Looking for Info on what plane to buy

Still here but only for a moment....sounds like you are only approaching but have not fully grasped the enormity of what you want to do. At the risk of being blunt you are peering into a world where you better be able to perform like an NFL or NBA player. You might have been all state in high school or a good college level player but you are about to jump in way over your head. Unless you have experienced true high performance around 300K and 3,000 fpm climb/descent, and dead on nav accuracy you are a bleeder jumping into a pool of hungry sharks. My first several months in the right seat of the Beechcraft 1900D was awesome and amazing. It also made me realize how much I had to learn and left a deep felt appreciation for those who took the time to invest in a fellow aviator.

Before asking can I you better already know should you
 
James_Dean said:
You haven't paid for insurance, hangar, maintenance, or engine/prop reserves.
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Insurance, that's rich. According to the original post, the plan is do 250 hours in rental 172's and then buy an pressurized twin. Insurance costs will be $0. I doubt there's an insurance company on the planet that's going to bind coverage in a pressurized twin with a 250 hour 172 pilot.
 
jonvcaples said:
Still here but only for a moment....sounds like you are only approaching but have not fully grasped the enormity of what you want to do. At the risk of being blunt you are peering into a world where you better be able to perform like an NFL or NBA player. You might have been all state in high school or a good college level player but you are about to jump in way over your head. Unless you have experienced true high performance around 300K and 3,000 fpm climb/descent, and dead on nav accuracy you are a bleeder jumping into a pool of hungry sharks. My first several months in the right seat of the Beechcraft 1900D was awesome and amazing. It also made me realize how much I had to learn and left a deep felt appreciation for those who took the time to invest in a fellow aviator.

Before asking can I you better already know should you
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I think u may be right. I think it's probably best to back down a bit and bite off something a little easier to chew. I might end up having to make a stop or two for fuel but a smaller less complicated and less expensive plane is probably going to be the way to go.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Insurance, that's rich. According to the original post, the plan is do 250 hours in rental 172's and then buy an pressurized twin. Insurance costs will be $0. I doubt there's an insurance company on the planet that's going to bind coverage in a pressurized twin with a 250 hour 172 pilot.
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I may not have clarified myself completely I'm not planning on buying this particular plane until I have the necessary experience and qualifications to do so. The last thing I want to do is walk into an insurance agency and walk right back out trailing laughter.
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
I may not have clarified myself completely I'm not planning on buying this particular plane until I have the necessary experience and qualifications to do so. The last thing I want to do is walk into an insurance agency and walk right back out trailing laughter.
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This is not a get up and go and next week the plane is mine. It's gonna take years for the necessary hours, requirements, endorsements and so on. I understand completely that it's not just the kind of plane I can just step into any given Sunday. I simply meant I would like to begin training and complete my first endorsements and so on in a 172. U can't jump the ladder rungs; it's a one step at a time deal.
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
Eeek. Good thing is whatever I decide to buy will definitely get regular use. Does recurrent training have to be done with an instructor or is it based on whether you have an appropriate amount of hours in thaat year
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Initial and recurrent are with a sim company or someone approved by your insurance company. You may have to travel to them or they may come to you (increasing costs for travel and lodging).

I got my multi in my 310 and have never been required to do an additional training. I have an interest in a Cessna 400 (originally the Columbia) and a couple of times insurance has mentioned recurrent and even mentioned requiring an annual IPC in the plane. So far it has not been required. It is very similar speed wise to the 310 and with the glass cockpit is probably easier to fly so I am not sure why they have mentioned it. My partner is not Instrument rated and that may be part of the reason.
 
Apart from that, is it not possible to train in a plane that you yourself own rather than say a leased twin? If I'm looking for hours and experience and the necessary endorsements, would it not be better to train in my own plane?
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
Apart from that, is it not possible to train in a plane that you yourself own rather than say a leased twin? If I'm looking for hours and experience and the necessary endorsements, would it not be better to train in my own plane?
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I think training in you own plane makes a ton of sense for a lot of reasons, I think you are on the right track when you think about stepping up slowly. Get you private and then your Instrument, fly some cross county trips and then add the multi and start with a 310/Barron/Aztec.
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
This is not a get up and go and next week the plane is mine. It's gonna take years for the necessary hours, requirements, endorsements and so on. I understand completely that it's not the kind of plane I can just step into any given Sunday. I simply meant I would like to begin training and complete my first endorsements and so on in a 172. U can't jump the ladder rungs; it's a one step at a time deal.
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Well that sounds a little more sensible. But just like its not a good idea to jump from piloting a 172 right to pressurized twin, I think most would say its also not a good idea to jump from never owning any airplane right to owning a 40 year old pressurized twin. Owning an airplane requires skills that need to be learned. You learn by trial and error. When its a 40 year old twin, the errors can get expensive.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Well that sounds a little more sensible. But just like its not a good idea to jump from piloting a 172 right to pressurized twin, I think most would say its also not a good idea to jump from never owning any airplane right to owning a 40 year old pressurized twin. Owning an airplane requires skills that need to be learned. You learn by trial and error. When its a 40 year old twin, the errors can get expensive.
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I see. It appears some areas of my research may have been misleading. The problem I keep running into though is anything under 20 years old that size is at least half a million dollars unless there's something seriously wrong with it
 
Is buying an older model plane (mid seventeen early 80's that big of a problem?
 
There is a reason older twins have a relatively low purchase price. Operational costs are through the roof. Training and time building in a 172 is doable but a real strain on a junior enlisted salary to begin with. I don't see that happening with a twin unless you have an additional source of income.
 
Aaaaand I can't ever see myself either having half a million to spend or justify a loan that size for something other than a house
 
Sac Arrow said:
There is a reason older twins have a relatively low purchase price. Operational costs are through the roof. Training and time building in a 172 is doable but a real strain on a junior enlisted salary to begin with. I don't see that happening with a twin unless you have an additional source of income.
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This clears up some things. My big ticket was my enlistment bonus which I was going to use to pay for the majority of the plane leaving mostly the op cost to my salary. The good thing is that my Mos has a kick ass reenlistment bonus so 100k is not hard to get.
 
I did look at the C-206. Is this perhaps a worthy compromise? Not sure on the op.cost but it does have the space and seems to be purchasable at reasonable prices for post 1985 models.
 
Also I have no secondary income. There's not time in the week to get another job being active duty. Just time on the weekend for flying
 
But I may very well be better off with a good turboprop. I won't have the range but some models have similar capacity
 
Have to get ready for class. Let me know what u guys think. I'm hungry for information.
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
Here's a question. If u need a pressurized cabin to fly above FL180 then why advertise an unpressurized plane with a service ceiling of 25 thousand ft? That makes no since to me what so ever. I was kind of disappointed to find out the Seneca wasn't pressurized cause it was the perfect size for the mission.
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As stated above, you don’t need it, but if you’re routinely flying at those altitudes, it only makes sense.
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
But I may very well be better off with a good turboprop. I won't have the range but some models have similar capacity
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PVT Dane Potter said:
I think u may be right. I think it's probably best to back down a bit and bite off something a little easier to chew. I might end up having to make a stop or two for fuel but a smaller less complicated and less expensive plane is probably going to be the way to go.
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What do you envision your annual budget for aviation is?
 
Why the FL200 requirement? My baron does what you want at 10-12,000 ft. The only barons that will do that altitude comfortably are 56TC, 58TC, or 58P
 
Haul less people shorter distances.

You'll be surprised how the economics change.
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
But I may very well be better off with a good turboprop. I won't have the range but some models have similar capacity
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Turboprops are very cheap to own and fly. That's why you see so many people buying them as their first starter airplane before moving up to more expensive stuff like 182's and SR22's.*






*Warning: May contain sarcasm
 
Ok all kidding aside. Its understandable that you're excited by all the possibilities that airplane ownership brings. Its a wonderful thing, enjoy it. But don't get too caught up in planning for a specific model of plane right now. You've got a lot of ground to cover between now and when the time comes to make that first purchase. You're going to learn a lot about flying in that time and its almost guaranteed that your idea of what your mission will be and what kind of plane will be the best fit for you will change as that other learning gets absorbed.

Instead of spending time focusing on how/when you'll buy that turboprop as your first plane (sorry but I can't type that without laughing), focus on how/when/where you'll do the training to get your private. Then focus on how/when/where you'll build experience and work on the instrument. I guarantee that whatever plane you thought will be perfect for you now will seem absolutely the wrong plane for you by the time you've got an instrument rating under your belt.

And if you're really concerned about how much it'll cost you to own so you can plan for it now, that's easy. What will it cost? All you've got. Plus a bit more. That's always the answer no matter who you are or how much you've got.
 
So I have some good news. I may have come into some money today. A lot of it. So much that it makes my 100 grand bonus look like a joke which obviously changes things a bit. Point is though that the money for training, hangar cost, insurance, fuel, nice newer model plane, inspections, maintinance costs, etc are all very doable now. I did a favor for a friend, nothing bad or illegal, but he happens to have a very large wallet and pays well for minimal service. I helped hook him up with a lawyer (personal friend of mine) to get him out of trouble with some worse people. Anyways... A few stock market investments with said seed money and I will be flying easy. Which opens up a lot of options. Now the question is how to go about said training, what to start with and the general ins and outs
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Ok all kidding aside. Its understandable that you're excited by all the possibilities that airplane ownership brings. Its a wonderful thing, enjoy it. But don't get too caught up in planning for a specific model of plane right now. You've got a lot of ground to cover between now and when the time comes to make that first purchase. You're going to learn a lot about flying in that time and its almost guaranteed that your idea of what your mission will be and what kind of plane will be the best fit for you will change as that other learning gets absorbed.

Instead of spending time focusing on how/when you'll buy that turboprop as your first plane (sorry but I can't type that without laughing), focus on how/when/where you'll do the training to get your private. Then focus on how/when/where you'll build experience and work on the instrument. I guarantee that whatever plane you thought will be perfect for you now will seem absolutely the wrong plane for you by the time you've got an instrument rating under your belt.

And if you're really concerned about how much it'll cost you to own so you can plan for it now, that's easy. What will it cost? All you've got. Plus a bit more. That's always the answer no matter who you are or how much you've got.
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As u said it's always more expensive than too expensive. So I don't want to go too high. I'm thinking around 5-600 k is probably a good area to look into.
 
He didn't do anything wrong it's just the people who were after him weren't to happy about what he was saying about them. They are all safely behind bars now. He actually went to witness protection for a while.
 
Now that I have the money and opportunity to make a lot more, the possibilities are endless.
 
PVT Dane Potter said:
.... Note I am gonna have around 250 hours along with IFR Multi and Complex so I'm not looking for a beginner/trainer like a C-172 or something. I just need some guidance on what to look at with the given specs. Thanks for your help.
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I'd really love to see a follow up on how you're doing when you've got that 250 hrs.
 
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