if you find a model with tip tanks that will increase the useful load by 300 lbs via STC with tanks. Granted most of that is to carry the 30 to 40 gallons of added fuel, but nothing says you have to fly with fuel in those tanks, and you get to kep the load increase.
Chris Mitchell
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Curiously...why the 6X and not a late 60s - early 70s Six? Not saying the X is a bad way to go but you could get a nice Six for a lot less $ and have a plane with more useful load.
flyingcheesehead
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My definition of a large adult is ME.
6'4" and 300#. I've flown the Ovation with my brother (6'2") and his wife (6'0") in the back seats (her mother was the 4th person). They didn't complain.Of course, there's quite a difference between back-seat room in the short (C,E), medium (F,J,K) and long (M,R,S,TN) Mooneys, but they often get lumped together.