Looong XC Concerns

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Erik

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Erik
Hi! I'm pretty new here.

I'm a 186 hours TT PPL+IFR, just started training for my commercial but need quite some hours to go. I'm considering taking a long cross country from here in Chicago to southern Florida in my flight club 182 where my parents have a place and returning home. I think I'd get about 20 or so hours when it's said and done and I feel like it would be an awesome learning experience in flight planning, weather interpretation and avoidance, ATC comms, dealing with FBOs, etc. Longest XC I've taken to date was about 350nm with my girlfriend. I'd love to take this on with her but feel like I should be taking a more experienced pilot than I along with me, not because I doubt my experience and skills, but because it feels a little like the unknown to fly that far.

Looking for any and all experience stories from your first [actual] long cross country, any lessons learned, how far did you go, who did you take, did your weather cooperate, did your planned route get a wrench thrown in it.

edit: airport recommendations in Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Florida?
 
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I’d say do it. Use the same care and caution as short flights and it’s the same thing. A 1200 mile trip is the same as a 300 mile trip just do it 4 times.

she just needs to understand and be cool with the adventure of GA... that if Wx pops up ya might be sleeping at a motel 6 ya didn’t plan on or maybe even an fbo couch in a pinch. Bring some snacks n heavy snacks in event food isn't right next door to where ya end up...

be mindful of different flying weather conditions you may encounter due to coasts or mountains... I just got back from doing MI to FL in a Cessna 140. I have 400 or so hours I think and I’ve done MI to Idaho twice, Texas to MI one way once and now Florida- so didn’t start taking those trips with much more time if any than you and strictly VFR.

Be ready to be flexible- we got to the smokies and the ceilings that would have allowed us over them as predicted didn’t happen so we just circumnavigated them. So your planned route may change and that’s ok.

besides for dealing with the Rockies or crazy high DA in the west there’s nothing different about landing a plane in Georgia as there is Illinois or Michigan or Maine...

clear prop brother!
 
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There are too may open items to really comment:
- What is the route (Where is "from here")?
- What equipment is in the 182?
- What equipment do you bring along?
- When are you making the trip?
- Are you wanting to use this trip to meet the 250nm commercial cross country requirement?
- What is your time frame?
 
Welcome to PoA!

A long cross country is just a bunch of short cross countries strung together.
The planning process is the same, there's just a lot more of it to do.
No reason you couldn't or shouldn't do it if you and the GF have the time, and assuming the 182 is a plane you are already well familiar with.
Suggest you limit to something like 5-6 hours max flight time each day. As others have said be flexible as weathers always a factor, be open to a bit of an adventure. Don't make commitments that you feel pressed for time to have to meet.

Have fun!
And some pictures of the trip must be posted here on PoA...it's a mandatory rule around this joint. ;)
 
GRG55 said:
Welcome to PoA!

A long cross country is just a bunch of short cross countries strung together.
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Please don't listen to this, as it is patent nonsense. Some things to think about. What is your range vs the aircraft's range? i.e. are you going to be more in need of bio breaks than gas breaks? If so, plan them, preferably in places where you might find a good meal or some fun. Are you ready to have some flexibility coming and going? Just because you have the IR doesn't mean every day is a good flying day. Be ready to bail and stay on the ground any day, and don't push it on either side. You'll have sensational gethereitis coming home, try and make certain you've no solid commitments to get back to. You could wind up flying in stuff you shouldn't. That's where NTSB statistics come from. if in doubt think about how it would read in the NTSB report.
 
TimRF79 said:
There are too may open items to really comment:
- What is the route (Where is "from here")?
- What equipment is in the 182?
- What equipment do you bring along?
- When are you making the trip?
- Are you wanting to use this trip to meet the 250nm commercial cross country requirement?
- What is your time frame?
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Chicago, KDPA

Dual G5’s (DG and attitude), GTN650 WAAS, 2-axis AP with coupled approaches, flight stream 210 for ADS-B WX and traffic with iPad connectivity with ForeFlight performance+, dual comms plus handheld backup with VOR nav

not to meet the XC requirement, just to build hours and make them meaningful, insightful, and fun

April or may, and I have a lot of flexibility in my schedule where I don’t have to snipe days as “must go” (which of course doesn’t exist but just to say I don’t have that external pressure)
 
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As has been said, a long cross country is a series of shorter cross countries.

Dismantle the "get there itis" machinery and do it. You'll learn things (at least that you CAN do this even if nothing else pops up).

To be fair, I'm a 300+ hour PP, IR that's never flown out of Florida but I'm not intimidated by it, and I expect to correct that soon...
 
One comment--go solo. I dearly love my spouse, but hour after hour of droning slow-motion flight trapped in a tin can for day after day? Think about it.

I have taken two long cross-countries. The first from New Orleans to Seattle included a copilot. The second a 6600 nm solo circuit from Seattle to S.CA to AZ east to Knoxville, south to S.FL, along the gulf, across TX, NM, and back to S.CA and up the coast home. Learned a ton. Here are the flight logs. You may find them useful (the websites were hand-coded, a bit primitive, but relay the information with lots of photos):

http://www.demonick.com/flying/flying.logs.NEW-S43.html
http://www.demonick.com/flying/S43-DKX-SUA-S43/index.html
 
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Honestly, I don't think you need to take another pilot with you. At around that same time I flew a PA28 from Michigan out to the Pacific and back. Crossed the Rockies twice, Sierras, Grand Canyon, etc... flying from Chicago to Florida you don't even have to get above 5500' - maybe even 3500'. All you really have to do it watch for fronts and weather since terrain isn't an issue, and maybe some airmass T-storms, which are easy enough when going VFR.
 
EdFred said:
Actually don't listen to THIS. Seriously, the original comment about a big XC for all intents and purposes being small XC's put together is spot on.
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B.S. Longer cross countries have all sorts of issues not found in shorter ones. Terrain, local weather patterns and fuel management all come quickly to mind. There are more.
 
Erik said:
....not to meet the XC requirement, just to build hours and make them meaningful, insightful, and fun...
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imagine that, getting your ppl, instrument, etc...and actually putting them to good use instead of going ppl-instrument-comm-cfi without ever leaving the pattern other than for required xc's like many new cfi's I see. drives me insane. BUT, you said you already took a 350nm xc so you're one step ahead of those guys. you got a license to fly, go fly and learn a heck of a lot more than just making a square pattern. don't take another pilot (well, do or don't, doesn't matter) but you'll learn a lot more making a trip like this on your own. me thinks.
 
I say, go for it. I love the long cross country trips. I did a couple with less than 200 hrs in my logbook that were 5+ hrs one direction. The main thing that I was always able to plan with was to make sure I had extra time. Don't ever make one of these trips where you have to be somewhere by a certain time. If that's the case, always have a backup plan. My first really long trip was about 20 years ago from Oshkosh, WI to Tulsa, OK in January. The trip down was great and I had planned to stay for 3 days then return. Unfortunately, the weather came through earlier than expected and I was stuck in Tulsa for four extra days due to freezing rain and ice. In total, my planned 4 day trip turned into nearly 10 days. Even commercial flights were cancelled for several days. Always have extra time.
 
Don't listen to anyone, especially me.

Take the girlfriend if you really want to test the relationship.

Don't count on making the trip as planned. Stuff happens. How will said girlfriend react?
 
Other than the time and potential weather it should be no big deal. You're east of the Rockies. The Appalachians are no big deal, and you could easily avoid them as you'd just barely go over the southwest end of them.

With an instrument rating and the plane's avionics you should be able to do this trip fine. It's just a long time in a small plane, but other than that not a big deal. April is a good time to fly this. Although weather being fickle you could deal with cold/ice in Illinois and thunderstorms in Florida and the southeast, all in one trip.

It is in many ways just a series of shorter XC flights. The major difference is that you are going farther, so the weather is much more likely to change than it would on a shorter trip.
 
steingar said:
Please don't listen to this, as it is patent nonsense.
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No, it’s not.

Rather than get overwhelmed by the total length of the trip, focus on each leg as a stand-alone, no different from the shorter trips you’ve taken. Certainly you’ll be looking at weather farther out, but only as it pertains to future legs. Those legs may need to be modified for that weather, but each leg is still an entity unto itself.

In fact, I encourage my student to break down even shorter trips. Flying from Miami, FL to Savannah, let’s say, I’d like them to think...”Can I safely make Palm Beach?” Then, “Can I safely make Melbourne?” Then, “Can I safely make Jacksonville?” and so on. And to always have a Plan B if any of those waypoints become problematic.

IOW, keep the big picture in the back of your mind, but focus on whatever leg you’re on - and always have an “out”.
 
steingar said:
B.S. Longer cross countries have all sorts of issues not found in shorter ones. Terrain, local weather patterns and fuel management all come quickly to mind. There are more.
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Let's see, we have multiple CFI's saying the opposite of your stance. You have hardly any long cross country experience (Columbus to OSH is not a long XC) How about you leave this to people with the actual experience and ratings to offer actual helpful advice and know what they are talking about.
 
Erik said:
Chicago, KDPA

Dual G5’s (DG and attitude), GTN650 WAAS, 2-axis AP with coupled approaches, flight stream 210 for ADS-B WX and traffic, dual comms plus handheld backup with VOR nav

not to meet the XC requirement, just to build hours and make them meaningful, insightful, and fun

April or may, and I have a lot of flexibility in my schedule where I don’t have to snipe days as “must go” (which of course doesn’t exist but just to say I don’t have that external pressure)
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You have solid equipment to stay ahead of weather and find an "out" quickly if needed.
Would recommend and iPad with FF or GarminPilot to take along and a GDL5x (or Stratus). Just in case the 210 fails. (But then again I like having 3 backups...).

I found long xcountries alone rather boring... They are more fun with another aviator, as you can help each other out (split comms, etc...) and talk aviation for hours (without significant others eyes glazing over).

For me (~200 hrs, PPL, IR (but no actual IMC time)) I found that doing thorough wx analysis before a long flight is the key to having a pleasant flight.
 
Erik said:
Chicago, KDPA

Dual G5’s (DG and attitude), GTN650 WAAS, 2-axis AP with coupled approaches, flight stream 210 for ADS-B WX and traffic, dual comms plus handheld backup with VOR nav

not to meet the XC requirement, just to build hours and make them meaningful, insightful, and fun

April or may, and I have a lot of flexibility in my schedule where I don’t have to snipe days as “must go” (which of course doesn’t exist but just to say I don’t have that external pressure)
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My wife and I do this from ARR to GA/FL regularly. It’s a fairly easy trip with no real terrain issues and lots of good divert airports all along the way. Just don’t push weather and give some slop in your schedule so there’s no pressure. Have fun!
 
When I was at about 270 hours in 2003, I had a few weeks off and did the following in my 182RG:

  • DPA with a fuel stop in Batavia, NY to Portsmouth, NH. Hung out with an old coworker for a couple days
  • Portsmouth to Wilmington, DE and spent a day with my Niece.
  • Wilmington to Ocean City, MD for fuel and then to Winchester, VA for a couple of days with a childhood friend.
  • Winchester to Lawrenceville, GA and spent a day with a co-worker.
  • Lawrenceville to Lakeland, FL and spent a day with a former employer.
  • Lakeland to Mobile and spent a day with my brother.
  • Mobile to Houston and spent two days at an upset recovery course.
  • Houston to Dallas and spent a day with another co-worker.
  • Dallas to Ft Leonard Wood, MO for fuel and then back to DPA.

12 days, about 25 hours total. Longest leg was 4.0 hours. Had to get an oil change in Winchester because it was due. Weather worked out perfectly. Didn't have to delay a single flight. For some reason, I didn't log the time at the upset course in the T-34.
 
We fly from Tampa to Osh, just over 1000nm, every year. We tend to make it with one gas stop, roughly half way. That works out perfect for us as bladder range is significantly less than fuel range so I routinely plan for 3-3.5 hour legs unless the destination can be made with IFR reserves and alternate in 4 hours. So my advice is plan to what makes you and your pax comfortable.

When planning I look at the weather for the whole route and each leg separately. You need to be prepared to RON at your stops and also to deviate if necessary Enroute— had to do both on various trips around the country. The most important tool you need to not forget to pack is a credit card.
 
I started making trips like this with less hours than you and VFR only. You’ve got the training you need now learn by doing.

My advice on these sorts of trips is to be flexible. If you’re not sure on the weather on he next leg plan your fuel stops at a larger area where you’re likely to be able to get transport/lodging if you need to stay overnight. If weather looks bad ahead land and wait. You have ADS-B in so you should be able to check ahead while in the air. Most FBOs seem to be able to get rental cars if you book a day or two ahead.

Also for southern FL, the keys are probably one of the coolest GA destinations you can go to. Marathon and Key West are great GA airports. It’s not a difficult trip at all, follow the island chain or go direct. In the air you can pretty much see the islands from the mainland. The view is amazing, best way to do it is go VFR and cruise over the water, putting the mainland off your wingtip. There will be a scattered layer around 1500-2500’ every day but you can fly under it, no terrain over the water! They also have scattered storms or showers in the forecast almost daily. Go in the morning and check the radar, the forecasted “storms” will usually be a non issue, they’re almost always tiny little rain clouds you can easily fly around visually. I’m talking like 1-2mi diameter mini showers. On the ground you’ll see them about every other day, it will rain for a minute or two then be nice all day.

Another good area is Titusville, KTIX. That’s where NASA is, you can overfly the space shuttle landing strip most days just just the restricted areas and ask a controller.

Speaking of ATC, don’t sweat it just talk to them. They really aren’t out to get you and across most of that route they usually aren’t to busy(FL likely will be). I make mistakes on the radio all the time, correct yourself as needed and move on. Very rare for them to get upset and believe me there have been dumber people than you on the radio.

Would be happy to answer any specific questions, but I say do it!
 
I don't have a whole lot of solo long XCs because Margy is usually along. My usual solo route is CJR-NC26 (or HKY) which is about 15 miles too short. Just flew that one twice this week. I have flown solo back from Aurora, NE to NC26, 860 miles.
 
I took off from Bmi to Orlando as a 100hr private pilot. I don't know how smart it was, but I learned a lot and had a lot of fun. It's really a pretty easy flight. Having your IR and a 350 mile trip under your belt, you far ahead of where I was.

There biggest thing I learned was to be flexible. Trying to keep to a schedule is what gets you in trouble. I don't see any reason for you not to do it. Only one way to gain experience.
 
GRG55 said:
A long cross country is just a bunch of short cross countries strung together.
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True, dat.

Unless you have a plane that can fly the entire distance, non stop, it's just a bunch of short, maybe medium, flights.
I seriously doubt you and your girl friend can fly a 1,000 mile trip non stop, in a C182.I know I can't.
2.5 hours and I need a catheter and a hole in the floor for the other end of the hose. But I'm a geezer so maybe you can do better.
Plan each leg, plan lots of "just in case" alternate airports.
Do a couple 200 mile flights out and back landing at different airports. Different airports are the scary part for a lot of lower hour pilots. It's good practice, and will build up your confidence.
 
Erik said:
...Longest XC I've taken to date was about 350nm with my girlfriend....
Looking for any and all experience stories from your first [actual] long cross country...
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Twist: fly her commercial down/back and use the days in FL to do some coastal flightseeing/burger runs. Takes a whole lot of pressure off you to meet someone else’s schedule.
 
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steingar said:
B.S. Longer cross countries have all sorts of issues not found in shorter ones. Terrain, local weather patterns and fuel management all come quickly to mind. There are more.
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Could not disagree with you more.

Terrain, local weather and fuel management are just some of the factors I'd be considering even on 30 nm hop over the local ridge for a $100 Saturday morning brunch on the other side.

Every fuel or bladder stop on a long cross country is the end of a short cross country, and the beginning of the next short cross country. Absolutely no reason to feel overwhelmed by a long distance journey. Just break it down into a series of "short cross countries" and plan each one individually and rigorously, including updates on the weather and NOTAMS at each stop.

That works regardless of whether the stop is for an hour or overnight.
 
Pro pointers:
Be flexible, let weather dictate your route and schedule.
Land at airports with on site maintenance, so if you have an issue you don’t have to try to track down a mobile AP.
Satellite imagery is good for finding where the self serve pumps are, the FBO parking, etc.
Fly early when weather is generally more stable. Give you extra time to fly to an alternate if needed.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Be flexible, let weather dictate your route and schedule.
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This would be what I'd emphasize. I've flown all over the US and a fair amount of Canada and have been able to do about 99% of it VFR. A little flexibility on departure time and route will go a long way to having a successful trip. Even when you have more sophisticated, all weather equipment at your disposal this is true. I'm headed from Iowa to Florida and back this weekend in a pressurized and deiced airplane and we elected to leave about 12 hours earlier than originally planned, just so the trip would be more pleasant.

I really don't see any reason an instrument rated 180 hour pilot shouldn't be able to do this kind of trip alone. If there is uncertainty, ask a more seasoned pilot to review your flight planning. I recently had a fellow CFI with 1000+ hours ask me for some planning tips for his first trip out west. He did a good job on the planning and had a great trip that worked out exactly like he wanted it to.
 
Datadriver said:
Take her. If she doesn't enjoy it - dump her or give up flying.
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give up flying? Are you nuts! Lol. I agree with your post up until the word “or”.

Heck I made it part of dating criteria and now have a true copilot she’s fallen in love w aviation and doesn’t want a license but wants to learn the basics and landing...

2685C031-6180-40C0-BA18-764C9A66005E.jpeg
MI to FL in a 1947 Cessna 140 :)
 
Don't take another pilot. You will learn more if you feel like it's all you.

Build plenty of slack into your schedule so that you aren't under any pressure to keep your schedule. This will allow you to stop for the night early if you start feeling fatigue from the trip.

File and fly IFR as much as possible on the trip. This keeps you in 'the system', which is great experience, and it makes dealing with the different airspace along the way nearly invisible to you.

Plan a few stops for local sightseeing. Not only does that give you shorter travel days but you'll get to see a lot more of what's inbetween Chicago and Florida.

You will be a different, better, and more confident pilot when you return home.
 
steingar said:
B.S. Longer cross countries have all sorts of issues not found in shorter ones. Terrain, local weather patterns and fuel management all come quickly to mind. There are more.
Click to expand...

certainly more issues can come up but none that anyone with basic piloting skills shouldn’t be able to handle. Get there itis can happen on short trips... just because the temptation is there doesn’t mean one avoid the flight- we must all learn how to not succumb to it. Get there itis is as likely to tempt him at 600 hours as 200...

There’s really only one way to get good at long trips- do em....

I guess I must ask when do you feel one should begin to venture beyond one tank of gas?
 
Btw chasing burgers only gets boring and U’ll be one one of those guys whom say “yea I flew a bit for a few years...”. Instead of the old guy who’s done it all...

That’s why ya gotta go- just wisely and prudently.
 
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