Linux for senior?

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JGoodish

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JGoodish
My mother-in-law has a basic x86 laptop with Windows Vista (OEM). She's been having problems with it, and recently acquired a new PC with Windows 8, which she does not like at all. Is there a Linux distribution that can be made "simple" so that, after it's built, she won't have to fuss with anything? All she really does is basic email, web browsing, and photos from her point and shoot digital camera.


Thanks,
JKG
 
Not really.

People used to install Linux because they liked to fuss with things.

I installed the most recent version of Ubuntu, gave it a week then installed windows 8.

I used to compile my own Linux kernels when they were monolithic and on into the modularized kernels, roll my own installs from source code and helped build some odd ball scanner drivers for the SANE project.

My conclusion: Linux sucks.

Desktop UNIX for people who don't like to mess with stuff is called "OS X"
 
bartmc said:
Not really.

People used to install Linux because they liked to fuss with things.

I installed the most recent version of Ubuntu, gave it a week then installed windows 8.

I used to compile my own Linux kernels when they were monolithic and on into the modularized kernels, roll my own installs from source code and helped build some odd ball scanner drivers for the SANE project.

My conclusion: Linux sucks.

Desktop UNIX for people who don't like to mess with stuff is called "OS X"
Click to expand...
A better statement would be that Linux generally sucks on the desktop.

In the internet server world it is king these days.
 
Unfortunately, I kind of have to agree lately. The last few versions of Ubuntu have really gone the wrong direction, and reduced intuitive user experience.

Its too bad, because 10.04LTS was by far the best Linux OS, out of the box, for a desktop.
 
What Jesse said. And it seems most distros are actively trying to make Linux suck worse for the desktop. One exception: Wine is (finally) starting to get better with age.
 
Depending on the age of the MIL and her technical prowess, you may be better upgrading the laptop to WinXP and downgrading the desktop to the same. One opsys for her to use.

-Skip
 
jesse said:
A better statement would be that Linux generally sucks on the desktop.

In the internet server world it is king these days.
Click to expand...

This.

(Though I prefer FreeBSD, they're both close enough).

Sounds like a Mac is in order.
 
I only run Fefora on my new x64 laptop and it's great, it's stock GUI is super easy, that's the thing with Linux, you can make it as simple or hard as you like, heck I've seen Gnome desktops skinned JUST like a Mac.
 
Well, I will offer a qualified idea.

http://knoppix.net/

It's about as simple as a Linux gets, but to be honest it's not the easiest of things in the world, and it is not MS.
 
Just put one of the free "make the tiled interface go away and put the start menu back" programs on the Win8 machine. It'll look just like Vista/Win7.
I like the one from IOBIT.com (start menu 8 - free)
Trust me, there is nothing easy about any Linux version, although it could probably be tweaked into submission.
 
DaleB said:
What Jesse said. And it seems most distros are actively trying to make Linux suck worse for the desktop. One exception: Wine is (finally) starting to get better with age.
Click to expand...

Agreed, for the most part. The combination of the increasing suckiness of Linux on the desktop, combined with the overall excellence of Win7, have converted me back to Windows as my primary desktop OS. For servers (both local and Internet), I still use Linux -- and it's better than ever, in my opinion. But the groups working on Linux desktop implementations have made a total mess out of what was once at least usable.

I will say this, though: The last Fedora distro I tried on the desktop seemed pretty usable right out-of-the-box for day-to-day work like email, Web surfing, chatting, word processing, etc. If Win7 weren't so good, I might be using Fedora for everything except the Adobe products that I use.

But even with Fedora, there would still be a learning curve for your MIL. I think upgrading the Vista machine to Win7, and downgrading the Win8 machine to Win7, would probably make her happier.

As for Ubuntu, I used to install it for the very young and very old members of my family. They used it happily, with minimal fuss, and few support calls. But Ubuntu's gone off in strange directions with the last two releases, and the changes have affected not only the user experience, but the system's basic stability.

-Rich
 
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. As I suspected, your comments basically validate my own opinion, which is unfortunate. It seems that there is so much potential for Linux on the desktop, but perhaps not the right focus to create a system for the non-technical end user, something that Apple has done quite well with Mac OS X (as noted by others).

Unfortunately, Windows (even Windows 7) isn't much better in the long run. With the endless patches and temptations to download every little gizmo application to clutter the system and suck up resources, I've now cleaned my mother in law's system multiple times, only to have the same problems return. I went down this path with my wife years ago, until I told her that I wasn't going to do it any more. I bought her a Mac, and the support problems for the most part disappeared. It sounds as though the same is in order for this situation.


JKG
 
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I offer this as a panacea, and no reflection on dear old mom, but why don't you outfit the OS as admin, then lock it down, and make her a guest user with very limited privileges.

Since Win XP, the admin parental controls have gotten quite good as MS has decided that the most important feature of it's OS is to be parent friendly.

Again, no offence to dear old mom, but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
 
docmirror said:
I offer this as a panacea, and no reflection on dear old mom, but why don't you outfit the OS as admin, then lock it down, and make her a guest user with very limited privileges.

Since Win XP, the admin parental controls have gotten quite good as MS has decided that the most important feature of it's OS is to be parent friendly.

Again, no offence to dear old mom, but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Click to expand...

This ^
It is not hard to do at all on Win 7 or 8, in fact it is built in. I did this with my former MIL and the only calls I got involved printers. It is called UAC (User Account Control) and while many of us curse it as we disable it, it is a beautiful thing in certain situations.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
While I agree with many comments in this thread about linux on the desktop, you might look into whether you can install ChromiumOS on that device. The only concern I would have is whether it would auto-update (I'm not sure if the non-Google builds have this feature).

I have an old chromebook and it is basically as bulletproof as it gets, but of course it only works for browsing (but it isn't like you were going to be able to install boxed software on Ubuntu). If you actually buy a chromebook you of course get that out of the box, but you might be able to do as well installing it yourself. Just do a little research, and I'd be curious as to what you find.
 
docmirror said:
I offer this as a panacea, and no reflection on dear old mom, but why don't you outfit the OS as admin, then lock it down, and make her a guest user with very limited privileges.

Since Win XP, the admin parental controls have gotten quite good as MS has decided that the most important feature of it's OS is to be parent friendly.

Again, no offence to dear old mom, but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
Click to expand...

Good suggestion, but that still doesn't get rid of the support problem when she isn't permitted to do something, or something doesn't work, or the system can't find or stay connected to the WLAN (as even happens with my Win 7 laptop), or virus definitions or OS updates need to happen, etc. In my experience, Mac OS X just works better, with far fewer issues.

It sounds as though I'm not missing anything with desktop Linux, so I'll probably suggest that she return the Win 8 machine and look into getting something with an Apple logo on it. If she won't go for that, locking things down might be the next best option.


JKG
 
rich0 said:
While I agree with many comments in this thread about linux on the desktop, you might look into whether you can install ChromiumOS on that device. The only concern I would have is whether it would auto-update (I'm not sure if the non-Google builds have this feature).

I have an old chromebook and it is basically as bulletproof as it gets, but of course it only works for browsing (but it isn't like you were going to be able to install boxed software on Ubuntu). If you actually buy a chromebook you of course get that out of the box, but you might be able to do as well installing it yourself. Just do a little research, and I'd be curious as to what you find.
Click to expand...

I thought about ChromiumOS, but:

1) I don't like Google. I don't trust Google. Google has proven that they can't be trusted, and they don't need to know everything about everything that someone does on their computing device(s);
2) A browser-based OS reliant on Google online services wouldn't work for her workflows;
3) My understanding is that it isn't supported except on ChromeBooks, the purchase of which I could not recommend because of the prior two issues.

JKG
 
JGoodish said:
Good suggestion, but that still doesn't get rid of the support problem when she isn't permitted to do something, or something doesn't work, or the system can't find or stay connected to the WLAN (as even happens with my Win 7 laptop), or virus definitions or OS updates need to happen, etc. In my experience, Mac OS X just works better, with far fewer issues.

It sounds as though I'm not missing anything with desktop Linux, so I'll probably suggest that she return the Win 8 machine and look into getting something with an Apple logo on it. If she won't go for that, locking things down might be the next best option.


JKG
Click to expand...

It sounds like your mind was made up before you posted. Win updates are automatic and so are virus definitions. I am not knocking your choice, but the only real reason your MIL needs to buy a new computer is to meet your requirements for support. Again, I am not knocking this either, I do it all the time with my clients, but I don't try to blame it on anything else. I just say this is what we support.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
What do people here think of the Mint implementation of Linux? One of the ZDnet writers just raves about it. Agree? Disagree?
 
I'm rather shocked at the responses. I use OS X on my notebooks, but on a PC I find the OSS desktops pretty good. The reason I don't like OSS on notebooks comes down to battery life -- I never could get things tweaked well enough to match what the manufacturers did with Windows or OS X in terms of power consumption.

In terms of usability, stability, and security OSS can be great on the desktop. I've done it more than once for "old" users and computer lab situations. I've done it with FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux (and Solaris, but that's not OSS).

As for myself, I used KDE and xfce as my primary desktops for years (primarily on BSDs), without tons of tinkering. Sure setup took some work, but once setup it's not much.

I had this one user I supported once that would not give up olvwm as her desktop (on Solaris). She knew how to do everything she wanted to do on there and moving her to something else when we retired that system was *tough*. I forget what I got her on eventually. I supported several other users that used various iterations of Gnome and they were more than productive with it.
 
Palmpilot said:
What do people here think of the Mint implementation of Linux? One of the ZDnet writers just raves about it. Agree? Disagree?
Click to expand...
I used Mint for a while and liked it.

The reason I switched away from it is the short support cycle. Like a lot of distros, you get no patches, not even security patches, after a very short cycle. I don't want to have to wipe and rebuild my desktop every 12-18 months (tops), and trying to upgrade Mint to a newer release was a complete disaster. To be honest -- I have a dual boot setup now and use Win7 a lot of the time now. All of my development stuff needs Windows, and I'm still getting updates even for my XP system in the basement. it's been running XP since - what? 2001, 2002?
 
Very useful information; thanks!
 
John221us said:
It sounds like your mind was made up before you posted. Win updates are automatic and so are virus definitions. I am not knocking your choice, but the only real reason your MIL needs to buy a new computer is to meet your requirements for support. Again, I am not knocking this either, I do it all the time with my clients, but I don't try to blame it on anything else. I just say this is what we support.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...

No, my mind wasn't made up, and that's why I asked the question about Linux. I didn't ask about OS X or Windows. I've done Windows support for years, on my own PCs as well as those of family members. It's substantially better than it used to be, but nowhere close to OS X for nearly hands-off support. Granted, many of the existing issues with Windows may be related to hardware, but that's the undeniable advantage of Mac OS X--it's tied to specific hardware that eliminates many of the potential issues caused by hardware/software interaction. I've also never had virus protection on my Macs, never had a virus or issue with malware, never had to configure a printer, don't have to think about backups or restore (thanks to Time Machine), and rarely have issues with networking. Also, most Mac applications work in basically the same way, so phone support becomes much easier if things in a specific menu in one application are in the same place in another application. I've done all of that stuff on Windows, including my Windows 7 machine, but it has required significantly more work to configure and for care and feeding.

I know the advantages of Mac OS X but, as you point out, adopting it would require her to buy new hardware.

My experience with Linux would suggest that initial configuration would be significantly more cumbersome than Windows, although I suspect that general stability and performance may be better, but none of that really helps in this case if she needs to be tech-savvy to make things work.


JKG
 
Ubuntu is probably your best choice for this.

I'd give it a shot, and if it doesn't work out get a copy of Windows 7 on there or something.
 
I'd suggest Linux Mint, though I am biased, and also not a senior. I used Windows XP for years, refusing to upgrade to Vista. When I built my new computer, I decided to try Linux Mint and I can't rave enough about it.

I am using Linux Mint 13 "Maya" which is a Long Term Support version (5 years). I use the Cinnamon desktop. Literally all of my peripherals just worked. Setup was a breeze. It's dirt simple to use.

One of the stated goals of Linux Mint is to work right out of the box with full mutlimedia support, and in that area it succeeds. The Cinnamon desktop is similar enough to Windows XP-style that it should be too terrible to get used to it.

I'm considering installing it for my mother when she gets a bit older.

PalmPilot said:
What do people here think of the Mint implementation of Linux? One of the ZDnet writers just raves about it. Agree? Disagree?
Click to expand...
See above. Your issues will likely be that some of your software doesn't work on Linux. Gaming support is abysmal. Many specialty programs are Windows-only, etc.

Linux Mint makes some of their versions LTS (long-term support) versions. Mint 13 will be supported for five years. Others are on 18-month support cycles.
 
Late to the thread, but I wouldn't wish the Linux desktop on my worst enemy, and I'm a Linux admin for a living.

Get her a Mac and pay for extended AppleCare. Show her how to book appointments at the Genius Bar. And run far far away.

Because MIL computer support is not good on sooooo many levels...
 
denverpilot said:
Late to the thread, but I wouldn't wish the Linux desktop on my worst enemy, and I'm a Linux admin for a living.

Get her a Mac and pay for extended AppleCare. Show her how to book appointments at the Genius Bar. And run far far away.

Because MIL computer support is not good on sooooo many levels...
Click to expand...

Got the MIL a Kindle Fire HD for Mothers day..
 
Hmm...

Mother In Law.

Senior Citizen.

You're on the hook for tech support.


...Throw her a damn etch-a-sketch, man, and run fast the other way while she tries to catch it. What hell have you gotten yourself into?

You might also consider giving her WinXP. It's probably what she really wants anyway. Who cares that it's not ideal for new hardware -- her pinterest surfing sessions and recipe-gathering won't suffer for it. Snap an ISO of the vanilla install, and every time she calls with the latest phishing virus, browser DNS redirect, or some other ukranian JS nonsense from grammas-man-candy.com, flash the f'er back to ground zero. Teach her how to use a thumbdrive if she wants to save files.
 
Web browsing, email, and photos? Get an ipad with a Bluetooth keyboard. Does all of those things, no virus worries
​
, battery lasts forever, and lots of people have experience with iOS that could help with whatever issues she comes up with.
 
Unfortunately, Windows (even Windows 7) isn't much better in the long run. With the endless patches and temptations to download every little gizmo application to clutter the system and suck up resources,
Click to expand...

I own and program in Windows, OS-X, Linux, and Android boxes. I'm kind of confused by this 'endless patches' idea. That's not something I've noticed.

As far as "download every little gizmo application", I've plenty of 'gizmo's for OS-X also.

It is a fact that OS-X benefits from security by obscurity. It's not true that it is more secure than Windows 7 or 8.

OS-X is a lot happier to allow the user to download and install applications that are unsigned or signed by an unknown certificate than Windows.

I think Mom would be best served in the desktop/laptop space by Windows 7, or Windows 8 with one of the aforementioned 'bring back the desktop' utilities.

A 10" tablet with a BT keyboard might also be a good choice.
 
JimNtexas said:
I own and program in Windows, OS-X, Linux, and Android boxes. I'm kind of confused by this 'endless patches' idea. That's not something I've noticed.
Click to expand...

So you don't apply Microsoft's continuous stream of updates and patches? Yes, Apple updates and patches as well, but not anywhere close to as many nor as often.

JimNtexas said:
As far as "download every little gizmo application", I've plenty of 'gizmo's for OS-X also.
Click to expand...

So do I, but it's easy to tell which ones are installed, what they're doing, and uninstall them (usually by drag and drop), and they're gone. I've had none of them suck the performance out of the system like I've seen on various versions of Windows, including Windows 7. And getting rid of stuff in Windows is a crapshoot, because it's almost a guarantee that there will be a trail of garbage left behind even if you use the application's uninstall procedure and instruct it to remove everything.

Plus, there is a heck of a lot less bloat in Mac OS X to begin with.

JimNtexas said:
It is a fact that OS-X benefits from security by obscurity. It's not true that it is more secure than Windows 7 or 8.
Click to expand...

It is true that OS X does not possess the market share of Windows, but it's a long way from obscure these days. Regardless, the reason is unimportant, the results are what matter.

I've spent 20+ years using and supporting Macs and Windows machines, and I can tell you that for a variety of reasons, Macs have always been and continue to be far easier to support. My question was really about whether Linux had matured on the desktop, but it sounds as though the answer is, at least, "not enough."


JKG
 
bluesky74656 said:
Web browsing, email, and photos? Get an ipad with a Bluetooth keyboard. Does all of those things, no virus worries
​
, battery lasts forever, and lots of people have experience with iOS that could help with whatever issues she comes up with.
Click to expand...

This isn't a bad idea.
 
JimNtexas said:
I own and program in Windows, OS-X, Linux, and Android boxes. I'm kind of confused by this 'endless patches' idea. That's not something I've noticed.
Click to expand...

Google, "Patch Tuesday". Like clockwork. If you're not noticing it, you probably have automated updates turned on.

Which is not appropriate for many business environments where patch audits are required by third parties.

(The effectiveness of said third party audits is questionable at best, but nevertheless...)
 
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