LORAN likely to make a comeback

Loran is before my time, but I remember my dad mentioning that Decca was more accurate than Loran.

Any truth to that, and it so, why not go with Decca?
 
"Flying the beam" anybody? :cool:

I think I still have some Decca vinyl in boxes in my basement.
Definitely better than listening to LORAN. ;)

And why do I have the feeling Garmin will be making another new product announcement on this? Just to get the rest of our money.
 
deonb said:
Loran is before my time, but I remember my dad mentioning that Decca was more accurate than Loran.

Any truth to that, and it so, why not go with Decca?
Click to expand...

I believe the problem with Decca was it was patented by a British company, who liked to sue for royalties, so governments just built similar but different alternates.

U.S.G. still paid out millions later for patent infringement, but like most big government projects, they just built what they wanted and paid very little to Decca vs what Decca would have gotten in royalties for using their system.

Navy wanted LORAN, and it was getting it, no matter who came up with the idea, or who wanted money for it.

That's my recollection of it, anyway.
 
Lol. And the FAA just decided that AMT schools no longer had to teach outdated navigation systems such as LORAN.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Lol. And the FAA just decided that AMT schools no longer had to teach outdated navigation systems such as LORAN.
Click to expand...

Today loran will just be another chip in an integrated RNAV (gps/loran/glonass) receiver and the box and database will figure it all out. Won't operate any differently and still give you the magenta line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
teejayevans said:
Can you jam Loran as well?
Click to expand...
Any radio can be jammed. How much power do you have? GPS is vulnerable because it is a low power system. LORAN uses higher power signals so it is more challenging for jamming and spoofing.
 
Clark1961 said:
Any radio can be jammed. How much power do you have? GPS is vulnerable because it is a low power system. LORAN uses higher power signals so it is more challenging for jamming and spoofing.
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but it only took two broken bonding straps to kill LORAN on the King Air I used to fly.
 
Hey, bring back Omega. We knew when someone ahead of us was an Omega bird in the North Atlantic or Pacific. Their contrails looked like S turns. Got you there though.

Can't jam a sectional and a rhumb line.
 
MD11Pilot said:
Hey, bring back Omega. We knew when someone ahead of us was an Omega bird in the North Atlantic or Pacific. Their contrails looked like S turns. Got you there though.

Can't jam a sectional and a rhumb line.
Click to expand...
There was a lot of DR involved when I flew Omega. ;)
 
What a damn good idea. Backup to satellites that can break or be shot down.
 
MD11Pilot said:
Hey, bring back Omega. We knew when someone ahead of us was an Omega bird in the North Atlantic or Pacific. Their contrails looked like S turns. Got you there though.

Can't jam a sectional and a rhumb line.
Click to expand...
Paid by the hour so s turns are a good idea.
 
Will be interesting to see how they solve the altitude issue.
I wonder why they do not go further, and plan on using all three GPS satellites, US, EU, and Russian. It is three separate frequencies.

Tim
 
Clark1961 said:
So you logic is that if nav equipment breaks it is easy to jam. Got it. I don't believe it is good logic but I certainly understand what you are saying.
Click to expand...
No, the NAV equipment was fine...but a little static electricity (didn't even require precip) made the signal unusable. Seems to me a little static electricity is pretty easy to duplicate.
 
Don't see the military modifying aircraft anytime soon. Even before GPS, outside of transports very few aircraft used LORAN.
 
Last edited:
MauleSkinner said:
No, the NAV equipment was fine...but a little static electricity (didn't even require precip) made the signal unusable. Seems to me a little static electricity is pretty easy to duplicate.
Click to expand...

After a small bit of research, it seems to me that eLoran is not likely to be "jammed" with a little static electricity. Consider that it uses an "all in view" approach unlike old-school LORAN, and also consider that it would be able to take advantage of sophisticated signal processing not available 30 years ago.

Perhaps it is unfortunate that the new technology has a moniker which causes individuals to equate it to the much older tech. It really does appear to be a significant improvement. I wonder if it would be a better backup system to GPS than the VOR network scheme (except for, of course, the equipment refit).
 
MauleSkinner said:
No, the NAV equipment was fine...but a little static electricity (didn't even require precip) made the signal unusable. Seems to me a little static electricity is pretty easy to duplicate.
Click to expand...
So the broken bonding strap means the equipment somehow isn't broken. Got it.
 
Clark1961 said:
So the broken bonding strap means the equipment somehow isn't broken. Got it.
Click to expand...
Most people don't consider the airframe to be NAV equipment.

But f you really want to continue to play stupid, I've never had LORAN work in precip. If you want to consider that an equipment failure, feel free.
 
Something more to waste money and resources on because of the threat of terrorism. It's to bad the human race can't just get along and play nice.

On another note all I need to do is push the loran back into the mount and lock it down. My Baby Beech came with a loran and I simply removed the unit, tray, antenna are still there. Been meaning to remove the whole lot to make space for something else and clean things up, other things always seem to take precedence. 20+ years later it's still there......:rolleyes:
 
Velocity173 said:
Don't see the military modifying aircraft anytime soon. Even before GPS, outside of transports very few aircraft used LORAN.
Click to expand...
We had it in the F-4's back when I was flying. I think all military aircraft had it installed.
 
F-4, P-3...Navy guys.
 
Ahem.
I was Air Force.
Actually if it wasn't for gravity or the guys flying in circles at 35,000 ft, we couldn't find the ground or our home fields. :D
 
denverpilot said:
eLORAN passed the House in the DHS budget due to GPS jamming concerns.

We'll see if it survives the Senate.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ke-global-return-as-gps-backup-because-cyber/
Click to expand...

Nate,

While I'm not familiar with progress made by LORAN over the years I recall LORAN back in the nineties. We had one plane that told us which corner of the hangar it was in even tough the distance was small. I am of the opinion LORAN should be brought back to life. Should the excrement hit the air distribution system it is almost a guarantee GPS will either be turned off or otherwise rendered useless. A backup would be useful in that situation.
 
Someone shutting down GPS is probably the worst reason for the LORAN boondoggle. Both would be in the hands of the US Military. You think if they turn off (or restrict access to) GPS, they'd leave public LORAM up?

The one good thing about using LORAN is it trades one sort of interference vulnerability for another. Hopefully, a given receiver wouldn't suffer from both at the same time. eLoran also gives some penetration places where GPS fails.
 
flyingron said:
Someone shutting down GPS is probably the worst reason for the LORAN boondoggle. Both would be in the hands of the US Military. You think if they turn off (or restrict access to) GPS, they'd leave public LORAM up?
Click to expand...

I don't think "turning it off" is the concern. Rather "jamming it", or "taking it out with an ASM missile".
 
Shepherd said:
We had it in the F-4's back when I was flying. I think all military aircraft had it installed.
Click to expand...

While popular in Vietnam, not all military aircraft were equipped. A total of 72 F-4Ds were. But yeah, plenty of C-130,C-141,P-3, etc and even A-7, F-4 and F-105 types had it. I was referring to the newer military aircraft.
 
So what will the new receivers cost? If it's something basic without a large display maybe $2-5k and if they're full blown navigators then what... $5-10k?

I may be off but, especially if you already have GPS who would drop a significant amount of money to add this to their panel?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top