Logging hours for cheaper aircraft insurance...

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DMD3.

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DMD3.
When it comes to getting a discount on aircraft insurance for hours logged, do most insurance companies go by logged in hours in aircraft type, or aircraft model?

For example, would a pilot with 300 hours in a C172 who wanted to own an Archer be able to get the same discount as a pilot with 300 hours logged in an Archer? (Assuming both pilots had the same ratings, same number of hours logged and had the same insurance company, etc.)

As of now I currently rent, and I can either rent a 172 for $95 per hour or a 150 for $85. Someday I'd like to buy a 172 in order to build time. I'm wondering if my hours logged in the 150 won't count towards cheaper insurance rates. Does anyone who owns know anything about this?
 
Get your instrument rating. That WILL drop your rate. Otherwise, hours are hours.
 
DMD3. said:
As of now I currently rent, and I can either rent a 172 for $95 per hour or a 150 for $85. Someday I'd like to buy a 172 in order to build time. I'm wondering if my hours logged in the 150 won't count towards cheaper insurance rates. Does anyone who owns know anything about this?
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At that rate, fly the 172 since that’s your target aircraft for time building. The real break you’re looking for will come with an instrument rating.

If time building is your mission, what’s the goal? Airlines?

If so, time build in a C/E/F Mooney; as it’s a complex aircraft that’s cheaper to acquire than the 172. But really, if airlines are your goal, then a C310 or a Seminole is really what you’d look for.

But insurance for a low time PPL without any complex time for IFR will hurt.
 
How much of an insurance break is the instrument rating typically worth, roughly? Understand it will vary, just curious about the ball park.
 
deyoung said:
How much of an insurance break is the instrument rating typically worth, roughly? Understand it will vary, just curious about the ball park.
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5% ish....... maybe less.
 
For me, the IR discount was modest, maybe 5%. But then I had a type club policy discount already. Most insurers will want you to have at least 25 hours in type to get the most affordable rates.
 
Depends on the aircraft
 
Unit74 said:
Get your instrument rating. That WILL drop your rate.
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As with everything in aviation, there are no absolutes. Getting an instrument rating did nothing to my insurance rate. The comment my broker made was that my rates were already as low as they were going to go.

On a 172, insurance is cheap no matter how many hours or what ratings the OP has.
 
They usually take into consideration total time, ratings, then type flown. Depending on the airplane sometimes doesn’t matter if you have 10 hours or 1000 hours in that make/model.
 
My 182 insurance dropped from $895 year one with about 70 hours to my credit, to about $750 year two, to $695 year three, and finally to about $650. I have about 200 hrs total time, no IR, and really no significant time in anything other than fixed gear Cessnas. I inderstand a 182 is on the cheap end of the insurance spectrum, but that seem quite cheap, especially for a low time guy. I recommend Kimmel Aviation Insurance. They shop around for the best deals, and they are just super nice folks. I mean super nice.

Did I mention how nice they are?
 
I’m a non-IFR Private Pilot with a seaplane rating. I have a bit over 300 hours, 200 of which are in a 172. I want to build time so I can fly bush planes in Alaska; I don’t really want to go the airline route (unless it’s flying people around in a bush plane, as I know of someone who recently moved up there to do that).
 
deyoung said:
How much of an insurance break is the instrument rating typically worth, roughly? Understand it will vary, just curious about the ball park.
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I had almost 300 hours in my Mooney when I finished Instruments; insurance had been holding steady since the 100 hours TIT decrease (50%). With IA, it fell another 30%. May have been my broker, because I moved 600 road miles, had to find a new guy and got another 20% off . . . .

So, it depends. On what, nobody seems to know.
 
DMD3. said:
I’m a non-IFR Private Pilot with a seaplane rating. I have a bit over 300 hours, 200 of which are in a 172. I want to build time so I can fly bush planes in Alaska; I don’t really want to go the airline route (unless it’s flying people around in a bush plane, as I know of someone who recently moved up there to do that).
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You’ll need a commercial ticket for that gig. If I were in your shoes, I’d look for a club or partnership in a 182 and knock out the IFR and C-SEL, then add the C-SES.

Why the 182? Seems like a lot of AK flying in 206/207s and the 182 checks the box for complex and hi-performance.
 
DMD3. said:
When it comes to getting a discount on aircraft insurance for hours logged, do most insurance companies go by logged in hours in aircraft type, or aircraft model?

For example, would a pilot with 300 hours in a C172 who wanted to own an Archer be able to get the same discount as a pilot with 300 hours logged in an Archer? (Assuming both pilots had the same ratings, same number of hours logged and had the same insurance company, etc.)

As of now I currently rent, and I can either rent a 172 for $95 per hour or a 150 for $85. Someday I'd like to buy a 172 in order to build time. I'm wondering if my hours logged in the 150 won't count towards cheaper insurance rates. Does anyone who owns know anything about this?
Click to expand...

Call your agent to get a quote. A major portion of the insurance is the value of the airplane, so you may actually save some money on an Archer vs. a 172. There are too many other variables for you to set a reasonable expectation without talking to some agents.

But @TCABM is right. You want to start building time and experience in high performance airplanes as soon as possible.
 
mondtster said:
As with everything in aviation, there are no absolutes. Getting an instrument rating did nothing to my insurance rate. The comment my broker made was that my rates were already as low as they were going to go.
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I had the same thing happen to me... sort of. I added a pre-solo student pilot as a co-owner, and my rates didn't change. Our broker said my rates were already as high as they were ever going to be. :)

To be fair... I was under 200 hours TT, with less than 100 in an Experimental model. Now we're just working on getting my partner enough hours that we're both over the hump.
 
The reality is the type of airplane and hull value are going to dictate your insurance bill more than hours and ratings. I started flying my airplane with only 150 hours TT and only a private pilot license. I now have 350 hours 250 of which are in the Venture and an IR and my premium hasn't changed. They claim getting my IR kept me from getting a price hike which offset any discount.
 
Anytime we can save money and still have the products we want is a win in my book; however, in the total cost of owning an airplane, is a couple of hundred dollars a year a deal breaker?
 
TCABM said:
You’ll need a commercial ticket for that gig. If I were in your shoes, I’d look for a club or partnership in a 182 and knock out the IFR and C-SEL, then add the C-SES.

Why the 182? Seems like a lot of AK flying in 206/207s and the 182 checks the box for complex and hi-performance.
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A 182 is not a complex airplane. It would qualify for the Commercial Single checkride if it happens to be a TAA, but it is still not complex unless you are talking about an R182 ("182RG").
 
RussR said:
A 182 is not a complex airplane. It would qualify for the Commercial Single checkride if it happens to be a TAA, but it is still not complex unless you are talking about an R182 ("182RG").
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Correct on all accounts.
 
RussR said:
A 182 is not a complex airplane. It would qualify for the Commercial Single checkride if it happens to be a TAA, but it is still not complex unless you are talking about an R182 ("182RG").
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They’re complex if they’re on floats. Otherwise, I agree.

I wouldn’t obsess over high performance time. I have no idea how much high performance time I have, nor have I ever been asked. Complex and float time would be what I’d focus on, assuming the OP’s aspirations involve these things down the road. Float time in particular, if he wants to be insurable and employable in one.
 
My insurance wants total time logged, complex, tailwheel, HP, and "time in type". Which they consider as time in make and model that you want to insure. There are a few makes and models, that, regardless of other times, they require a minimum number of hours dual before they will insure you.
And then, after a certian amount of time logged, it no longer makes a difference as to cost to insure. Case in point; Dad, ~3000 hours logged, PPAMEL/SEL no IR.
and Uncle with 30,000 hours logged ATP IR etc. same cost to insure a Cessna 182. But... After a certian age they will not write a new policy.
We found that out when we bought the Cherokee. They would not add him as a named insured due to his age. So, we just let it rest for a month or so while it was being painted. Then I insured it as normal, with no mention of him. He flies it under the "open pilot clause".
He recently got the Wright brothers Master Pilot award. He's been flying without incident for ~70 years. And just did his "3 bounces" for currency last week.

Oh, and his wife is younger than he is. ;)
 
Bumping this thread to ask one more question; if I buy an older Skyhawk but then have a Lycoming 360 put on it (180 hp conversion), would this increase the insurance rates?
 
DMD3. said:
Bumping this thread to ask one more question; if I buy an older Skyhawk but then have a Lycoming 360 put on it (180 hp conversion), would this increase the insurance rates?
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Are you planning on increasing the hull value to insure it?
 
Unit74 said:
Get your instrument rating. That WILL drop your rate. Otherwise, hours are hours.
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Note that if you have multiple people on your policy, one of them getting an instrument rating will do NOTHING. Since I'm rated and my wife isn't, we get dinged based on her "inexperience."
 
I just insured my 32-300 as a sub 100 hr PPL no endorsements at all. What I was told by my agent at Falcon(best quotes of 4), IFR was worth about 10%. My best way to drop the rate was fly the type I insured. They wouldn’t even let my CFI (950tt 0 in type, CFII, MEI) go un-named due to 0 time in type for my 10 hr instruction period. He also needed 10 hrs of check out to be covered. It was all about time in type. Just know you pay out the ass for the first year. I’ve got 15hrs now in the 2 weeks that I’ve owned it (flew it home with ferry pilot/cfi from Iowa and got 8 hrs credit toward the 10) and I’m projecting 100-150 when it’s time for renewal. Then maybe I’ll be below 1500-1800 for year 2. Was 2580 for first year. Others quoted me 3300-3900 for same coverage. Hull value of 110k
 
I guess another strategy would be to buy the plane, fly off 25 hours or something, and then insure it.
 
If you want to fly a bush plane you'll need tailwheel time. Also move to Idaho as there is a large flying club in Boise that will let you fly their airplanes in the backcountry so you could get a lot of experience there. Also there are several backcountry air charters that you might possibly get a job with in less time than Alaska. As for insurance seems like 100hrs in type gets you down to minimum rates. Also total time in a large wariety of airplanes minimizes check outs.
 
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