Lost My Bravoginity Today

Sinistar

Sinistar

En-Route
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
3,734
Display Name
Display name:
Brad
TLDR: First time landing at a Bravo. No pilot deviation. Fun :) Expensive :(

Definitely not as long in the making as @Ryanb's adventure today but so cool to check this off the list!!!

Today it was CAVU and winds dead calm even aloft. I spent about 30 minutes beforehand figuring out all the frequencies and taxiways. Then it was time to go.

A quick climb up to 3000 and checked in with MPLS Approach. GPS was showing 18 min to arrival and ground speed was 152mph. Asked for Flight Following direct to KMSP. To make things easier I had pulled arrival ASOS before checking in. After receiving the squawk, bravo clearance and altimeter he asked if i had the wx and said he'd read it to me...awesome. Then told me to expect 12R.

When i was handed off to tower they asked intentions. From reading MSP's AF/D it says all landings must go to the ramp. But I thought I would ask for a full stop and taxi back and see what happens. The controller said this was a first for him and went off to ask the supervisor :) Sup said either a low approach or full stop to FBO. So I asked for the full stop and felt the skymiles card cringe a bit.

Much like @Ryanb I was given a straight in from at least 8 miles out. There wasnt much landing traffic and perhaps more departing traffic. So a nice long straight in with a American Airlines plane waiting for me to land.

I managed to taxi without a progressive, but Signature was close it was easy.

The FBO experience was great....and expensive. Almost $150! They waived the $60 landing fee with $60 of fuel but the rest was fees. The landing fee for the 182 was over $70! When I had called last fall it was just $28. So I'm thinking I was charged wrong. Gonna check on that tomorrow.

Actually the only real "new" thing was using clearance delivery to get a VFR clearance, FF and squawk to get back out. Also got the "Cleared in the MSP class Bravo..." which sounds funny since I'm already in the Bravo.

I was offered a intersection departure but declined and asked for full length. Mainly just to experience the full taxi, crossing a huge Bravo runway and being closer to see the departing planes.

As another American Flight took off ahead of me the tower called just as I was about to check in. They gave me a line up and wait. About 20 seconds later was cleared for take off with an Airbus on 5mile final and given a caution for wake turbulence. I was also cleared to turn right (over the airport) so between getting off the runway 4000ft shorter than the jet and the right turn, wake turbulence was not an issue.

The flight home was mostly uneventful and the same 152mph back so zero winds aloft. My eye started itching and burning on descent into the downwind. Lots of farmers burning stuff and I think the smoke was just hanging there, worse than it looked.

Very glad I did this!

I decided to not take anyone. I figured it would be my luck that something dumb would happen and the news would get all over it...
not social distancing and all ... and I'd wreck it for all other pilots.

I wasn't the only one doing this here at KMSP. A 172 just pulled in just as I was departing. I checked flight aware and looks like we were the only 2 for as far back as flight aware shows arrivals.

My only regret is that I didnt get the audio. The gopros were running but for some reason it didnt get the ATC/intercom.

EDIT: Added some photos
A_C2_2.MP4.16_37_56_26.Still007.jpg A_C3_2.MP4.17_31_49_04.Still013.jpg A_C3_2.MP4.17_31_46_04.Still012.jpg A_C3_2.MP4.17_33_02_04.Still014.jpg A_C3_2.MP4.17_33_32_01.Still015.jpg A_C1_2.MP4.17_33_03_07.Still001.jpg A_C3_2.MP4.17_28_53_05.Still003.jpg
 
Last edited:
Sinistar said:
They waived the $60 landing fee with $60 of fuel...
Click to expand...
That's, what? 7 gallons? Enough for run-up, taxi, takeoff and climb to pattern altitude? :cheerswine:

Glad you got to scratch your itch.
 
I didn’t go to the FBO, so I avoided the landing fee scam. Just did a full stop and taxied back.

Glad to hear you popped your cherry! It was a fun day for both of us!
 
Glad it worked well for you. I've flown through SEA's B space (yes, I was cleared) and taken off and landed at PHNL. It is different than the class D I fly out of.
 
Kmsp is Minneapolis at Paul in case anyone else was curious
 
Do some prior planning and studying and pick the right time and it's not that big a deal. Sounds like a good learning experience, good for you.
 
Ryanb said:
I didn’t go to the FBO, so I avoided the landing fee scam. Just did a full stop and taxied back.

Glad to hear you popped your cherry! It was a fun day for both of us!
Click to expand...
Talk about irony. I think we both did the flight around 5pm (local time). And I also noticed what looked like way more departures but it might also be that they had more arrivals on another parallel but with the terminal buildings in between its hard to tell.
 
Sinistar said:
Talk about irony. I think we both did the flight around 5pm (local time). And I also noticed what looked like way more departures but it might also be that they had more arrivals on another parallel but with the terminal buildings in between its hard to tell.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there were some arrivals, but the majority of the traffic seemed to be departures taking off from the parallel.
 
Class B controllers are usually very accommodating,to us little guys. They usually try to give you the runway closest to the FBO. Did a drop off at TPA ,Tampa FL ,the FBO looked the other way so I got a free ride.
 
I’ll have to find my receipt from when I flew to Dulles. That FBO should have gold floors if they regularly charge that much...
 
I've been into MSP once. Got charged plenty of Signature fees, but the owner wanted to be picked up there. They gave me Runway 35. I requested 30L to save the taxiing, but they couldn't accommodate. The ground guys did hold my hand during my taxi in, although I didn't really need it.

Also been into STL. I was the only aircraft around when I landed. Had a single SW 737 following me to depart. Pretty quiet, but I also probably missed the big SW pushes.
 
Wow...and 04/22 was closed. You braved a 1000' shorter runway and made it!!! Risky sheet there!

You da man!!!
 
FYI - Added a few photos to the first post
 
Nice. I'm doing a solo currency flight out of KPAO on Saturday. Your story has me considering taking my 172 into KSFO.

Wait, never mind, just looked up the minimum landing fee. Makes KMSP look reasonable at $90. KSFO wants $261 for a wheel touch. And that's assuming I don't end up being forced into Signature like you were. Looks like ramp fees are a minimum of around $70. sigh. I want it in my logbook, but I can't justify almost $350 for that. With KSJC and KOAK not charging any fees, I can go play with jets for cheap if I want.
 
arnoha said:
Nice. I'm doing a solo currency flight out of KPAO on Saturday. Your story has me considering taking my 172 into KSFO.

Wait, never mind, just looked up the minimum landing fee. Makes KMSP look reasonable at $90. KSFO wants $261 for a wheel touch. And that's assuming I don't end up being forced into Signature like you were. Looks like ramp fees are a minimum of around $70. sigh. I want it in my logbook, but I can't justify almost $350 for that. With KSJC and KOAK not charging any fees, I can go play with jets for cheap if I want.
Click to expand...
Something interesting about SFO. There is not a single remark regarding training flights, instr approaches, touch and go's or forcing GA to a FBO. So you "in theory" have more flexibility at SFO or even ATL.

So you could try one of two things:

Ask for a low approach. Wheels dont touch pavement. No fees.

Request a full stop and taxi back. Then just receive the bill to the registered owner and you could avoid the ramp fees. Even though it doesnt state GA flights must terminate at the FBO (or cudtoms) I have a hunch the tower will ask intentions.

Good luck. Hopefully someone familiar with SFO will chime in. Your request is pretty low in this thread so if you dont get any advice try a new thread to get higher visibility.
 
Sinistar said:
TLDR: First time landing at a Bravo. No pilot deviation. Fun :) Expensive :(

Definitely not as long in the making as @Ryanb's adventure today but so cool to check this off the list!!!

Today it was CAVU and winds dead calm even aloft. I spent about 30 minutes beforehand figuring out all the frequencies and taxiways. Then it was time to go.

A quick climb up to 3000 and checked in with MPLS Approach. GPS was showing 18 min to arrival and ground speed was 152mph. Asked for Flight Following direct to KMSP. To make things easier I had pulled arrival ASOS before checking in. After receiving the squawk, bravo clearance and altimeter he asked if i had the wx and said he'd read it to me...awesome. Then told me to expect 12R.

When i was handed off to tower they asked intentions. From reading MSP's AF/D it says all landings must go to the ramp. But I thought I would ask for a full stop and taxi back and see what happens. The controller said this was a first for him and went off to ask the supervisor :) Sup said either a low approach or full stop to FBO. So I asked for the full stop and felt the skymiles card cringe a bit.

Much like @Ryanb I was given a straight in from at least 8 miles out. There wasnt much landing traffic and perhaps more departing traffic. So a nice long straight in with a American Airlines plane waiting for me to land.

I managed to taxi without a progressive, but Signature was close it was easy.

The FBO experience was great....and expensive. Almost $150! They waived the $60 landing fee with $60 of fuel but the rest was fees. The landing fee for the 182 was over $70! When I had called last fall it was just $28. So I'm thinking I was charged wrong. Gonna check on that tomorrow.

Actually the only real "new" thing was using clearance delivery to get a VFR clearance, FF and squawk to get back out. Also got the "Cleared in the MSP class Bravo..." which sounds funny since I'm already in the Bravo.

I was offered a intersection departure but declined and asked for full length. Mainly just to experience the full taxi, crossing a huge Bravo runway and being closer to see the departing planes.

As another American Flight took off ahead of me the tower called just as I was about to check in. They gave me a line up and wait. About 20 seconds later was cleared for take off with an Airbus on 5mile final and given a caution for wake turbulence. I was also cleared to turn right (over the airport) so between getting off the runway 4000ft shorter than the jet and the right turn, wake turbulence was not an issue.

The flight home was mostly uneventful and the same 152mph back so zero winds aloft. My eye started itching and burning on descent into the downwind. Lots of farmers burning stuff and I think the smoke was just hanging there, worse than it looked.

Very glad I did this!

I decided to not take anyone. I figured it would be my luck that something dumb would happen and the news would get all over it...
not social distancing and all ... and I'd wreck it for all other pilots.

I wasn't the only one doing this here at KMSP. A 172 just pulled in just as I was departing. I checked flight aware and looks like we were the only 2 for as far back as flight aware shows arrivals.

My only regret is that I didnt get the audio. The gopros were running but for some reason it didnt get the ATC/intercom.

EDIT: Added some photos
View attachment 84399 View attachment 84400 View attachment 84401 View attachment 84402 View attachment 84403 View attachment 84404 View attachment 84405
Click to expand...
That first pic is THE pic. Pretty cool.
 
I liked the 2nd and 3rd photos from the wing cam. Nice shots that kinda say it all.
 
Photo number 4, as you're turning off 12R onto D then W, that large hangar closest to you, I used to work out of there.
 
Sinistar said:
Wow, your landing fee was only $16! And was only a year ago. Why the hell is MSP's fee for a Skylane $80.

Back to your bill....ouch! Surprised you bought so much fuel.
Click to expand...
Not many options around IAD lol. It was IMC until I got to 1A6. Topped off there.
 
champ driver said:
Photo number 4, as you're turning off 12R onto D then W, that large hangar closest to you, I used to work out of there.
Click to expand...
Cool...is that Northwest (Delta) hangar?

That's a interesting intersection as you can see Terminal 2 and all the Southwest and Sun Country planes.

Question for you...do you know what the red circles with 27 in them mean? Also they straddle what looks more like a movement area line? In the 5th picture.
 
Sinistar said:
Cool...is that Northwest (Delta) hangar?

That's a interesting intersection as you can see Terminal 2 and all the Southwest and Sun Country planes.

Question for you...do you know what the red circles with 27 in them mean? Also they straddle what looks more like a movement area line? In the 5th picture.
Click to expand...

No, those hangars are a part of Signature and have corporate companies located in them. In this case it's companies like Cargil, Target, Super Value, General Mills.

The pink circles are describing in the AIM as,
Geographic Position Markings. These markings are located at points along low visibility taxi routes designated in the airport's Surface Movement Guidance Control System (SMGCS) plan. They are used to identify the location of taxiing aircraft during low visibility operations. Low visibility operations are those that occur when the runway visible range (RVR) is below 1200 feet(360m). They are positioned to the left of the taxiway centerline in the direction of taxiing. (See FIG 2-3-12.) The geographic position marking is a circle comprised of an outer black ring contiguous to a white ring with a pink circle in the middle. When installed on asphalt or other dark-colored pavements, the white ring and the black ring are reversed, i.e., the white ring becomes the outer ring and the black ring becomes the inner ring. It is designated with either a number or a number and letter. The number corresponds to the consecutive position of the marking on the route
 
Last edited:
Sinistar said:
The FBO experience was great....and expensive. Almost $150! They waived the $60 landing fee with $60 of fuel but the rest was fees. The landing fee for the 182 was over $70! When I had called last fall it was just $28. So I'm thinking I was charged wrong. Gonna check on that tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Sounds right to me. When I called and asked last fall, your receipt is pretty much exactly what they told me.
 
Martin Pauly said:
True. In all my flying, I have never seen anything come close to the outrageous fees at Boston Logan.

- Martin
Click to expand...

When i flew in BED near BOS class Bravo airspace.... It was a bit more reasonable... 75.00 landing fee... 20.00 ramp fee... 15.00 signature FBO fee if you buy fuel... 50.00 if you don't
Then about 3 weeks later i got a bill from The city of bedford in the mail... for a runway usage fee... 10.00... you pay online.
I can't figure out how they found my mailing address... probably looked up my tail number on flight aware or something... nickel and dime me to death lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top