Low time pilot going to KSFO.

amoel

amoel

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amoel
Hello guys, I will be flying to KSFO next week from Southern California (San Diego) this is only my second flight to a Class B airport. I am instrument rated but altogether a very low time pilot with just under 200 hours.

I would appreciate any tips you can give me regarding the approach that I can expect, what about the winds in KSFO lately up to 15-25 knots?, if I fly VFR should I expect them to delay my entry to class B due to traffic? Am I better off in this regard if I fly IFR? Or maybe pick up an IFR clearance along the way?

Should I fly instead to a smaller airport?

Thanks for the help!
 
There is a minimum $175 landing fee at KSFO. KSQL isn't far away and apparently has a new Zipcar site, and KOAK and KHWD have OK connections to BART.

Most of us haven't flown there because of that landing fee.

The conga line is constant going into 28. I'd expect a lot of delays.

Winds are usually right down the runway and are significantly less further south. 15-20 knots is absolutely normal in the afternoon. IMC is more likely only at KHAF.

Unless you really have to go to KSFO, I'd suggest elsewhere. Every other airport in the region -- even KSJC -- is more friendly to spam cans. It's not like KSAN. More like KLAX.
 
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Watch out for that sea wall...

MAKG1 said:
There is a minimum $175 landing fee at KSFO.
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:yikes:

Aside from that, I've tried to get in there once, and it didn't work out too well. It was during Fleet Week with grumpy controllers, so I got a hold with about a 2hr EFC. Long story short, ended up having to report minimum fuel and got priority into KOAK...
 
Even being on an IFR flight plan do you think they will delay me?
 
amoel said:
Even being on an IFR flight plan do you think they will delay me?
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They definitely could delay you, even on an IFR flight plan. They delay airlines and business jets on a fairly regular basis. The layout of the airport isn't the best for a high level of traffic although I think the controllers do a good job. The thing is, most of the airplanes that use the airport are matched in speed. If you're going half the speed it throws a wrench in the system.
 
amoel said:
Hello guys, I will be flying to KSFO next week!
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Son, if you can afford the landing fees, the tiedown fees, and all the other fees at SFO, then you can afford to hire an instructor pilot to go with you and coach you.

Jim
 
I was IFR, but again, it was during Fleet Week, so not really a fair comparison.
 
I wouldn't fly GA into SFO unless there was an extremely compelling reason. I spent three years operating out of CGAS SFO and while we didn't have much to do with the normal flow of traffic, (we'd pick up off the pad and head straight out over the bay at about 300ft until clear unless 1/19 was in use then we would skirt the shore to the north), but the GA traffic other than bizjets was very infrequent. Lots of better choices in the area.
 
Why SFO? If you are not totally confident you can fly in and out without disruption I would suggest a smaller/less busy destination, FWIW.

'Gimp
 
SFO is kind of a pain. Especially if one of the 28's is closed and they are landing on a single runway when the weather is IFR. BTDT.

If you end up going there, ask for 28R at intersection E for departure. ;)
 
I have not been to KSFO, but I've been to a number of other bravos on small aircraft. If you specifically want to land at KSFO (just because it's KSFO) I recommend finding out when they are not busy (at night usually) and plan your flight to arrive then, if you just want to get to San Francisco I'd use one of the smaller nearby airports.

You do not have to have an IFR flight plan, however it might make things easier. Call the tower, tell them what your doing (and what type of aircraft you're flying) and they will tell you how to do things.

If your coming in on a less than 150kts GA aircraft I would recommend filing IFR. You do not have to pickup the clearance (but do go with flight following). If you file IFR the tower will expect you and plan things accordingly, should make everything much easier.
If you have hard time finding the tower's phone number, call the FBO on the field and they will not have a problem telling you.


Also, familiarize yourself with the taxiway diagram and make sure you know where your going. I have had them give me complicated taxi clearances on touchdown itself, which is a bit of a pain in the @&$.
 
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File IFR IMO.

Load the approach and use it even if you are given a visual. It's easy to be off visually on your runway assignment and cause a problem.

Taxi diagrams as mentioned. Something like Foreflight is a huge help on the ground.
 
As others have mentioned, landing fees are extremely high and you will get a messed up routing IFR or VFR unless you happen to go in during a low traffic period.

Been there, done that, not worth it, go someplace else. KOAK is somewhat hospitable.
 
Hello guys, I will be flying to KSFO next week
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Why do you want to be a jerk? Yes you have a perfect right to go there but it is not a place for little airplanes.
 
airdale said:
Why do you want to be a jerk? Yes you have a perfect right to go there but it is not a place for little airplanes.
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Same question to you.


If he can pay the landing fees and can deal with ATC there is nothing wrong with him being there.
 
My experience flying into Class B GA is if you can, remain VFR on Flight Following as it gives the controllers more latitude with what they can do with you. I usually get brought in on a close in base well out of the normal flow of traffic and turned in tight and hot. The more competent and confident you sound on the radio, the more they will trust you to get you down in a minimum gap. I've always had good luck being brought in and gotten out of the way as quickly as possible, which is fine by me. I'll keep the speed up until short final and land it long if that's what works best for them.
 
If you want a huge landing fee, I say go for it! Just file IFR, and if its vmc offer to modify your entry to the airport. NTC controllers are some of the best, they will fit you in!
 
I work there. It is a busy place and it's not often that I see GA traffic but they can certainly accommodate you without disruption. Helicopters come and go all the time and that sight seeing blimp flys right over at 800 feet with no trouble. Wind shouldn't be a problem as the runways are really, really big. I think taxiing on the ground would have a pretty decent pucker factor though :eek:
 
When I learned to fly in 1991, the landing fee was $30, and that was enough to discourage me from doing it. I should have jumped at the bargain!
 
Henning said:
My experience flying into Class B GA is if you can, remain VFR on Flight Following as it gives the controllers more latitude with what they can do with you...
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That's what I would have thought.
 
A lot of good info for class B find the slow time and fly VFR ,and be ready for taxi instructions which usually come at you rather quickly .Study the airport layout before you fly the trip,also you might want to monitor the radio for a few days and see how they route the ga aircraft.
 
Given how close Oakland is - and how easy the BART connection is from there to the City - there is no reason for anyone smaller than a G-IV to go into SFO.

You can do Hayward but I would not want to even go to the BART station in Hayward after dark. The guys who hangar there have cars - and probably don't look around much when driving in and out!

Not a chance I'd go to SFO in a single engine piston - even if you can.
 
Concord is a pretty close walk to the BART as well, and often better weather.
 
Maybe I'm wrong but I was under the impression the OP wanted to do this as some sort of bucket-list thing, not because he wanted to visit Fisherman's Wharf.
 
Thank you all very much for the input guys! I think I might go to KSQL and maybe try SFO at a later time, but I'll make a decision after calling tower later today and see what they tell me regarding busy times.

Any tip on flying over the Golden Gate on my way back if I do depart from KSQL?
 
KSFO itself may be a problem, but crossing its airspace is not.

Request a Class B transition from KSQL ground. Cross 101 right away, and don't cross Hwy 92 until cleared into Class B. SFO Tower likes 1500 feet, NorCal likes 3500. 1500 often gets bumpy, and Sutro Tower is higher than that, so watch your obstructions. 3500 may be a bit of an aggressive climb from KSQL.

The usual restriction is to remain west of 101. That's a lot of space to work with.

Go check out the bridge, then request another Class B transition from NorCal and go back. If you're going elswhere around the City, check for Giants games. It's far enough from the bridge not to be a problem if that's all you're doing, but it's very close to downtown.

If Class B transitions aren't working for whatever reason, you can try to transition KOAK. Don't cross the San Mateo Bridge unless east of mid-span. They like 1400 feet. 1500 will put you in a really bad place in Class B.

Crossing under Class B by KHAF is probably not an option due to weather. It's been overcast every single day, and the floor is quite low. The I-680 corridor would work if no transitions are forthcoming.
 
I fly into KSFO almost two times a week every week but in a private helicopter. It's a piece of cake and if you are a Signature Platinum member they will waive the handling fee which really takes a lot of the sting off. I don't know how it is for fixed wing but for a helicopter it's a piece of cake landing at the ramp directly.
 
amoel said:
Thank you all very much for the input guys! I think I might go to KSQL and maybe try SFO at a later time, but I'll make a decision after calling tower later today and see what they tell me regarding busy times.

Any tip on flying over the Golden Gate on my way back if I do depart from KSQL?
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Let us know what tower says.
 
Hey guys, I talked to tower, they told me that they don't have problems with smaller airplanes landing there (he told me a Piper Navajo just took off earlier today), but that the flow of traffic is controlled by approach and they will sequence me with the rest of the traffic, etc. I asked him for particular times with less incoming traffic but he did not want to commit an answer, he says it varies a lot with the weather, etc.

So all in all, I think I am going to land in SQL, although I don't like how the crosswind looks at this very moment! 14G24 crosswind component right now!

I will use KOAK as an alternate.

I also asked him about the transition northbound to fly over the golden gate he told me its a piece of cake and that they will usually accommodate those requests.

Thanks to all for the input!
 
Awesome, let us know how it goes.


BTW you do realize that a Navajo is slightly bigger than a typical GA plane :wink2:
 
I think you looked at the wrong airport. The worst wind in the last 6 hours was 10G16, 50 deg off runway heading. Few at 1500. The following hour was down to 7 knots.

Go further south for milder wind. KPAO was 300@11 at that time. Runway heading is 310.
 
Hey man if you need to go into SFO and don't mind the fees, just go! Enjoy! Being on your "A" game radio wise would be a good idea.

If SFO is like any other class B primary airport, its pretty much a non-event if you're IFR... in my experience the flying is substantially easier than going into a satellite airport: No need to worry about bravo, and far less need to worry about traffic conflicts.

Where it can get complicated is after landing. SFO has a pretty simple layout for going to the FBO but having ground in the standby and your anticipated taxi route pre-briefed will put you on par with the pros.
 
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