Looking for opinions and options for a light twin comparison - 310Q, BE55/58 or Seneca?

[k9medic]

Since I acquired the 421C with a couple of partners, my 310Q has flow a bit less this past quarter. I still have the 310Q (that I own outright) for sale but while doing some brain storming with the partners, I mentioned adding my 310Q to the partnership to provide a slightly more economical way to fly when we only have one or two people going or if we just needed to haul stuff.

Everybody agreed that a second smaller aircraft would be a great idea. 2 of the partners (3 including myself) are fine with keeping the 310 but one partner is dead against the 310. Given that, we are trying to come up with comparable aircraft as far as speed and useful load go.

The biggest issue the one partner has with the 310 is the loading door. The 310Q has the large door but when compared to the BE58 or the Seneca series, it's hard to get larger items in the plane.

The needs are as follows:
1. Priced under $150,000
2. 165kts TAS minimum
3. Minimum 4 hours of fuel
4. At least 1150 lb useful load with 4 hours of fuel on board


The 310Q hits all of these (and I have one) but the one partner again does not want to use it.

 

[RussR]

This doesn't really answer your question, but if the 310 is the right choice for 3 of the 4 of you, and since you already have one, why not just create a second partnership with the 310 for the 3 of you?

 

[k9medic]

We have thought about this as well but want to be able to include all of the partners for the fun cost sharing experience that having 2 planes brings.

Since I had a Cherokee 6, I like the idea of a Seneca but I am not sure it hit's the needs. Anybody have real world specs on a Seneca 2?

 

[Skip Miller]

We have thought about this as well but want to be able to include all of the partners for the fun cost sharing experience that having 2 planes brings.

Since I had a Cherokee 6, I like the idea of a Seneca but I am not sure it hit's the needs. Anybody have real world specs on a Seneca 2?

I believe Dr. Bruce Chien has a
Seneca 2. @bbchien -Skip

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Seneca engines are pretty lackluster Continental TSIO360's, I never found they really have enough power to get the job done.

My argument to your partner regarding getting large items in the 310 is to then just take the 421 since he also has access to that.

 

[MountainDude]

Get rid of the unreasonable partner and add the 310 to your partnership. Boom.

 

[schmookeeg]

The 150k CapEx is going to limit you to some real lackluster planes in the 58 series. I'd fix the partner or abandon the idea before trying to switch to a Be58 for that money. And I am a Beech snob.

 

[iamtheari]

A Seneca would indeed be easier to load stuff into. The door is bigger and it sits lower. I don’t know about range or useful load, but I know someone who flies between TX and ND year-round in his Seneca and loves it. I’d personally rather invest in having the nicest 421 on the block than try to maintain two twins for a small partnership. The cost of annual inspections, insurance, and hangar space on the second plane will probably cover the marginal difference in using the 421 for the same trips.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

I’d personally rather invest in having the nicest 421 on the block than try to maintain two twins for a small partnership. The cost of annual inspections, insurance, and hangar space on the second plane will probably cover the marginal difference in using the 421 for the same trips.

I disagree. With more planes you get more dispatch availability. With complex twins like a 421 you can expect significant maintenance downtime from long annuals, to avionics to engine and prop maintenance. Adding another plane into the fleet will allow for at least 1 plane to be available to the group more often. Two is one and one is none.

 

[schmookeeg]

The more I think about this, the more puzzled I am by the partner's requirement. What large item fits nicely in the 421 but not in the 310?

 

[iamtheari]

I disagree. With more planes you get more dispatch availability. With complex twins like a 421 you can expect significant maintenance downtime from long annuals, to avionics to engine and prop maintenance. Adding another plane into the fleet will allow for at least 1 plane to be available to the group more often. Two is one and one is none.

If dispatch availability is a mission parameter, then I agree. But if the mission parameter is “a slightly more economical way to fly when we only have one or two people going or if we just needed to haul stuff” then it would take a good, sharp pencil to determine if owning a second twin is “slightly more economical” than just taking the 421 for those trips.

The more I think about this, the more puzzled I am by the partner's requirement. What large item fits nicely in the 421 but not in the 310?

Compared with a 310Q, the 421 has nose baggage (and lots of it in that giant beak) and an airstair door, either of which might make the difference in getting a bulky item into the plane. It depends on the item itself. If you can figure out how to get a king-size mattress into a Cessna 310, though, please send me a PM. That one has me stumped at the moment.

 

[k9medic]

We are also comparing operating costs too.

The fuel burn alone on the 421 is about 20 gallons more per hour.

 

[Fracpilot]

Since I acquired the 421C with a couple of partners, my 310Q has flow a bit less this past quarter. I still have the 310Q (that I own outright) for sale but while doing some brain storming with the partners, I mentioned adding my 310Q to the partnership to provide a slightly more economical way to fly when we only have one or two people going or if we just needed to haul stuff.

Everybody agreed that a second smaller aircraft would be a great idea. 2 of the partners (3 including myself) are fine with keeping the 310 but one partner is dead against the 310. Given that, we are trying to come up with comparable aircraft as far as speed and useful load go.

The biggest issue the one partner has with the 310 is the loading door. The 310Q has the large door but when compared to the BE58 or the Seneca series, it's hard to get larger items in the plane.

The needs are as follows:
1. Priced under $150,000
2. 165kts TAS minimum
3. Minimum 4 hours of fuel
4. At least 1150 lb useful load with 4 hours of fuel on board


The 310Q hits all of these (and I have one) but the one partner again does not want to use it.

You have the perfect situation, you know the airplane, and it’s paid off. You just don’t have the perfect 3rd partner for it.

Create 2 separate partnerships, one for the 421 and one for the 310. Go find the right partner for the 310 since you have the plane. The partner is easier to find than selling the 310 and searching for a new plane that can come with a lot more baggage than the partner.

I removed seats 5-6 from my 310 and that thing has a ton of room in it. The door is smaller than the B58, but not by a whole lot. I can still fit large bags and folded e-bikes into the 310. I’ve put a ton of work into my 310 to get it the way I want it for me.

I found the right partner and now we are seeking a third. We have found it’s just easier to look for the right person when we already know we have the right airplane.