Looking at the F33a

AnthonyS1

AnthonyS1

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AnthonyS1
Hello all,
My partner and I just sold are Cherokee Archer and are narrowing down our search to an F33a. We feel the F33a may fit our mission perfectly. Here is a link for one we are looking at. https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/V...l=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=39790371&dealerid=

What are the thoughts on the asking price? We plan to do the engine overhaul right away. Also plan on eventually adding a glass PFD such as the aspen. Our A&P said for IO-520BB overhaul expect around 40k. Does this sound right? What are some things we should look for when looking at these aircraft? I know about the rudder and wing spar AD.

One thing that concerns me a bit is not being able to ever carry 4 people. Very seldom does our mission include 4 people. It's usually just 2 people and bags. I've been trying to find a weight and balance calculator to play with for the F33a but can only find ones online for serial number CE-674 and after! the above aircraft has an empty weight CG of 81.19. Anyone know of an online weight and balance calculator I can play with?

Here is another aircraft I found in our area that looks nice...
https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/29411491/1972-beechcraft-f33a-bonanza
Thoughts on price?
Pros i see of this aircraft: fresh engine overhaul complete, glass avionics something we want already done, ADS/B done, nice panel. Cons: Autopilot appears to be inop and may need to be replaced. from looking at prices of new autopilots on Sarasota avionics this can be VERY expensive...no tip tanks or flap gap/aileron seals.. I really like that the other aircraft has them already installed.. Those leather seats are hideous and would have to go right away!

What is the difference between an IO-520-BB and IO-520BA.
Also Aircraft two on controller has that very large V shaped antenna installed. What is that for???

Already posted a thread on beechtalk. Looking for some extra insight here. thanks
 
The principal difference between the IO520BA and the IO520BB is that the BB has larger crank journals than the BA. Both are good mills.

As you asked, I'll be straight - with timed-out engine and decent but not exceptional avionics, the price is high. I'd expect, at this price, to have a low-mid time engine.
 
SCCutler said:
The principal difference between the IO520BA and the IO520BB is that the BB has larger crank journals than the BA. Both are good mills.

As you asked, I'll be straight - with timed-out engine and decent but not exceptional avionics, the price is high. I'd expect, at this price, to have a low-mid time engine.
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What would be a good offer to make on this aircraft in your opinion?
 
AnthonyS1 said:
What would be a good offer to make on this aircraft in your opinion?
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The delta to start from is 50% to 75% of the OH cost.

So, adjust the price accordingly....it’s negotiation.
 
I would offer 85-90K for the runout airplane. But I'd short that very position if I could, cuz I think you're gonna get zilch from that seller if you offer -30AMUs in this market; but that's what that thing is worth to me.

But, I wouldn't buy a BE-33 with a empty CG of 81+ at any price, for me. Useless back seat and baggage compartment, and I have a family centric mission. "Two-seater speed demon" can be done much cheaper than hauling around that much useless empty volume and parasite drag for those who can truly justify their mission with just two seats. ymmv.
 
AnthonyS1 said:
So ugly. Literally looks like it would cost a knot or two in airspeed lol.
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IK04 said:
They are usually on the belly. I guess the owner was planning on saving some money after his first gear-up landing ;>)
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Very common antenna from the factory on that vintage of Beechcraft Bonanzas and some of the Barons.

Even the Carenado flightsim version has one.:p


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Do you need the tip tanks ?

I fly two different A36. One with, one without tips. I prefer how the one without tips handles. 120gallons is a lot of fuel for a normally aspirated 520. That's like 9hrs with a 45min reserve o_O
 
weilke said:
Do you need the tip tanks ?

I fly two different A36. One with, one without tips. I prefer how the one without tips handles. 120gallons is a lot of fuel for a normally aspirated 520. That's like 9hrs with a 45min reserve o_O
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Don't the D'Shannon tip tanks give a slight gross weight increase?
 
GRG55 said:
He should fergettabout that 520.

THIS is the kinda F33 to go fast :D

View attachment 70003
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This is way outside our price range.

weilke said:
Do you need the tip tanks ?

I fly two different A36. One with, one without tips. I prefer how the one without tips handles. 120gallons is a lot of fuel for a normally aspirated 520. That's like 9hrs with a 45min reserve o_O
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From what I've been reading aside from the extra fuel the tip tanks provide they help with the aft cg loading problem and give a bump in the max gross weight.
 
Oh, and between the two aircraft, it's the second one hands doen.. Everything is done. Even if you can buy the first one for 90k, after the things you want are done you are 6momths in and another 70k.

Btw. Yes the OH is 40k. In a new to you plane, you will run into lots of 'while we are here's items once the engine is off.
 
GRG55 said:
Don't the D'Shannon tip tanks give a slight gross weight increase?
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Not sure on the F33a. They do on the A36, but they take you out of the utility category.

Thing to keep in mind is that even with the UL bump, your engine isn't getting any bigger. Our TC has that 'paper weight increase' but you know once you are loaded beyond the 3600lb.

The Bonanza / Debonair is a delightful to fly well balanced aircraft from the factory. Modifying it beyond what it is starts to subtract from the total package. If you want 4 seats and the ability to fill them (and 1971 doesn't scare you), buy a C model Comanche.
 
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I own a 1975 F33A with the BB engine. Depending upon the fuel load and the people I can do four people but I have only had 4 in it a couple of times, 99% of the time it is just two of us. I plan on 160 knots true and I fly 2500 RPM and WOT and LOP all the time. My CG is 79.8. Go to the APP store and download the app "Bonanza Performance" and input the type and serial number. I do not have tip tanks and plan on 13 gph (works out pretty close but I am usually about 12.5 at altitude) which will give me about 4:15 with a touch over an hour reserve (74 usable) I have GAMI injectors and the JPI 830 Engine Monitor. Tip tanks do give you a GW increase and CG help. I spoke with Bill Cunningham at Powermaster Engines in Tulsa and he said he would overhaul mine with Superior parts and everything forward of the firewall new for approximately 60K total. Tim, at Tornado Alley Turbo made me an offer to really do mine "right" with an IO-550 (brand new), TAT Turbo Normalizer, built in O2 and the FTA air conditioner for $130K total. The 550 would give me approximately 100 lbs increase in gross weight but I do not have that type of money. I take my plane to Savannah TN this week to have their AC installed.

I do not have any time in a V Tail and am partial to the straight tail. The F33A is very fast, comfortable, and reportedly has the best handling of all Bonanzas but that is a very subjective statement. I suggest you go on the ABS website www.bonanza.org and do some research.

PS. The second one is the better deal. I do not have glass but have a King FD and AP with the JPI 830, 530W, 430 and an Aera 796. That one has the window coverings that help a lot with the heat. I paid about 10K less than their asking price. Mine had 3900 TT and 900 on a 2001 Factory new IO-520BB. I also have the Garmin 345 ADSB in and out.
 
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That runout plane was originally listed at less than 70K.
Even at that price I’d be looking at the the finished one.
You want to fly or visit shops?
 
weilke said:
Not sure on the F33a. They do on the A36, but they take you out of the utility category.

Thing to keep in mind is that even with the UL bump, your engine isn't getting any bigger. Our TC has that 'paper weight increase' but you know once you are loaded beyond the 3600lb.

The Bonanza / Debonair is a delightful to fly well balanced aircraft from the factory. Modifying it beyond what it is starts to subtract from the total package. If you want 4 seats and the ability to fill them (and 1971 doesn't scare you), buy a C model Comanche.
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isn't gross weight sometimes dependent on how much load the landing gear can take and not how well the engine performs? I haven't had the pleasure of doing much flying behind a 520.
 
Unless you are dead set on owning a straight tail you should expand your search to include v-tails. I would wager that most pilots could not tell which tail was behind them in flight and in many cases the CG loading can be more favorable.
 
What’s your primary want here? Speed?

Unless you just really like how a F33A looks, I’d have a hard time justifying paying that much when a post stretch Mooney of the same vintage will do it for 2-3x less on the purchace price and cost less to fuel and maintain. They also won’t have the CG issues mentioned and four people is doable like you want.

But I’m a more practical, find the best deal for the mission kind of person. Others aren’t and that’s fine.
 
rbridges said:
isn't gross weight sometimes dependent on how much load the landing gear can take and not how well the engine performs? I haven't had the pleasure of doing much flying behind a 520.
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The limitation depends on the aircraft. One thing that limits MGW is the ability to go around with flaps at a 5000ft density altitude. That's why in some aircraft bigger engines and turbochargers give a MGW increase. Some aircraft are limited by stall speed. In those, adding vortex generators can give you a MGW increase. Other aircraft are limited by the capacity of the whole airframe parachute, in those neither engine nor wing modifications will increase MGW. Then there are indeed aircraft that are limited by the landing gear (the earlier DA40 comes to mind, beefing up the landing gear arch gives a MGW increase).
There are also a couple of STCs based on magic.
 
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Max1maul said:
Unless you are dead set on owning a straight tail you should expand your search to include v-tails. I would wager that most pilots could not tell which tail was behind them in flight and in many cases the CG loading can be more favorable.
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I'm not dead against a v tail. I just havent seem to be able find one that I really like in our price range. I do prefer the look of the straight tail though.

Bonchie said:
What’s your primary want here? Speed?

Unless you just really like how a F33A looks, I’d have a hard time justifying paying that much when a post stretch Mooney of the same vintage will do it for 2-3x less on the purchace price and cost less to fuel and maintain. They also won’t have the CG issues mentioned and four people is doable like you want.

But I’m a more practical, find the best deal for the mission kind of person. Others aren’t and that’s fine.
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Never been a fan of mooney aircraft. Seem too small and cramped. I really couldn't imagine flying in something tighter than our cherokee archer. Maybe I just need to fly a few... What model were you referring to?
 
Where are you located? I have a F33a, I'd be glad to show you/fly. (sorry, not for sale)
 
Badger said:
Where are you located? I have a F33a, I'd be glad to show you/fly. (sorry, not for sale)
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I'm located in the Philly area. I Live on the Jersey side. Home airport N14. What have been your experiences with your aircraft W&B wise? Do you ever carry 3 passengers? I ran some weight and balance scenarios in the bonanza performence app and honestly it's not really as bad as I thought it would be. What are your cruise and fuel performence numbers? 160ktas at 13.5 seem to be the common.
 
Alan Fox is in your area....contact him. He'll show you his...maybe even take you flying.
 
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Don't tell my Mooney friends, but having flown a similar C33 Debonair (admittedly with a 300 HP conversion) and both stretch and short-nosed Mooneys, I'd take an F over a Mooney.
 
AnthonyS1 said:
Never been a fan of mooney aircraft. Seem too small and cramped. I really couldn't imagine flying in something tighter than our cherokee archer. Maybe I just need to fly a few... What model were you referring to?
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Oh the heresy !! You are clearly wrong. Al Mooney was 7ft tall and 400lbs and he built the plane to fit himself. Oh, and you can put like a wrestler in the back seat after the front seat is cranked all the way back.









No, you are right, they are cramped. The 'stretch' ones are slightly less cramped than the 'C' era planes, but cramped nevertheless.
 
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What indicators other than an arbitrary total time are we using to determine the requirement for an immediate engine overhaul?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
Eric Stoltz said:
What indicators other than an arbitrary total time are we using to determine the requirement for an immediate engine overhaul?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
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Probably the most likely is the condition of the cylinders....they tend to be the achilles heal of TCM engines and require Top OHs mid-time. If the engine was not run cool (keeping the CHTs below 370 deg F)....it will need a Top sometime after 500-700 hrs.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Probably the most likely is the condition of the cylinders....they tend to be the achilles heal of TCM engines and require Top OHs mid-time. If the engine was not run cool (keeping the CHTs below 370 deg F)....it will need a Top sometime after 500-700 hrs.
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Today I would ask to see the engine monitor data... and if no engine monitor, I would assume the engine has been abused.
Because how could they tell?
 
I have a early 33, a Debonair with the 225hp engine. I have no problem carrying 4, I can put 400 lbs in the back seat and 400lbs in the front, as long as I keep my fuel to 44 gal. No baggage though. Of coarse with lighter people I can move things around. My empty CG is 78.8.
 
160kts ar 13gph is fair. Just started lessons in a 1990 F33A with a 550 and it is a hoot! If I can get a champ or PA12 too Ill have the spectrum covered.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Don't tell my Mooney friends, but having flown a similar C33 Debonair (admittedly with a 300 HP conversion) and both stretch and short-nosed Mooneys, I'd take an F over a Mooney.
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I’m telling!!!!!!
 
Eric Stoltz said:
What indicators other than an arbitrary total time are we using to determine the requirement for an immediate engine overhaul?
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Nothing at all - if the engine runs strong and tests clean, I'd fly it like I stole it.

But the engine hours affect market value, without fail.
 
SCCutler said:
Nothing at all - if the engine runs strong and tests clean, I'd fly it like I stole it.

But the engine hours affect market value, without fail.
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what if I told you it had 1,200 SMOH....and looked like this?
 

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