Lost the Dakota for a couple weeks...

[Clark1961]

Dropped it off at the avionics shop for some long overdue upgrades...

The panel was basically factory original with a LORAN added in the late 80's. The LORAN had suffered a brain injury and was reduced to only being able to determine its current location.

I thought about adding just a 430w and continuing to trust the sucking, blowing, and sparking instruments. In the end, the battery back-up won. An Aspen along with a used KLN-90B will be installed over the next two weeks. Going with the used GPS takes advantage of most of the Aspen's functions without spending the $$$ to add roll steering. It isn't ideal but it'll be a really nice upgrade from the drifting DG and /A.

I'm really looking forward to learning the new systems.

 

[OtisAir]

Please let us know how that goes. My avionics are older than Spot. I just bought a Cheetah Fl190 (portable) but everything else (permanent) has been around since bell bottoms. I'm comfortable with it, but everytime I fly a G1000, it reminds me how nice it can be.

 

[ScottM]

Dropped it off at the avionics shop for some long overdue upgrades...

The panel was basically factory original with a LORAN added in the late 80's. The LORAN had suffered a brain injury and was reduced to only being able to determine its current location.

I thought about adding just a 430w and continuing to trust the sucking, blowing, and sparking instruments. In the end, the battery back-up won. An Aspen along with a used KLN-90B will be installed over the next two weeks. Going with the used GPS takes advantage of most of the Aspen's functions without spending the $$$ to add roll steering. It isn't ideal but it'll be a really nice upgrade from the drifting DG and /A.

I'm really looking forward to learning the new systems.

I just upgrade my KLN90B to a 430W. The 90B is a capable and nice GPS. I just wanted WAAS and a bigger more detailed map.

I was happy I was able to sell my 90b to someone that was looking to upgrade. I am happy it is in an airplane and still flying.

 

[Clark1961]

I'll let folks know how it goes. I hope it doesn't go dark! Supposedly the temperature problem has been fixed by exhausting air under the panel and not depending on heat radiation from the screen (as originally designed).

Going with the Aspen before the 430w was a tough call since the cost is about a wash. At least the 90B will give me /G and full air data function from the Aspen. I'm thinkin' add the 430w in a few years which will add roll steering and precision GPS approaches. I know the roll steering would be really nice but the Altimatic IIIc does ok with manual control and CDI & glideslope input - it's just a little more work on my part during an approach.

It was interesting looking for a shop that had done an Aspen install with the Century autopilot. One shop asked if the Century was on the STC list and another shop didn't even return my call. As I understand it, the installation requires a signal modification board between the Aspen and the Century. Aspen has specs for the board but doesn't manufacture it. I'm thinkin' that Aspen is really targeting the S-Tec & Garmin markets so the rest of us have to do a bit more work. Oh, the Collins radios require adapters also. At least the adapters are available from Aspen...

 

[wsuffa]

Let me know about the Aspen.

I've thought about pulling the KI525 HSI system and gaining some useful load, but I am really afraid that the Aspen will end up being like the Avidyne system that a certain someone is having real support problems with.

 

[flyersfan31]

Kinda funny. Add an Aspen. Add a KLN90B. Sorta one step forward, one step back.

No offense. If you're comfy programming the 90B, then obviously it's a good discount choice. My only concern would be for how long you'll be able to keep upgrading the DBs.

Hell, it'll probably work better than Avidyne!

 

[Clark1961]

Kinda funny. Add an Aspen. Add a KLN90B. Sorta one step forward, one step back.

No offense. If you're comfy programming the 90B, then obviously it's a good discount choice. My only concern would be for how long you'll be able to keep upgrading the DBs.

Hell, it'll probably work better than Avidyne!

Gotta agree with you that mixing technology generations for installation is "kinda funny." If the bank account could've handled it, I certainly wouldn't be doing it the way I am. I think the redundancy and capability added by the Aspen are worth it but I'm sure that other folks would make other choices.

Hopefully, the 90B will only be primary GPS for a couple years. I'm thinking engine monitor next year and then 430w the year after that.

 

[Anthony]

I'm just going to get a 396 and use the t panel graphics page and be done with it.

 

[ScottM]

Instruments? what type of wimpy pilots needs instruments? If Lindberg could deliver the mail with just a compass in IMC then that should be good enough for the rest of us.

 

[Everskyward]

Instruments? what type of wimpy pilots needs instruments? If Lindberg could deliver the mail with just a compass in IMC then that should be good enough for the rest of us.

I'm just amazed at how far technology has come in even the past 10 years and what people are putting in their airplanes. I have yet to fly an airplane with WAAS and I have only flown an airplane with uplink weather... once.

 

[Clark1961]

Instruments? what type of wimpy pilots needs instruments? If Lindberg could deliver the mail with just a compass in IMC then that should be good enough for the rest of us.

Right now I'm planning on learning cat and duck IFR procedures as a back-up to the Aspen. I'll put the mail and compass thing on the list.

I'm just going to get a 396 and use the t panel graphics page and be done with it.

I gotta admit that was not an "other choice" I had considered. In the future I will consult you, Anthony, just to be sure that I've covered all the possible options.

 

[flyersfan31]

I'm just amazed at how far technology has come in even the past 10 years and what people are putting in their airplanes. I have yet to fly an airplane with WAAS and I have only flown an airplane with uplink weather... once.

You gotta get out of those old-fangled jets and fly something fancy!

 

[Anthony]

I gotta admit that was not an "other choice" I had considered. In the future I will consult you, Anthony, just to be sure that I've covered all the possible options.

I hope you saw the smiley and that I was just kidding. However, I do think that having basic IFR in good working order and training to use it combined with a good GPS as backup is an alternative to the lastest, expensive, wizbang stuff.

 

[Everskyward]

You gotta get out of those old-fangled jets and fly something fancy!

I know. In school we were laughing about the fact that if you want to buy something from Cessna which has WAAS you need to buy a Mustang... or a 182. Anything bigger than that doesn't have it.

 

[Clark1961]

I hope you saw the smiley and that I was just kidding. However, I do think that having basic IFR in good working order and training to use it combined with a good GPS as backup is an alternative to the lastest, expensive, wizbang stuff.

Oh yeah, I saw the smiley, no probs.

That "good working order" clause is the one that gets me. Sure, I can fly altimeter, airspeed, and TC until the cows come home. I'd really rather not have to do so because some fifty cent carbon vane breaks. And if that 30 year old breaker decides to quit then I'd really be down to the bare edge. Ok, I wouldn't be taking up much room there on the edge but it wouldn't be comfortable at all. I think the Aspen is a reasonable solution. I really hope it doesn't turn out to be a problem like the Avidyne.

 

[Ted]

Sounds like a good choice to me. I just got the Aztec back from its avionics upgrade last week, replacing the Garmin 150 and #1 KX 170B with a KLN 94 and KX 155A.

At first I suffered a little buyer's remorse for not getting the 430. However after putting about 12 hours on it (yes, I flew 11 hours last weekend plus the 1 hour to get it home from the avionics shop), I am happy with my decision. I saved a bunch of money vs. a 430 upgrade, the functionality of what I have is great (in some ways better than a 430, I think), and I also have the GPS and the #1 Nav/Com still separated. That last part is a much nicer failure mode, in my opinion. I'll probably keep the avionics in this current setup as long as I keep the plane, unless I keep the thing for a truly ridiculous amount of time.

The job took 2.5 weeks for me. That included some delays for parts orders (some of which had to do with the fact that the avionics were pulled from another plane that wasn't another Aztec), plus he did a good amount of "nice-to-do" work that wasn't fully necessary, but was probably good to get done. Truthfully, I was looking at putting in a KLN 90B, but when this KLN 94 came along at the price it did, that made more sense.

Post pictures when it's done! I'll be curious to see what you think of the Aspen - that might be in my future when the HSI/AI go out.

 

[jsstevens]

Gotta agree with you that mixing technology generations for installation is "kinda funny." If the bank account could've handled it, I certainly wouldn't be doing it the way I am. I think the redundancy and capability added by the Aspen are worth it but I'm sure that other folks would make other choices.

Hopefully, the 90B will only be primary GPS for a couple years. I'm thinking engine monitor next year and then 430w the year after that.

If you don't mind sharing, what's the Aspen going to cost?

John

 

[Clark1961]

If you don't mind sharing, what's the Aspen going to cost?

Fixed price quote is 11.6 AMU for the Aspen. As long as Aspen comes through with the rebate it'll 10.6 when fully settled.

 

[ScottM]

Fixed price quote is 11.6 AMU for the Aspen. As long as Aspen comes through with the rebate it'll 10.6 when fully settled.

Is that for the pilot or the pro?

 

[Clark1961]

Pro.

As far as I know the Pilot version doesn't interface with an autopilot or navs.

 

[Steve]

I believe you'll be happy with the Aspen.

I am.

I'll be a lot happier when the engine is back on in front of it....

 

[jsbougher]

How about a PIREP on the Flight Cheetah. Their stuff has always looked like a great value with a full feature set, but I've never known anyone that has had one. I've shied away from anything non-dedicated since my experience with Anywhere Map back in '02. Every time I read about issues with Blue Mountain it made me think of Anywhere Map ... great on paper, nice people, unstable platform, always starting new stuff before finishing the old, etc. I can't get past that experience when looking at the Flight Cheetah, so I'd love to hear how it's working for you. I'd have it in my experimental, so a pile of wires and portability aren't an issue, but stability and usability is.

Please let us know how that goes. My avionics are older than Spot. I just bought a Cheetah Fl190 (portable) but everything else (permanent) has been around since bell bottoms. I'm comfortable with it, but everytime I fly a G1000, it reminds me how nice it can be.

 

[OtisAir]

How about a PIREP on the Flight Cheetah.

Will do. I just bought a Wx Worx component and if I don't get any quality time with it (FL190 / Wx) prior to Osh, I'll definitely be doing a PIREP on it upon my return from Osh.

 

[Clark1961]

Looked at the disaster (instal) today. They're probably about 60% done. All the wires are run and various auxiliary bits are mounted. The RSM and Aspen need to be mounted, various wires terminated, and other instruments re-installed (with vacuum line re-route). Connections between Aspen and Century IIIc also must be fabricated. Pitot & static still remain to be tapped. Piper hard piped the air lines.

It'd be done next or so week except the shop owner will be in Florida on a project for the next week and a half. Looking at early August acceptance testing. Junior shop tech will install RSM and terminate wiring next week under A&P supervision.

In other words, I was happy to see the Aspen in the aircraft today. Unfortunately, it was still in the original box...

 

[Ted]

The good part is that once it's all done, you'll be happy.

 

[Clark1961]

Test flight scheduled for Thursday morning. Sounds like they would have finished the installation today if they had the proper connection for the GPS antenna. Hmmm, they only had about three weeks to notice that one. Oh well, it's progress.

 

[steingar]

We've priced adding a used GPS and nav/com, and by the time all the bills are paid the 430 is about an AMU or two more. But for that you get a shiny new instrument with a warranty and WAAS. If I can ever cough up the bucks that's what we'll do. Big if.

 

[Clark1961]

Yup, it was a tough call between the Aspen and a 430w. In the end, redundant instruments decided it. Maybe next year (or the year after) on the 430...

 

[Clark1961]

Picked up the Dakota yesterday. Had a couple glitches on the acceptance testing but no problems with the Aspen itself. Ran the aircraft around a compass rose and the heading was always within 2 degrees before we calibrated it. Not too bad at all. The only noticeable concern is the coupled localizer intercept was 30 degrees instead of the book value of 45. A variable resistor controls that so I'll have to tweak it until it's right.

Total flight time was about three hours so it's well on the way to getting past the infant mortality stage.

The attached picture is lousy. I'll have to get a better one next time I fly since the flash picture in the dark hangar is such poor quality. Oh well.

Overall, I'm happy with it so far. The controls are intuitive and I'm picking up the display quicker than I thought I might. I'm still using the analog airspeed but that's about it.

 

[Ted]

Very cool, hope you enjoy it! I may go for an Aspen when something breaks and gives me a reason to upgrade...

 

[Clark1961]

I gotta say very cool indeed. Took a flight early this a.m. to work on night proficiency along with learning the Aspen and KLN-90B. Oh man! (This is definitely a grown-up toy so oh boy doesn't work).

A short summary is that the Aspen works as advertised. Most of the en-route flying can be automated with auto-updates from the GPS and the GPS map is displayed with the HIS or Arc super-imposed. Just set the map range so the destination is in the Arc then point the aircraft so the destination stays at the top of the Arc. IFR nav just got easier with situational awareness nicely enhanced.

The information density is not a problem - the Aspen folks seem to have figured out how to put things together in a useful way.

I'm still working on getting used to the "ball" - it seems much less sensitive than the actual ball.

The VSI function is very nice. I thought the digital display would be a problem but vertical speeds are displayed very smoothly. The vertical speed bar display is less useful than the digital read out.

I think I'll keep it...

 

[Steve]

The Aspen folks at Airventure '09 stated a software update (ver. 2.0) was scheduled for release mid-September to address nighttime display brightness settings (to allow better dimming) as well as some issues that aerobatic pilots had identified, among other items. You might want to check with your avionics shop to schedule an appointment.

They also mentioned they are working on integrating synthetic vision into their displays.

The "ball" is a rather small arc and took me some time getting use to. I view it as more a qualitative indication than a quantitative one, despite the degree gradations.