Liveaboards, got a question for ya

[James331]

What’s the smallest you’d consider for a sail boat? Like something I could take to the Bahamas, be spending a good bit of time sailing it, needs to be single handable, just be me plus a small/medium dog. Lots of day sailing, at a marina but with some good stints sailing out and spending time on the hook.

Figure it’s a proof of concept before I drop buying a home like money into something big. I used to live aboard growing up, still have my house which is going to be rented out, the more I think about it the more living aboard makes sense for me now.

Found a 33 foot sloop that’s a great deal and in very nice shape, just over a 10 beam and aft cockpit, about half the size of end up with down the road, but for single handed and proof of concept??

 

[JCranford]

I got nuthin for ya, but that would be cool to do for a while!

 

[Tantalum]

My dad has an '81 C&C36 that he spends pretty much the whole summer on and will sail it from Massachusetts down to Florida, etc. Owned it since 1996 and he loves it

Small enough that you can single hand it, big enough that you have some ergonomic "luxuries"

Also, depending on where you want to get into draft is also a consideration, his boat draws 6ft and that makes it tough for some of the smaller harbors and marinas

 

[James331]

My dad has an '81 C&C36 that he spends pretty much the whole summer on and will sail it from Massachusetts down to Florida, etc. Owned it since 1996 and he loves it

Small enough that you can single hand it, big enough that you have some ergonomic "luxuries"

Also, depending on where you want to get into draft is also a consideration, his boat draws 6ft and that makes it tough for some of the smaller harbors and marinas

That’s about what I’m looking for

Here’s more or less one of the ones I’m looking at, add to that I’m not home much.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mystic-30

 

[Kenny Phillips]

One of the writers for Flying sold his house and lives on a sailboat with his wife, a 42-footer IIRC. He's an airline pilot. You can see his columns online at their website.

 

[Tantalum]

That’s about what I’m looking for

Here’s more or less one of the ones I’m looking at, add to that I’m not home much.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mystic-30

Oh man.. beautiful! Those pocket-esq cruisers (this one is too big to be considered a pocket cruiser though) are great for exploring small harbors and marinas in coastal estuaries

and with the larger deck space he could toss a solar panel up there and basically operate totally free and off the grid

 

[Bill]

That’s about what I’m looking for

Here’s more or less one of the ones I’m looking at, add to that I’m not home much.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mystic-30

Nice looking boat, and that cutter rig lends itself to single handing I'd think, especially if the jib and staysail are on roller furlers. My dream boat:

 

[James331]

Nice looking boat, and that cutter rig lends itself to single handing I'd think, especially if the jib and staysail are on roller furlers. My dream boat:

The Amel is a great ship, that and a hanse might be boat number 2 if this goes well

 

[Tantalum]

Nice looking boat, and that cutter rig lends itself to single handing I'd think, especially if the jib and staysail are on roller furlers. My dream boat:

An old friend bought one of these with the plans of sailing around the world, great boat

 

[Fiveslide]

Wife and I lived on a Cheoy Lee clipper 36 and then a slightly larger trawler.

If it was just me, I wouldn't consider anything over 34'. I know you've probably heard the Hunter bashers, but I think one of the most comfortable boats in that size is the Hunter 34 and fits your plans. That would be a roomy liveaboard for one and could fit another person comfortably if you meet a woman or have a visitor.

I was planning on living on a 25' sailboat right about the time I met my wife and shot that plan in the foot. Had to buy a bigger boat.

For a couple, after doing it for three years, I wouldn't consider anything smaller than 44'.

What's your budget, location and how far you want to travel to buy a boat?

 

[Warlock]

For me it would be 38-42, but depending, if I wanted to just have a coastal sailing vessel...Florida/Bahamas smaller would be fine. 38-42 is small enough to single hand with ease, but big enough to support systems making it more comfortable...small genset, water maker and things like that...Me I could not live on a sailboat for long, and I do a lot of blue water passages on sailboats with some 3500 nautical miles of blue water in the last 18 months. I like my comfort. If I was looking for the boat I would be snooping around for a Valiant 40-42 for stable performance, or a Tayana 42 for comfort, both older hulls that built for open water...

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I live on a 31’ Pacific Seacraft. The dingy storage can be an issue if you like hard dinghies.
But otherwise it’s comfortable and easy to sail.

Obligatory video:

Tom

 

[cgrab]

My brother lived on his 48 footer for a while but sold it and lives in a penthouse in NY. Not sure they are related. I lived on a 44 ft yawl for a couple of weeks when I was a Midshipman but that was with ten other guys. We raced from Norfolk to Bermuda and then to Newport. Also sailed to NY for a July 4th parade of sail.

 

[cgrab]

I would like to get a McGreggor 26 for tooling around the Chesapeake if and when we move there. It is NOT for open water but can be used not only as a sail boat but also a motor boat and a camper.

 

[Fiveslide]

For me it would be 38-42, but depending, if I wanted to just have a coastal sailing vessel...Florida/Bahamas smaller would be fine. 38-42 is small enough to single hand with ease, but big enough to support systems making it more comfortable...small genset, water maker and things like that...Me I could not live on a sailboat for long, and I do a lot of blue water passages on sailboats with some 3500 nautical miles of blue water in the last 18 months. I like my comfort. If I was looking for the boat I would be snooping around for a Valiant 40-42 for stable performance, or a Tayana 42 for comfort, both older hulls that built for open water...

Great choices, those. Neither are really suited or priced to be a "proof of concept", those are what I consider forever boats. Boats you buy when you're sure you want this, when you fully understand total cost of ownership and aren't going to try to get back to land as soon as possible. \/

Figure it’s a proof of concept before I drop buying a home like money into something big

 

[Plano Pilot]

Wife and I lived on a Morgan 41 for 9 years, 5 cruising, 4 back home at the dock. Size of the boat depends on the mind set of the people and the size of their wallet. When we were out cruising we met 2 different couples on 27 footers, one went around the world. The high side was a couple with a 60 footer.

St. Lucia:

 

[DavidWhite]

I live on a Gulf 32.....it’s the perfect size for one person.

 

[Bill]

I live on a 31’ Pacific Seacraft. The dingy storage can be an issue if you like hard dinghies.
But otherwise it’s comfortable and easy to sail.

Obligatory video:

Tom

Very nice. Pacific Seacraft makes a great line of boats.

 

[James331]

I’ll be checking the boat out tomorrow.

already did some math on installing a reverse cycle AC system, water pressure system with heat, upgrading the freezer/fridge, making a shape conforming 250W solar array on the rear deck where it looks to be dead space, water maker, swapping from raw water to heat exchanger and overhauling the little Perkins diesel, plus some cosmetics and comfort stuff, think I’ll be spending the purchase price on the upgrades lol. But if it looks good that’s because it was a good price.

Also debating as she already has a newish Radar and auto helm looking into this and tossing on a better sounder/fish finder

https://opencpn.org/

Figuring pull her into dry dock once a year for a quasi annual and budget a few thousand per haul out?

 

[GRG55]

I’ll be checking the boat out tomorrow.

...

Cool idea to consider a liveaboard.

Whatever you do make sure you sail it in a variety of conditions. Just like light GA airplanes they all use the same physics, but have their own individual characteristics.

Sailboats have less interior volume per length of hull compared to a power boat, and the tendency has been to make the cruising boats "beamier". On the shorter hulls that can make for some not so great sailing characteristics in certain conditions. How well does it point upwind? How well does it hold a point of sail in gusty conditions? How does the hull behave when you're working a strong fetch in the opposite direction of the tide?

 

[James331]

Whatever you do make sure you sail it in a variety of conditions. Just like light GA airplanes they all have their own characteristics.

Sailboats have less interior volume per length of hull compared to a power boat, and the tendency has been to make the cruising boats "beamier". On the shorter hulls that can make for some not so great sailing characteristics in certain conditions. How well does it point upwind? How well does it hold a point of sail in gusty conditions? How does the hull behave when you're working a strong fetch in the opposite direction of the tide?

Will do, I’m also having her pulled out before I pull the trigger.

Based on the sailboat data comparison (https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mystic-30)I think she should do quite well, but that was new, she might be a misrigged mess, I’ll try to sail her tomorrow and if that goes well have her pulled out and inspected, if that goes well the journey begins

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Cool idea to consider a liveaboard.

Whatever you do make sure you sail it in a variety of conditions. Just like light GA airplanes they all use the same physics, but have their own individual characteristics.

How are you going to do that? If you’re selling your plane and someone asks to fly it in various conditions, would you give them access to the plane for a few weeks?


Tom

 

[GRG55]

How are you going to do that? If you’re selling your plane and someone asks to fly it in various conditions, would you give them access to the plane for a few weeks?


Tom

Buying a boat is quite different from buying a plane. Most sailboats take months, sometimes a year or more to sell. And you don't need to be type rated or have 10 hours of dual instruction before you can sail it.
For some reason people selling boats seem to be "saner" and more logical to deal with than a lot of people selling planes.

 

[Ghery]

I would like to get a McGreggor 26 for tooling around the Chesapeake if and when we move there. It is NOT for open water but can be used not only as a sail boat but also a motor boat and a camper.

I've got a Hunter 23.5 (1994 model, water ballast, trailerable) and the McGreggor's are what a ham friend in California called "Tupperware boats". Way too thin in the fiberglass. I remember going on a sailing trip with a number of McGreggor's on Folsom Lake decades ago with the Hunter. Tied up with them and there was no comparison. The Hunter was a far better built boat. Not to say that it's perfect, but it is better than the McGreggors. YMMV.

 

[GRG55]

I've got a Hunter 23.5 (1994 model, water ballast, trailerable) and the McGreggor's are what a ham friend in California called "Tupperware boats". Way too thin in the fiberglass. I remember going on a sailing trip with a number of McGreggor's on Folsom Lake decades ago with the Hunter. Tied up with them and there was no comparison. The Hunter was a far better built boat. Not to say that it's perfect, but it is better than the McGreggors. YMMV.

Hunter seems to still be trying to overcome some reputational issues from the late 1980s. They built some sketchy boats back then. I'm from the Pacific Northwest. Back then nobody I knew would touch a Hunter as the rigging wasn't up to even a moderate So'easter blow. But that was a long time ago.

 

[Plano Pilot]

I’ll be checking the boat out tomorrow.

already did some math on installing a reverse cycle AC system, water pressure system with heat, upgrading the freezer/fridge, making a shape conforming 250W solar array on the rear deck where it looks to be dead space, water maker, swapping from raw water to heat exchanger and overhauling the little Perkins diesel, plus some cosmetics and comfort stuff, think I’ll be spending the purchase price on the upgrades lol. But if it looks good that’s because it was a good price.

Also debating as she already has a newish Radar and auto helm looking into this and tossing on a better sounder/fish finder

https://opencpn.org/

Figuring pull her into dry dock once a year for a quasi annual and budget a few thousand per haul out?

Remember things like AC and water makers take up storage space. Since you want AC I am guessing you will be at the dock, do you really need a water maker? If you are going out cruising and need a water maker then get a portable AC, a lot less expensive.

Make sure you can find parts for the Perkins engine, on some of the older ones it is hard. I have a Perkins 4-154 and it is getting harder. Luckily they also used them in tractors, skid loaders and some trucks, so I have bought parts from equipment dealers.

The Mystic 30 looks like a nice boat and rare, only 24 built, according to your link.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Buying a boat is quite different from buying a plane. Most sailboats take months, sometimes a year or more to sell. And you don't need to be type rated or have 10 hours of dual instruction before you can sail it.
For some reason people selling boats seem to be "saner" and more logical to deal with than a lot of people selling planes.

There is no way someone is going to give you a boat to go sailing in all conditions. And no way will they allow you to leave protected waters. They will allow surveys of course, but those are mostly inspections, like a prebuy in the aviation world. They will haul the boat to inspect it, and run the engine going to the yard, but that’s it. Sails are inspected, but that’s done at dock.
Anyone that wants to sail the boat in various conditions is just looking for free sailing time.

 

[Fiveslide]

Hunter seems to still be trying to overcome some reputational issues from the late 1980s. They built some sketchy boats back then. I'm from the Pacific Northwest. Back then nobody I knew would touch a Hunter as the rigging wasn't up to even a moderate So'easter blow. But that was a long time ago.

I owned a Hunter, most of the Hunter bashing I heard came from people that had never owned one or even been aboard one. Which one are you, @GRG55 ? I also owned an older, heavier, "reputable" boat. Wish I'd have bought another Hunter, probably would have gotten to do more sailing and less fixing.

Mother nature can turn any boat to splinters. The most important thing about living aboard and cruising is traveling in the right season, not the name of the manufacturer.

You go to the Bahamas in the winter, you're still dodging and searching for protection from cold fronts. You're out of there by hurricane season or be ready to lose your boat. Even that short little hop, Florida to Bahamas, needs to be planned and timed with the weather every time. That little gulf stream crossing can beat a boat and crew to pieces.

If you're in the NE, you don't want to wait too late in the year to leave and head south, cold fronts in the north Atlantic start rolling through and it gets lumpy out there. Look up the Salty Dog rally around 5 years ago, I had friends out there in that mess.

I hope you love the cruising lifestyle! I know I did. I have a deep itch to get back on a boat go somewhere cool. I'm always shopping for my next boat, even if I have no money.

 

[GRG55]

There is no way someone is going to give you a boat to go sailing in all conditions. And no way will they allow you to leave protected waters. They will allow surveys of course, but those are mostly inspections, like a prebuy in the aviation world. They will haul the boat to inspect it, and run the engine going to the yard, but that’s it. Sails are inspected, but that’s done at dock.
Anyone that wants to sail the boat in various conditions is just looking for free sailing time.

I could not disagree more. I grew up on the west coast. My brothers, who still live there, and I have owned a number of boats over the decades. Still have a J/24. We never bought a single boat without giving it a good shakedown on the water first. And I've never encountered an owner wanting to sell a boat worth buying that didn't want to show you what it can do under sail.

 

[Fiveslide]

I could not disagree more. I grew up on the west coast. My brothers, who still live there, and I have owned a number of boats over the decades. Still have a J/24. We never bought a single boat without giving it a good shakedown on the water first. And I've never encountered an owner wanting to sell a boat worth buying that didn't want to show you what it can do under sail.

I'll take anybody for a sail on my little San Juan 21, don't care if they buy it or not. If I'm selling something expensive with numerous systems that can break and cause costly repairs, I'll allow a sea trial after the haul out and survey. Then I at least know they are serious if they've gone to the expense of those things.

 

[James331]

Remember things like AC and water makers take up storage space. Since you want AC I am guessing you will be at the dock, do you really need a water maker? If you are going out cruising and need a water maker then get a portable AC, a lot less expensive.

Make sure you can find parts for the Perkins engine, on some of the older ones it is hard. I have a Perkins 4-154 and it is getting harder. Luckily they also used them in tractors, skid loaders and some trucks, so I have bought parts from equipment dealers.

The Mystic 30 looks like a nice boat and rare, only 24 built, according to your link.

I might not do the water maker, the rest I should have some space for in the dead space aft of the stair well, taking a inventory of what I have at my place, I really don’t have much stuff, nice thing with having a hangar is I can keep large stuff and heavy specialty tools there. I do see getting my scuba cert in the future and some gear for the boat.

Gotta admit I’m stoked to check this thing out tomorrow, but still keeping in mind waaaaaay more people want my money than his boat.

The AC system and fridge should work with the solar and batteries, but she will be at port, though it will be spending time away and needs to not turn into jungle inside climate wise.

Engine, end of the day I might just swap it for a 30hp 3gm30f.

 

[Plano Pilot]

The AC system and fridge should work with the solar and batteries, but she will be at port, though it will be spending time away and needs to not turn into jungle inside climate wise.

QUOTE]

I have never seen a solar/battery system that would power an AC. Even with a wind generator.

Say an AC pulls 10amps 120 volts, this is a low estimate, convert it to 12 volts= 120 amps from 12V.

 

[James331]

It’s like 3amp on 230ac, so what would that work out as for a 250watt solar system with two good lithium batts?

 

[GRG55]

It’s like 3amp on 230ac, so what would that work out as for a 250watt solar system with two good lithium batts

It's been a quite a few years since my last 'trical engineering class, but 2.4 amps at 230 volts is about 550 watts.
You'll probably need to be on shore power to run that.

 

[James331]

It's been a quite a few years since my last 'trical engineering class, but 2.4 amps at 230 volts is about 550 watts.
You'll probably need to be on shore power to run that.

Or maybe I’ll just try to not be away from the dock if it’s supper muggy.

 

[Fiveslide]

Or maybe I’ll just try to not be away from the dock if it’s supper muggy.

There is a guy on cruisersforum that runs one of his AC with a little Honda 2000 generator when needed. One appropriately sized for the Mystic 30 could be run by that genset. I don't think there is a boat out there that runs AC without some form of fossil fuel burning charging system, whether it be a genset or two big alternators on the main engine. People ask about this all the time over on CF, they never come back on and post that it was a huge success and works perfectly.

A boat AC would need more batteries and solar panels than you can reasonably fit. You could get a bigger boat, but then you need a bigger AC system and you have the same problem you had, more batteries and panels than you can fit.

He sets the Honda in his dinghy tied to the back of the boat and carefully monitors CO levels. He's also a pilot, I'm surprised he isn't a contributor here.

If you're away from the marina you don't need AC nearly as much as you think.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I run a small window AC using Honda 1000 generator, it only draws about 5 amps, but you may need to turn off auto throttle if it cycles off/on. If going that route, you’ll need to shade the boat, at least here in Florida.


Tom

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Make sure you can find parts for the Perkins engine, on some of the older ones it is hard. I have a Perkins 4-154 and it is getting harder. Luckily they also used them in tractors, skid loaders and some trucks, so I have bought parts from equipment dealers.

@James331
I have some insider contacts at Perkins if you decide to buy and have issues getting parts. It may not help, but just letting you know.

 

[Plano Pilot]

@James331
I have some insider contacts at Perkins if you decide to buy and have issues getting parts. It may not help, but just letting you know.

Thanks but so far I am fine.

 

[Ted]

Living off-grid and having all the amenities of an on-grid/powered setup is going to be hard no matter how you look at it.

Henning has pointed out before that when you're actually on the water, you really don't have the same need for AC like you do on land. Of course some of that depends on your tolerance for temperature swings. I know that for us, going without any sort of AC on a liveaboard would be a no way. But if it were me solo, especially for a proof of concept, I might not care so much.