Long haul flying - what a PITA

masloki

masloki

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Nunya
Literally a pain in the back. I clocked about 7+ hours on the Hobbs yesterday and it feels like someone dropped a bowling ball on my back. With some preflight stretching, walking and more stretching at the fuel stop, and whatever movement I could do inflight, none of it was enough to prevent waking up stiff. I also learned towns named Paris are not as nice as the place in France.

What are your tips for not feeling wrecked after a long day sitting on your butt? I’m guessing @Katamarino learned a few tricks.
 
Hope your back feels better. Ergonomics are highly individual, so it’s very hard to give general advice on the matter.

But I am reminded of a song by George Jones and Tammy Wynette*, “We’re Not The Jet Set”. The intro goes,

”By a fountain back in Rome
I fell in love with you
In a small cafe in Athens
You said you loved me too
And it was April in Paris
When I first held you close to me
Rome, Georgia
Athens, Texas
And Paris, Tennessee…”


*Though I first knew of the song from a John Prine version.
 
600 mg ibuprofen makes the back and all my metal parts feel better.

I remember taking our Sundowner to Gulf Shores from Wilmington Delaware. Two fuel stops and just shy of ten hours to get there. My metal parts were not wanting to work after that ride. My bride got out at Jack Edwards (JKA) and the young man asked her how was your flight.....without hesitation she blurted out my ass is numb. His look was priceless and my brides face just as shocked that she said that out loud. She apologized while I almost fell off the wing from laughing. That's the day I got the go ahead to by the Debonair....and the rest is history.
 
What plane do you have again?

I ferried a 185 from WI to Maine in a day through a snowstorm - I was exhausted, but my back was fine... Seating position matters. Cessnas are more upright like trucks and SUV's, Many low-wings are more car like.
 
In spite of my prior sentiments regarding general advice…

I find lumbar support makes a world of difference for my compromised lower back. If the plane doesn’t provide enough, lower back lumbar support of some sort helps me a lot.
 
Seriously, after doing many 7 to 10 hour days in the Pilatus, including many 5 hour plus legs, I finally broke down and bought one of the ridiculously expensive Oregon Aero seat cushions at Oshkosh. It does really help.
 
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FastEddieB said:
Rome, Georgia
Athens, Texas
And Paris, Tennessee…”
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Heard of Athens, Georgia, and this was Paris, TX. And my inner juvenile giggled at each mention of “Cox Field” or “Paris Cox” which totally doesn’t sound like “pair of Cox.”
 
Agree with Dave on the seat cushion. Two 6-hour legs in one day, I was ready for a beer but my back was fine.
 
ateamer said:
One of our neighbors has flown his Lancair around the world twice - polar and equatorial. His longest leg was Guam to Jacksonville, 38+ hours. I asked how he stayed awake for that long and he said “fear”.
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Say hi to Bill next time you see him. (Lancair cohort)

I did 9+ hrs Wed in a 182, ending it with 2.5hrs night, 1hr of that vfr OTT.
Glad the clouds ended before destination, did not want to do an approach after that long of a day.
 
Big airplane jokes aside...I can only do three hour legs. This is mostly bladder dictated, but also I've found that my back gets sore if I push it longer than that. I take long breaks between legs. I generally plan to stop for lunch, and dinner if the flight is that long. I like to take about an hour, sit down for lunch, lounge in the FBO a bit. Greatly refreshes my body, but 6 hours in the plane is still mentally tiring. 7-8 and I'm pretty wiped, never done a full 9, but 3 legs is my hard limit. Physically I feel fine, but my brain is fogged. @NealRomeoGolf has done 13 in a day, and regularly does 5+ in a leg. Not sure how he does it.
 
We just did our first long trip. 5.8 hours but we stopped once to warm up and then once to spend the night. Finished 2.2 hours the next morning. Our trip back we planned one stop for fuel and food. After eating we took off and a little over an hour later we were ready for a restroom stop. Finished the last leg for 5.2 hours that day. I was ready to land.

In the future I will plan for 2:15 to 2:30 legs and probably 5:00 at most a day. If I need to get there faster I will go commercial!
 
In March I did MYEF-KFPR-KAJR-KDPA in 11.0 Hobbs, 12.3 block time (Time Out MYEF to Time in KDPA) in an Arrow with old worn out seats. Other than the gnarly approach into home, by the time I put the plane away I was ready to hit the road again. I’m a bit of a fanatic however.

In general, I find fuel stops are super helpful to stretch and get limber again.
 
Bunch of light weights.

13.5 one day, although I was pretty much useless the next day. I've done 11 as well. But I was trained for this as a child. I have 7 siblings and all of our extended family was out west (we lived in Chicago). Every summer we would load up the suburban and head down I-80. We did not stop to eat. We did not sleep in hotels. We stopped for gas and that's it. A suburban can go a while. Unless you wanted the humiliation of using a diaper, you held it. I have been known to cross the Atlantic (commercially) without using the lav. I find airplane toilets to be claustrophobic and disgusting and I use my youth-trained skill to avoid them.

I guess that's the bladder part. For the back, I just suck it up. Despite redoing my seats last year, my pilot seat still leaves something to be desired for the right butt cheek. I get over it.
 
Two to three hours at a time eight to eleven a day . Usually do the coast in three days.
 
Much over an hour in my Hatz and my butt gets numb. The seat is too upright. I've done 4+ hour days but that's a lot. Replacing the seat cushion with Confor foam helped a lot.
 
For me:
-Make each leg 2-3 hours
-Auto pilot as much as possible
-Hydrate (pee bottle mandatory for output)
-O2 above 5k

The more focused I am, the more drained I get:
-Pull your seat back and lean the back a little in cruise to make the ride a little less “tense”.
-No ATC (seems like I use ATC 90% of the time).
 
kaiser said:
In March I did MYEF-KFPR-KAJR-KDPA in 11.0 Hobbs, 12.3 block time (Time Out MYEF to Time in KDPA) in an Arrow with old worn out seats. Other than the gnarly approach into home, by the time I put the plane away I was ready to hit the road again. I’m a bit of a fanatic however.

In general, I find fuel stops are super helpful to stretch and get limber again.
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Well, this was two gnarly approaches which didn’t help and 20-30kt headwinds. The airport we were aiming for was open SR to SS (actual SS, not sloppy NOTAMs at RR) and TS scheduled to hit soon after SS, so we pushed early AM. Low ceilings over the Midwest and south central so I channeled @kaiser and had two alternates planned for each stop, plus weather watching and cajoling ATC. First approach, LPV was 100’ above minimums, and second was the same, but 100’ above LNAV so had more to work with there. But it was the 7 hours butt in seat time that seemed to take its toll.
 
rockwoodrv9a said:
We just did our first long trip. 5.8 hours but we stopped once to warm up and then once to spend the night. Finished 2.2 hours the next morning. Our trip back we planned one stop for fuel and food. After eating we took off and a little over an hour later we were ready for a restroom stop. Finished the last leg for 5.2 hours that day. I was ready to land.

In the future I will plan for 2:15 to 2:30 legs and probably 5:00 at most a day. If I need to get there faster I will go commercial!
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I’m right there with you. A lot of new folks think they will purchase a small GA airplane and jet around the country. Not so fast Kemosabe!
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Bunch of light weights.

13.5 one day, although I was pretty much useless the next day. I've done 11 as well. But I was trained for this as a child. I have 7 siblings and all of our extended family was out west (we lived in Chicago). Every summer we would load up the suburban and head down I-80. We did not stop to eat. We did not sleep in hotels. We stopped for gas and that's it. A suburban can go a while. Unless you wanted the humiliation of using a diaper, you held it. I have been known to cross the Atlantic (commercially) without using the lav. I find airplane toilets to be claustrophobic and disgusting and I use my youth-trained skill to avoid them.

I guess that's the bladder part. For the back, I just suck it up. Despite redoing my seats last year, my pilot seat still leaves something to be desired for the right butt cheek. I get over it.
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Sounds like child abuse to me! :)
 
masloki said:
Literally a pain in the back. I clocked about 7+ hours on the Hobbs yesterday and it feels like someone dropped a bowling ball on my back. With some preflight stretching, walking and more stretching at the fuel stop, and whatever movement I could do inflight, none of it was enough to prevent waking up stiff. I also learned towns named Paris are not as nice as the place in France.

What are your tips for not feeling wrecked after a long day sitting on your butt? I’m guessing @Katamarino learned a few tricks.
Click to expand...

33.8 hours. One takeoff. One landing. Four 120K pound air refuelings. 18 hours due-regard over the ocean. All while wearing 8 pounds of helmet and 45 pounds of parachute. Quit whining. You’re building your hours for upgrade…

Now, where’d I put my walker…

As for the GA side, buy a 210. More than enough room. Comfy articulating seats. So much legroom you won’t be able to touch the rudder pedals with the seat full aft.
 
orca64 said:
33.8 hours. One takeoff. One landing. Four 120K pound air refuelings. 18 hours due-regard over the ocean. All while wearing 8 pounds of helmet and 45 pounds of parachute. Quit whining. You’re building your hours for upgrade…

Now, where’d I put my walker…

As for the GA side, buy a 210. More than enough room. Comfy articulating seats. So much legroom you won’t be able to touch the rudder pedals with the seat full aft.
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Second the C210. Best combo of comfort and speed short of a SETP.
 
I did almost 7 in a Bravo yesterday. Was tired, but no complaints today.
 
My first cross country as a student pilot with my CFI was to Paris, TX from ADS. We got breakfast and then headed back. 20 years ago.
 
You haven't lived until you've been to Paris. Illinois. KPRG.

Actually it's a pretty nice little airport, and they usually have a great gas price.
 
If you are flying an unpressurized aircraft, supplemental oxygen can be a game changer. Yes the regulations don't kick in until 12,500, but even at 6,000 for long periods of time you are slowly becoming mildly hypoxic.
 
I don’t do legs over 3.5 hours. One of either me, my wife or the puppy will start to complain otherwise. Also no more than two legs per day. I’ve done very long cross countries that way in the Cherokee with these short back seats and did fine but noticed some aches the day after that lingered for a few days. I’ve also done very long cross countries in our Comanche with the high back seats and I have no aches at all. I guess the key is the seat. My wife once rode in the back of our Comanche and she said the seats are even more comfy back there. She pretty much slept the entire flight.

I got the worst aches after flying our Ercoupe by the way. Those seats were terribly uncomfortable.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
My first cross country as a student pilot with my CFI was to Paris, TX from ADS. We got breakfast and then headed back. 20 years ago.
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I had a friend in college who flew with a buddy to Paris for lunch. Yes, Paris, France, from NYC. Their fathers were senior TWA captains so it was free, they did it just because they could.
 
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