Log book error

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Tony R

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So a student pilot friend of mine might have recorded the wrong number of landings on one particular day. The CFI said there were X landings and then when my friend went back to flightaware it was clear to my friend that the number of landings were overstated. (FYI - daytime VFR). Should my friend correct his log book or is this more trouble than it's worth?
 
I don't think it's "more trouble than it's worth" to correct it. But unless it counts for something meaningful, I wouldn't bother. There's no currency requirement.
What's something meaningful? 61.109(a)(2) requires 10 landings to a full stop at night at a towered airport. Only did 7 and the CFI put in 10? No one will notice, but I would.
 
It's no "trouble", you just cross out the wrong number and write the new number.

But as Mark says, it really doesn't matter and nobody cares for the landings you're talking about.

I'm quite sure as a CFI I have entered the wrong number of landings many times. Was it 5 or 6? Doesn't matter, and if it was before ADSB or ground track recording, there was no way after the fact to check it anyway.
 
RussR said:
I'm quite sure as a CFI I have entered the wrong number of landings many times. Was it 5 or 6?
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To tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But the question ya gotta ask yourself is, “do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk?
 
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Who would ever want to take the time and effort to compare two different sources of landings?

Personally, I don't even log them except when needed for currency. I do know I have at least one landing for every flight, but I also have no idea how many flights I've done - nor do I care.
 
More trouble than worth. When you are a student, you are scared the FAA SWAT team will fast rope into your living room if you round up the Hobbs. They won't. Can never go wrong (or almost never) following the CFI's direction.
 
Out of courtesy to the CFI, since they signed that line in my book, I would tell them how I fixed the error, in case they wanted to fix it in their book too. I’ve done this twice.
 
Who would ever even have an interest in comparing the two sources for number of landings?

Personally, I don't even keep track of them except when they're recorded for currency purposes. I know I have at least one landing for every flight, but I have no ideal how many total flights I've had - nor do I care.
 
dbahn said:
Who would ever want to take the time and effort to compare two different sources of landings?

Personally, I don't even log them except when needed for currency. I do know I have at least one landing for every flight, but I also have no idea how many flights I've done - nor do I care.
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dbahn said:
Who would ever even have an interest in comparing the two sources for number of landings?

Personally, I don't even keep track of them except when they're recorded for currency purposes. I know I have at least one landing for every flight, but I have no ideal how many total flights I've had - nor do I care.
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Heard ya the first time... :lol:
 
Have often heard fly what you want log what you need.
 
This particular day my, ummm, friend was in the pattern for 2 hours and the landings were in the upper teens. By the last few he was getting fatigued and we weren't making progress, so his instructor said let's call it a day. The next flight my instructor said let's just go up for fun, go do maneuvers, and fly to a favorite airport. Those were his best landings ever. BTW, this friend was told to get everything in order because they will be soloing very soon.
 
Tony R said:
This particular day my, ummm, friend was in the pattern for 2 hours and the landings were in the upper teens. By the last few he was getting fatigued and we weren't making progress, so his instructor said let's call it a day. The next flight my instructor said let's just go up for fun, go do maneuvers, and fly to a favorite airport. Those were his best landings ever. BTW, this friend was told to get everything in order because they will be soloing very soon.
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What you describe happens all the time. There is absolutely a point where the repetition produces negative results. All you are doing is overloading. You need to take a break and think.

I have an example from this past week. A member of our flying club came to me with specific concerns about landing quality. We did some on a perfectly calm day with some process recommendations from me. A few good ones, but still “meh“ when we decided to stop so they could take some time to process.

Next lesson, next day. Variable crosswinds about 9G17 a lot of it direct. Great landings, including the issue we were specifically working on.
 
I'm pretty sure the CSI team sprays luminol on your logbook to check for erasures when the FAA does the secret after-hours ramp checks.
 
Use whiteout it makes the keyboard lawyers lose their collective minds.

Never understood this especially in the day and age of electronic log books that can be changed at any time. At the end of the day it is an honor system no matter how you log it.

I keep both paper and electronic. Which is "official"?
 
DFH65 said:
Use whiteout it makes the keyboard lawyers lose their collective minds.

Never understood this especially in the day and age of electronic log books that can be changed at any time. At the end of the day it is an honor system no matter how you log it.

I keep both paper and electronic. Which is "official"?
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I was told at an examiner training session that an applicant had to print out his electronic logbook and sign it. I asked for the reference, and the Fed responded that there wasn’t one, but it needs to be signed so I know the applicant isn’t falsifying his logs.

Just so we’re all clear…

A signature does not prevent falsification, and
there’s no evidence either way after the checkride Because if the applicant was falsifying, he’d just destroy the paper copies on his way out of the building.
 
I get the same nonsense in business all the time. Companies want me to print, sign, and scan documents instead of digitally signing, even though most or all states have laws stating that digital signatures are just as enforceable as ink ones. Sometimes I just say no. They want our money so they usually come around.
 
It's like shopping for a used Aston Martin. Does it really even matter.
 
frfly172 said:
Have often heard fly what you want log what you need.
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In my first few years I wasn't on top of my log entries. I didn't care about building hours, now that I am in the search for a flying job, I wish I had recorded every minute of flight. I was converting my paper logs to electonic, while looking for math errors, I found a few small math errors, and one spot where the same flight was logged twice. It added a couple hours to the total. But, I found flights logged that would only be accurate if my plane was about 50% faster than it is.
 
Besides for currency, who logs landings.??

I figure for every take off there is one landing...usually.

Cross out mistake, add correct number, sign name.
 
Zeldman said:
Besides for currency, who logs landings.??
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I'm not sure what you mean. I log my landings, of course I do. How would you know at the time whether you're going to need them for currency or not? If you just log them all, it takes care of itself.
 
RussR said:
I'm not sure what you mean. I log my landings, of course I do. How would you know at the time whether you're going to need them for currency or not? If you just log them all, it takes care of itself.
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When I was flying for a living, it was given that if I did a night flight, I did a night landing, so no need for specific logging of landings to show currency.

Funny though, in Alaska there was little night flying, so each September I would go out and do my 3 night landings and I would log those 3.
 
Zeldman said:
When I was flying for a living, it was given that if I did a night flight, I did a night landing, so no need for specific logging of landings to show currency.
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IMO, that's not sufficient. I have many, many flights in my logbook where I have zero landings, because I was either the PM or a CFI.

I'd be surprised if there was an FAA interpretation agreeing with your methodology, but I'd be interested in reading it.

EDIT - I just did a logbook query and I have 2,200 hours of flights with no landings logged. Thought that was a fun fact.
 
Logging all of your time is a matter of pride, until there is an accident and then it's a matter of evidence ... ;)
 
I have been asked exactly 0 times about how many landings I have, nor have I ever seen landings listed on a resume.

I wouldn’t sweat it at all
 
I have a couple things...

It's 2024...an ink signature is worth precisely what it is...ink on paper. In other words, worthless. I once tried to renew my vehicle registration in person and had to show proof of insurance. I took my phone out to show my proof of insurance from my provider's app and was promptly told "I don't think <tax assessor's first name> will accept that." Well, if I was to show her the paper copy they provide on request, it's very VERY easy to forge whereas showing electronic proof isn't nearly as easy.

Like mentioned above, the federal government has taken to using pdf forms for many things and it's easy to use a certificate credential to e-sign a document. That is significantly more secure than an ink signature. Yet, sometime I'm asked to provide an ink signature, then scan, then email, so someone on the other end can then print it out, sign it, and provide it. Back in the day when I did a little videography work, we would call that 4 generation degradation. To say nothing about the fact that NOBODY in that line has the foggiest idea what my signature ACTUALLY looks like.

I'd love for e-logbooks such as the one I use in Garmin Pilot to have some means for a CFI to verify an entry aside from me entering their certificate number. If I could do that, I'd likely abandon my paper book altogether. Although, I don't think the written exam administrator I use would appreciate me bringing in my iPad to the test room. He almost didn't let me take my private written because my CFI had not specified "Private" written exam in his endorsement.

...and don't get me started on faxes.
 
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RussR said:
IMO, that's not sufficient. I have many, many flights in my logbook where I have zero landings, because I was either the PM or a CFI.

I'd be surprised if there was an FAA interpretation agreeing with your methodology, but I'd be interested in reading it.

EDIT - I just did a logbook query and I have 2,200 hours of flights with no landings logged. Thought that was a fun fact.
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My logbook is a left handed spiral note book. During an interview, a Director of Operations for a company said he could not hire me because it was not an official log book. I had put in the columns I wanted and left out the useless ones.

The Principle Operations Inspector for the same company (fed from the FAA) said it was a very good logbook and cost a lot less than the leather bound ones. He did check several pages from front to back. Never mentioned that I did not have a column for landings. I had not signed the last few pages and he just reminded me to sign them when I had time.

I did add a column for off airport landings for fun. The location, if not named on a map was just logged using lats and longs off my GPS.

IMO if you are not specifically noting in remarks section of your logbook that you performed no takeoffs of landings during that flight then your logbook is not correct.

You are aware that logbooks are not required, except a few notations such as currency and training that can be logged on a paper bag if so desired.

This:
DavidWhite said:
I have been asked exactly 0 times about how many landings I have, nor have I ever seen landings listed on a resume.
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DavidWhite said:
I have been asked exactly 0 times about how many landings I have, nor have I ever seen landings listed on a resume.

I wouldn’t sweat it at all
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You need to make sure people know that you are a pilot ... like Tommy Smothers does (starts at 2:40):


Gonna miss Tommy ...
 
Tony R said:
So a student pilot friend of mine might have recorded the wrong number of landings on one particular day. The CFI said there were X landings and then when my friend went back to flightaware it was clear to my friend that the number of landings were overstated. (FYI - daytime VFR). Should my friend correct his log book or is this more trouble than it's worth?
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What regulation requires the recording of the number day landings by a student? Why would anyone care?
 
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