Logbook Question

RyanB

RyanB

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I finished the last page of my Gleim logbook yesterday. Today I got a Jeppesen and I’m seeing that instead of having two separate columns for cross country (ALL & Over 50nm) like the Gleim has, the Jepp logbook just has one column for cross country time.

Considering that higher ratings typically want XC time of 50nm or greater, how do I go about distinguishing that in the Jepp logbook with just a single Cross Country column? Is it assumed that XC time is greater than 50nm in this case?
 
:rolleyes: Thanks for the helpful advice.
 
Log per the basic definition of cross country and somehow mark or add up separately the ones over 50 miles…or only log over 50 miles…Or add another column.

nothing is assumed. It’s up to you.
 
Source another Gleim if you like that one. My logbook only has one XC column and I just log it if over 50nm.
 
I've always just considered it to be over 50nm - it keeps things simple and based on the way you fly, I can't imagine you'll need the less restrictive definition anyway.
 
RyanB said:
:rolleyes: Thanks for the helpful advice.
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It's your logbook, you can log however you like. Put an asterix next to long XCs and total it separately.... I never had a paper logbook with extra columns, but when I put my time into MFB, it calculated it automatically, so that's my advice. :rolleyes: If you already have enough for commercial, it may not even matter.
 
I used to maintain an excel file for everything above 50nm and whatever is required for commercial. After tracking it for some 200 hrs I stopped. As a matter of fact I haven’t update my paper log book in a while… I should probably do that.
 
RyanB said:
I finished the last page of my Gleim logbook yesterday. Today I got a Jeppesen and I’m seeing that instead of having two separate columns for cross country (ALL & Over 50nm) like the Gleim has, the Jepp logbook just has one column for cross country time.

Considering that higher ratings typically want XC time of 50nm or greater, how do I go about distinguishing that in the Jepp logbook with just a single Cross Country column? Is it assumed that XC time is greater than 50nm in this case?
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Not many logbooks make that distinction. Most only have one XC column. It is really up to you to decide what it means so long as you're consistent. You could add a column if you wish or divide the cross-country entries with a slash to distinguish them. Lastly you could return the new logbook and get one that has the columns you want. I really like the Sporty's logbooks (one of their few in-house products I recommend) not only because of the paper color and quality but also the entire remarks section can be made into custom columns.
 
Is there a blank column that you can write in >50 mile XC? You could just log >50 mile flights as cross country flights and not worry about logging other shorter flights as XC time
 
When I started a new student I always probed a bit and asked about their aviation goals. If the goal was some sort of professional flying we'd log all cross country flights of any length and the >50nm ones separately. In the logbooks with only one column for cross country I'd oftentimes use one side of the column for all XC and the other side of it for >50nm. You could use another blank column to do the same thing.
 
jordane93 said:
Is there a blank column that you can write in >50 mile XC? You could just log >50 mile flights as cross country flights and not worry about logging other shorter flights as XC time
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Only thing is, as I understand it, 135regs count flights under 50nm as XC time. Takeoff from airport A and land at airport B 15nm away and it’s considered XC, so I feel like there’s value in having them, no?
 
RyanB said:
Only thing is, as I understand it, 135regs count flights under 50nm as XC time. Takeoff from airport A and land at airport B 15nm away and it’s considered XC, so I feel like there’s value in having them, no?
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That's a pretty narrow band that it matters though, similiar to logging XC's where you didn't stop for ATP's. Once you get over 500 XC (>51nm with the stop), then why would you continue to track this?
Electronic is the way to go, paper logbook for the basics. Astericks if you think you'll care until you have plenty.
 
For what it's worth, while I was working toward my sport pilot, I logged any xc over 25 miles, because that's the number for sport, and most of my flights were less than 50. Once I finished sport and was working toward private, I made a correction entry in my log that read "adjusted XC to only include >50nm" and subtracted the shorter flights. Easy. Now I just log over 50, because the only thing I see me needing it for is instrument and maybe commercial. Electronic log is probably smarter, but too much like work to me. I do occasionally take photos of the new pages and email them to myself, though, in case I have to re-create it.
 
I think the bottom line isn’t what you log, but what you fly…if part of the goal is getting ratings built up, don’t fly 30-mile cross-countries unless you have a good reason to do so.

I decided at 240 hours to get my Commercial certificate. 10 hours of instruction (including 4 hours of instrument) was all I needed. Everything else was taken care of by my normal flying.

My ATP didn’t happen until I was at 3500 hours, by which time the fed who audited my logbook just flipped through, looked at a few pages, and signed me off for the written.

Fly to expand your horizons and your comfort zone instead of your logbook, and the logbook will follow.
 
RyanB said:
Only thing is, as I understand it, 135regs count flights under 50nm as XC time. Takeoff from airport A and land at airport B 15nm away and it’s considered XC, so I feel like there’s value in having them, no?
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Yes, if you are looking at Part 135 and don't expect to get enough of the 50+ variety by the time you meet the other requirements, they have some value in that they help to meet absolute bare minimum requirements. They might also have value on a job application asking for cross country hours without further specification. Of course, from an experience value, repeated lunch flights to the on-field restaurant 10 nm away might not have much value beyond meeting regulatory minimums.

If you want to, just use a spare column. If I recall correctly, paper logbooks have a number of them.
 
RyanB said:
Only thing is, as I understand it, 135regs count flights under 50nm as XC time. Takeoff from airport A and land at airport B 15nm away and it’s considered XC, so I feel like there’s value in having them, no?
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There is value to that so it just depends on your flying goals. Which jep logbook did you get? I have the professional jep logbooks and it has a few blank columns so I added a turbine and turbine PIC columns. Sounds like you are considering flying for a living at some point. You may want to consider an electronic logbook. That was my only regret. I interviewed at delta with 4500TT and had 3 logbooks. Totaling everything up and making sure it was accurate on my application and matched up with my logbook was a pain. I ended up being like 10 hours off and couldn’t find the mistake. It ended up being a non issue but if I had an electronic logbook, it would have eliminated that problem.
 
jordane93 said:
Totaling everything up and making sure it was accurate on my application and matched up with my logbook was a pain. I ended up being like 10 hours off and couldn’t find the mistake.
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I made some of that easier by not logging “dual received” or “SIC” and “PIC” at the same time…that way dual, solo, PIC, and SIC all added up to total time at the bottom of the page. Same with ASEL, AMEL, & glider, so I had a cross check of my math at the bottom of every page.
 
I'll add to what @jordane93 said regarding the digital logbook - in addition to having things 'line up properly' when it comes to filling out applications, some applications can get pretty specific. For example FedEx asks (or at least used to ask) for your night time (and night landings?) broken down by aircraft type. Doesn't seem like a big deal when you have 500TT and maybe only a half dozen different aircraft flown, but by the time you're competitive for FedEx you'll likely be well over 5000TT and perhaps dozens of aircraft types under your belt - that kind of specificity on an application is a lot easier to deal with when your logbook is digital.
 
Just me - I don't count short trips as XC. I mean WTF is the value of a trip from GYR to GEU? Their class-D airspaces are literally within a mile of each other.
 
Rgbeard said:
Just me - I don't count short trips as XC. I mean WTF is the value of a trip from GYR to GEU? Their class-D airspaces are literally within a mile of each other.
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Part 135 regs value it :)
 
kayoh190 said:
I'll add to what @jordane93 said regarding the digital logbook - in addition to having things 'line up properly' when it comes to filling out applications, some applications can get pretty specific. For example FedEx asks (or at least used to ask) for your night time (and night landings?) broken down by aircraft type. Doesn't seem like a big deal when you have 500TT and maybe only a half dozen different aircraft flown, but by the time you're competitive for FedEx you'll likely be well over 5000TT and perhaps dozens of aircraft types under your belt - that kind of specificity on an application is a lot easier to deal with when your logbook is digital.
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Good to know! Might be a dumb Q but how do instructors sign electronic logbooks?
 
Rgbeard said:
Just me - I don't count short trips as XC. I mean WTF is the value of a trip from GYR to GEU? Their class-D airspaces are literally within a mile of each other.
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Same with KMDW and the old Class D at Miegs…which we used to do all the time under SVFR, being illegal for that “less than a mile”.

if you pay attention to the details, there’s value.
 
Rgbeard said:
you need to raise your sights.
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At his age I certainly wouldn't leave any kind of flying off the table, but @RyanB isn't out doing the puppy mill thing and seems to actually like going places in airplanes - so I tend to think 50nm will be a moot point by the time he's in a position for it to matter. :)
 
RyanB said:
Might be a dumb Q but how do instructors sign electronic logbooks?
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Someone else will have a more complete answer since I went electronic after I received the vast majority of my dual (a mistake since it was a PITA to make the switch that late in the game - don't be like me!). But for the occasional FR or checkout the CFI had a sticker for the endorsement/signature and I placed it in a specific section in the back of the printed version of my electronic logbook. When I did my SES I just bought a small paper logbook for my instructor to use and endorse to keep it easy.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I made some of that easier by not logging “dual received” or “SIC” and “PIC” at the same time…that way dual, solo, PIC, and SIC all added up to total time at the bottom of the page. Same with ASEL, AMEL, & glider, so I had a cross check of my math at the bottom of every page.
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After days of checking it over and over again, I just gave up. I figured I’d focus on prepping for the interview. They ended up not saying anything about the discrepancy. Another guy that I interviewed with had about a 40 hour discrepancy and they didn’t mention anything to him either. If I were to do it all over again, I’d definitely go electronic.
 
RyanB said:
Good to know! Might be a dumb Q but how do instructors sign electronic logbooks?
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Primarily one of two ways. One is the digital version of a "wet" signature. You take your finger or a stylus and write your signature on the phone or tablet. The second is an electronic signature done through one of the digital signing vendors. I have both types in my eLog and have done both types on others'.

The vendors are doing what they can to comply with AC 120-78A - Electronic Signatures, Electronic Recordkeeping, and Electronic Manuals.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Don’t fly 30-mile cross-countries unless you have a good reason to do so...
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Many, many years ago I had a job flying mixed passengers and freight in a PA32-300. It was 5 nmi from the northernmost terminal to the next one south, then 6 nmi to the next, 8 nmi to the next, then 15 nmi to the southern terminal. Sometimes instead of going direct to that last destination we flew east 8 nmi then 21 nmi on to the south. Each airport was on a separate island. A couple of the crossings required circling an island to gain altitude (required for glide distance in an emergency). I often made a 75 nmi triangle with 8 takeoffs and 8 landings.
 
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