Looking to buy first plane. First lic'd in '81. Life got in the way. Reinstated (completed BFR). Now looking for first plane. Pretty sure I like the Sundowner. It just seems to fit our "mission". Live on Texas coast, so it will be hangared. Will use it for my IFR training. Flying mainly to Hill Country, abd occasionally to Wisconsin and North Carolina (family). Speed is NOT important to me. Retired. Thoughts? Suggestions? Hints and tips? Thanks
Looking for first plane
- Thread starter rtm1958
- Start date
Daleandee
Final Approach
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
- Messages
- 6,878
- Display Name
Display name:
Dale Andee
Paging @Half Fast ...
zayerpaul
Pre-Flight
I bought a 69 Beech Musketeer that @Halffast has now for my first plane while getting my private certificate. Same airframe as a sundowner basically. I now have a Sierra so obviously still love the models. They are good, strong and roomy airplanes. Not fast but good payload at least. They are also normally more affordable compared to the similar Piper or Cessna models, but there were fewer made so can be hard to find. They are nose heavy and don’t glide like a Cessna for sure. You can put extra weight in the baggage area or a permanent aft weight near the very back of the empennage which helps landings for sure. Happy to answer any questions you might have. The Beech Aero Club is a type specific forum that has a wealth of information just for these airframes that you should definitely check out also. Good luck.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2019
- Messages
- 1,933
- Location
- Chicago suburbs
- Display Name
Display name:
The Little Arrow That Could
I think a lot of the popular fixed gear planes would suit your mission, assuming you're not flying a lot of people around 
Can't comment on beech specifically, but Cherokees are also good low wing planes and around a similar price point. Easy to fly.
Only 2 recommendations:
- Apparently retracts get really expensive to insure as you get older; if into retirement already and planning to fly for a while that's something to consider as you shop around
- Since you're looking to do IFR in it, I'd recommend getting a plane that's got the equipment you already want. Cheaper and easier to get what you want when buying.
Can't comment on beech specifically, but Cherokees are also good low wing planes and around a similar price point. Easy to fly.
Only 2 recommendations:
- Apparently retracts get really expensive to insure as you get older; if into retirement already and planning to fly for a while that's something to consider as you shop around
- Since you're looking to do IFR in it, I'd recommend getting a plane that's got the equipment you already want. Cheaper and easier to get what you want when buying.
All good info, thanks. Yeah, the Pipers and Beech are in same price point area. I am looking for ones with partial glass cockpits, because the time/money involved to upgrade is not acceptable. Retired, so speed is not an issue. Thank you for a fast response. Look forward to sharing more of this journey with this forum. I like what I have heard about them so far. Was wondering if anyone reading this knows of any idiosyncrasies I should watch out for with this plane. Thanks again.
The most important thing in having a pleasant and successful buying experience is to find a really good seller. @zayerpaul was very helpful, to the point of going on a test flight with me after completing the purchase and getting the plane out of annual. He was great about fixing a few minor squawks and made the whole thing easy.
Most of the important things have been covered above. Don't pay too much attention to all the slowness wisecracks; the performance of the Sundowner and the B23 is comparable to a Cherokee 180 and, while they're not fast either, they don't get the derision of the Beeches. The early ones, with the smaller engines, were underpowered slugs, but the 180hp engines in the B23s and C23s are just what was needed. The planes are roomy, comfortable, and very well built. There's only a small handful of recurrent ADs, none of which are terribly onerous.
CG location is the key to getting good performance out of these planes and to making them land well. They've always been nose heavy, and if you put a couple of, uh, "robust" people in the front seats you can end up near the forward CG limit. Not only does that slow the plane down, it also can cause you to run out of elevator authority in the flare. I keep two 20lb shot bags and a 15lb maintenance kit in the cargo area and the plane lands just fine. I get close to book numbers in cruise, around 140 to 142 mph TAS (a touch over 120 knots).
The plane is less forgiving about airspeed when landing than a Cherokee. You need to fly the numbers, between 75 and 80 mph on final. Too fast and she'll balloon and float, too slow and she'll drop like a brick.
Join Beech Aero Club and get a copy of the "Mouse Hunt" checklist to learn what to watch out for when shopping. The club website also has a long-running thread called "Mouse Hunt Monday" that lists planes coming on the market every week. Many of them are known to members or owned by members, so you can get lots of information.
If you find a good one, don't hesitate to buy it. They're great planes.
Most of the important things have been covered above. Don't pay too much attention to all the slowness wisecracks; the performance of the Sundowner and the B23 is comparable to a Cherokee 180 and, while they're not fast either, they don't get the derision of the Beeches. The early ones, with the smaller engines, were underpowered slugs, but the 180hp engines in the B23s and C23s are just what was needed. The planes are roomy, comfortable, and very well built. There's only a small handful of recurrent ADs, none of which are terribly onerous.
CG location is the key to getting good performance out of these planes and to making them land well. They've always been nose heavy, and if you put a couple of, uh, "robust" people in the front seats you can end up near the forward CG limit. Not only does that slow the plane down, it also can cause you to run out of elevator authority in the flare. I keep two 20lb shot bags and a 15lb maintenance kit in the cargo area and the plane lands just fine. I get close to book numbers in cruise, around 140 to 142 mph TAS (a touch over 120 knots).
The plane is less forgiving about airspeed when landing than a Cherokee. You need to fly the numbers, between 75 and 80 mph on final. Too fast and she'll balloon and float, too slow and she'll drop like a brick.
Join Beech Aero Club and get a copy of the "Mouse Hunt" checklist to learn what to watch out for when shopping. The club website also has a long-running thread called "Mouse Hunt Monday" that lists planes coming on the market every week. Many of them are known to members or owned by members, so you can get lots of information.
If you find a good one, don't hesitate to buy it. They're great planes.
Last edited:
Watch out for black ducting. It causes corrosion where it comes in contact with the airframe and needs to be replaced. Most owners will have replaced it all, but you need to know.
Most of these planes will need new landing gear donuts. Very expensive from Textron/Beech, but there's a source in South Africa that's reasonable.
Be sure the wing attach AD has been done. Any planes that have a problem have probably been fixed by now, but check it. It's an expensive fix, and if you find a plane that needs repair here you might want to walk away.
Welcome BAC Guests - Beech Aero Club (BAC)
WELCOME TO THE BEECH AERO CLUB The Official Type Club of the Beechcraft Musketeer, Sport, Super, Sundowner, Sierra, Duchess and Skipper. The Beech Aero Club…
www.beechaeroclub.org
Join up. You'll be glad you did.
brcase
En-Route
Near Boise.
1968 BEECHCRAFT MUSKETEER B-23 • $65,900 • FOR SALE • 1968 Beechcraft Musketeer B-23. Extremely low time clean Musketeer for sale. Total Time: 1508.2! ESMOH 875.4 Lycoming 0-360 A2G 180 HP. ADSB out. Front seat shoulder harness. Clean interior and good paint. Micro vortex generators. Open to reasonable offers cash buyers only. • Contact Richard Bouge , Friend of Owner - located Boise, ID 83714 United States • Telephone: 2085711693 • Posted November 10, 2023 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Images
This one is still for sale as far as I know. It is a Gamin Avioncs Shop that has it for sale, so you might be able to negotiate some avionics into the sale of it. Been for sale for a bit. I think he just isn't in a hurry to sell it.
I have flown it and can provide a demo flight. It flies well but can't tell you much more about it than what the ad says. I think a few hours buffer and it would shine up nicely.
Brian
1968 BEECHCRAFT MUSKETEER B-23 • $65,900 • FOR SALE • 1968 Beechcraft Musketeer B-23. Extremely low time clean Musketeer for sale. Total Time: 1508.2! ESMOH 875.4 Lycoming 0-360 A2G 180 HP. ADSB out. Front seat shoulder harness. Clean interior and good paint. Micro vortex generators. Open to reasonable offers cash buyers only. • Contact Richard Bouge , Friend of Owner - located Boise, ID 83714 United States • Telephone: 2085711693 • Posted November 10, 2023 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Images
This one is still for sale as far as I know. It is a Gamin Avioncs Shop that has it for sale, so you might be able to negotiate some avionics into the sale of it. Been for sale for a bit. I think he just isn't in a hurry to sell it.
I have flown it and can provide a demo flight. It flies well but can't tell you much more about it than what the ad says. I think a few hours buffer and it would shine up nicely.
Brian
Near Boise.
1968 BEECHCRAFT MUSKETEER B-23 • $65,900 • FOR SALE • 1968 Beechcraft Musketeer B-23. Extremely low time clean Musketeer for sale. Total Time: 1508.2! ESMOH 875.4 Lycoming 0-360 A2G 180 HP. ADSB out. Front seat shoulder harness. Clean interior and good paint. Micro vortex generators. Open to reasonable offers cash buyers only. • Contact Richard Bouge , Friend of Owner - located Boise, ID 83714 United States • Telephone: 2085711693 • Posted November 10, 2023 • Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser • Recommend This Ad to a Friend • Email Advertiser • Save to Watchlist • Report This Ad • View Larger Images
This one is still for sale as far as I know. It is a Gamin Avioncs Shop that has it for sale, so you might be able to negotiate some avionics into the sale of it. Been for sale for a bit. I think he just isn't in a hurry to sell it.
I have flown it and can provide a demo flight. It flies well but can't tell you much more about it than what the ad says. I think a few hours buffer and it would shine up nicely.
Brian
Link didn't work when I tried it.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2018
- Messages
- 1,343
- Location
- The Lone Star State
- Display Name
Display name:
Chrisgoesflying
Didn't read through all the responses so someone may have already said that: Unless you are absolutely, 100% fixed on a specific brand and model for one reason or another, I'd just try to get the best plane that fits the mission for the budget I have. If speed is not important and your typical trip is just you and your wife, pretty much any fixed gear, four place aircraft fits the mold. Set your budget and get the best plane there is for the budget. By best plane, I mean best maintained and closest to what you want avionics wise. Do you really care if you snort your way through North America in a relatively slow Piper, Beech or Cessna? I personally wouldn't as long as I'm flying and don't have to 2x-3x my purchase price on repairs and upgrades.
brcase
En-Route
@rtm1958 , you might get a few tips in this thread if you haven't already read it.
www.pilotsofamerica.com
How to buy a plane
Some people have a knack for that and get real great deals, so what buying tips from those in the know can share with us sheep.
flyersfan31
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2006
- Messages
- 14,269
- Display Name
Display name:
Freiburgfan31
My first aircraft was a Sundowner. Ireally liked it. Knot for knot will burn a little more fuel than the comparable PA28/172. Cabin is much roomier. Two entry doors is a real bonus. No scooching over the pax seat to get to the drivers side. Landings are a NON-ISSUE. Super easy to land smoothly- it’s all about airspeed mgmnt. Come in at 65, 1500rpm, aft trim, and it practically lands itself. Porpoise landings are due entirely to ham-fisted pilots with excess airspeed.
I wiuld say that I like the 172 better for sightseeing. Also nice to be sheltered by that high wing. Parts prices and availability will be much better too. I needed a simple brass bushing for the nose gear, Beech price $800. Madness. You could find a machine shop and make one, yadda yadda, my point is more to illustrate how silly Beech parts prices are. And that was almost 20 yrs ago.
I wiuld say that I like the 172 better for sightseeing. Also nice to be sheltered by that high wing. Parts prices and availability will be much better too. I needed a simple brass bushing for the nose gear, Beech price $800. Madness. You could find a machine shop and make one, yadda yadda, my point is more to illustrate how silly Beech parts prices are. And that was almost 20 yrs ago.
Pinecone
En-Route
Only thing on this is, if you are under 70 and expect to want a retract, get it before 70. Many companies will continue to insure you, but most will NOT write a new policy for retract for an over 70 pilot.
As for which plane, start looking and see what is out there. When I decided to buy, I was thinking Tiger, but the prices were nuts and few (none) had a reasonably modern panel (WASS GPS and some form of HSI). So I spread out. Really like the Commander 114/115, but similar thing. So ended up with a Mooney.