Looking For A New Airplane

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DatsClaybo

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All,

I need an good airplane that can carry 4 or 5 people with 700 lbs of baggage. I'd rather not pay a million dollars. And, of course, it should have low operating costs. Any personal experiences or suggestions?
 
I've flown planes where you could carry 700 pounds of baggage, or 4 small people. But not both. Oh, and that 700 pounds of baggage had better be able to act as PIC, cause there isn't any room for the pilot. :P Without spending a million dollars or more, I'm not sure what would meet your requirements. Something a lot bigger than a C-182, that's for sure.
 
Well, depending on where you put that baggage in the fuselage, a Piper Navajo or Chieftain would do it, for less than a million (actually for less than $300,000 you could even get counter-rotating engines) and you would be paying for reciprocating engines instead of turbines, but even so I don't know if operating costs for a Navajo could be termed "low."
 
Do you need this mission profile (about 1500-1700 lbs and fuel) all the time, or just once in a while?

If you really need to move this kind of stuff all the time, by air, then there's no cheap way to do it. You need a large piston twin, or a small turboprop. And neither of those are cheap over time. I don't think any piston single will carry that kind of load and fuel. You'd be looking at an air-taxi class piston twin at a minimum. Cessna Caravan might be a good choice if you're gonna operate in the boonies where the turbine reliability and the need to burn JetA would matter.

Now if you don't need to do this all the time, I suggest you get a smaller airplane and charter a bigger one on the occasions you do have this mission.
 
DatsClaybo said:
All,

I need an good airplane that can carry 4 or 5 people with 700 lbs of baggage. I'd rather not pay a million dollars. And, of course, it should have low operating costs. Any personal experiences or suggestions?
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Unless your trip length is very short I can't think of any options. 5 standard sized folks plus 700 lbs is a 1600 payload. Any airplane that can carry that much with decent range will need at least as much weight in the fuel load so you'd need a useful load in the 3000-4000 lb range.
 
NC19143 said:
Aztec.
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No Aztec in the world has a payload that big. 4-5 people plus 700 lb of baggage is around 1500 lb, not to mention the volume of that much baggage. Frankly, I don't know of a piston single or twin (other than one with radial engines) which will haul that load. I'm thinking PC-12 or Cessna Caravan for this task, but I don't think you'll find one for under $1M. If you don't mind an old plane you'll have to re-equip with modern avionics and a new interior, a Beech 18 would do the job.
 
NC19143 said:
Aztec.
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KennyFlys said:
Barron?
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Neither comes close. My Baron (only one 'r' BTW) has a useful load around 1700 lbs and the highest I've ever seen is around 1900. Subtract 500 lbs for enough fuel to go any distance and you're a long way from the required payload plus there's really no place to put 700 lbs of baggage while carrying 5 people unless it's fairly compact. The Aztruck carrys a little more but is even more space challenged.
 
Ron Levy said:
No Aztec in the world has a payload that big. 4-5 people plus 700 lb of baggage is around 1500 lb, not to mention the volume of that much baggage. Frankly, I don't know of a piston single or twin (other than one with radial engines) which will haul that load. I'm thinking PC-12 or Cessna Caravan for this task, but I don't think you'll find one for under $1M. If you don't mind an old plane you'll have to re-equip with modern avionics and a new interior, a Beech 18 would do the job.
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A Piper Navajo books out with a useful load around 2500 lbs, and carries 150 gallons and up. With 900 lbs of fuel, and 700 lbs of baggage, that leaves about 900 lbs for passengers, if you don't mind flying near gross. Of course most actual planes are heavier than book, but even so I would think that as long as some of those four or five people aren't my size, and one doesn't fill the tanks to capacity, it would satisfy the mission, so long as he/she isn't looking to fly into the Idaho backcountry :eek: The operators up here loved them for their payload, until they all started moving into turboprops instead. But a few are still flying Navajos and Chieftains part 121.

Asking price on non-turboed, non-C/R Navajos are around $200k.
 
alaskaflyer said:
A Piper Navajo books out with a useful load around 2500 lbs, and carries 150 gallons and up. With 900 lbs of fuel, and 700 lbs of baggage, that leaves about 900 lbs for passengers, if you don't mind flying near gross. Of course most actual planes are heavier than book, but even so I would think that as long as some of those four or five people aren't my size, and one doesn't fill the tanks to capacity, it would satisfy the mission, so long as he/she isn't looking to fly into the Idaho backcountry :eek: The operators up here loved them for their payload, until they all started moving into turboprops instead. But a few are still flying Navajos and Chieftains part 121.

Asking price on non-turboed, non-C/R Navajos are around $200k.
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Assuming that 2500 lb useful load is marketing info, you can probably count on something like 2200 in reality. The Navajo that my friend had would legally carry about 1200-1300 lbs with 150 gallons.
 
DatsClaybo said:
All,

I need an good airplane that can carry 4 or 5 people with 700 lbs of baggage. I'd rather not pay a million dollars. And, of course, it should have low operating costs. Any personal experiences or suggestions?
Click to expand...

FedEx your bags...
 
Good information and thanks a lot. I saw an older twin Aero Commander that boast that kind of useful load. Any experience with this bird?

And the FedEx idea is a good one.
 
Well, it might actually be more cost-effective to buy TWO planes and hire a pilot for those times when you're really going to need them both!
 
Folks, think carefully about the volume occupied by 700 lb of baggage -- and then think about fitting that into a 4xx Cessna or Navajo after you've already put five people in in the seats. Where you gonna put it all? And where will the cg be? It just doesn't seem like enough airplane for the job.
 
AirBaker said:
FedEx your bags...
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on a smaller scale, but that's what we do

we can't fit everything in the travel air that we used to take in the PA32, but as it turns out i don't want to deal with all that stuff anyway. There were a lot of times we unloaded the 6 and couldn't fit it all in one cab. Now we DHL a box of stuff to the hotel if we're going on a weeks trip with all 4 of us. Just a couple small suitcases in the plane.
 
Ron Levy said:
Folks, think carefully about the volume occupied by 700 lb of baggage -- and then think about fitting that into a 4xx Cessna or Navajo after you've already put five people in in the seats. Where you gonna put it all? And where will the cg be? It just doesn't seem like enough airplane for the job.
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I've got it! A DC3 would be perfect.
 
Thanks for all your input. This has really put my problem into perspective. With your help, I think that I've got a possible solution.

ClayBo
 
I can recommend the 421A to you with confidence. Cargo can go in the nose bay, the wing nacelles and the aft of the cabin. I've flown them for years and find them to be extraordinary planes. One man's opinion, but the Navajos don't hold a candle to them. Purchase price for a nice one with mid-time engines around 150,000. Pressurized. 250 mph cruise. 35 to 40 gph at cruise. ROC around 2,000 fpm. Service ceiling 26,000. Good, honest airplane that's a joy to fly.
 
DatsClaybo said:
Thanks for all your input. This has really put my problem into perspective. With your help, I think that I've got a possible solution.

ClayBo
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I'm thinking L39...what am I thinking?!?:)
Sorry, I just flew into Rockford, IL, and saw 7 L39s at North American.
For a constructive idea, I think the Aztec is a nice bird.
 
Aztec info: '66 C model
2054 lb payload, but it won't fly itself.
extended fuel 192 gallons
902 lb payload with all tanks full
front and rear baggage compartments hold 150 lbs baggage each
leave 48 gallons of fuel at home and we can fill the 6 seats and each baggage compartment with 150 lbs. each for a 4 1/2 hour flight w/reserves, 720 nm.
 
DatsClaybo said:
Thanks for all your input. This has really put my problem into perspective. With your help, I think that I've got a possible solution.
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So what is your solution? I'm interested. :)
 
jkaduk said:
700 pounds of baggage for 5 people? Who the heck carries over a 100 pounds of baggage?
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You've apparently never met my girlfriend... :D

(Wait, you're right here? Sorry honey, I love you! What are you - ow ow ow!)
 
jkaduk said:
700 pounds of baggage for 5 people? Who the heck carries over a 100 pounds of baggage?
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Gold bullion, baby. Don't ask, the fewer questions the better....
 
yea the 421 could handle that kind of weight. ours is 4999 empty with max takeoff of 7579, so you'd have about 1000 lbs of fuel that you could take which is good for around 3 hrs plus an hour reserve. so 6-700 nautical mile legs. but you wont be climbing 2000 fpm at gross, more like 500
 
alaskaflyer said:
Well, depending on where you put that baggage in the fuselage, a Piper Navajo or Chieftain would do it, for less than a million (actually for less than $300,000 you could even get counter-rotating engines) and you would be paying for reciprocating engines instead of turbines, but even so I don't know if operating costs for a Navajo could be termed "low."
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Richard,

The Chieftain would be marginal. 5 people at 180 each and 700 baggage is 1600 lbs. Perhaps you could get 1.5 to 2 hours worth of gas in it, too, but that's about it. I can't remember what our numbers were on ours but the payload was around 1000 lbs and carried about 1200 lbs of gas (normal tanks).

However, could be done.

I think a twin Beech would do a better job.
 
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