Light twin losing an engine at high den. Alt?

Christopher

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Christopher
What would you do if you lost an engine on takeoff and you were at your single engine service ceiling without runway left (High elevation airport) would you put the gear down or up to land?
 
Based in information you have posted, leave the gear up and if you can’t climb/maintain altitude, pick the best spot and if that is not a hard surface, land on the belly and let insurance figure it out
 
Is this in a low wing or high wing?


(that was a joke, I say a joke)
 
Without runway left you're already gear up. I'd leave it up and keep the airplane clean. #1 rule fly the airplane to the scene of the crash.. this is especially true in light twins. Don't let trying limp it along (when obviously it won't limp along) override with the need to keep the airplane under control even if it lands off-airport. Engine failures in twins go wrong because people stop flying the airplane for one reason or another.
 
What would you do if you lost an engine on takeoff and you were at your single engine service ceiling without runway left (High elevation airport) would you put the gear down or up to land?

When did you toss the engine and is the gear even up yet?

We are often well above our single engine service ceiling in Density Altitude here in summer. Well above it.

Guaranteed drift down and remember the performance chart is for when the aircraft is clean and the prop on the dead engine is feathered. Performance is significantly worse in any other configuration.

We discuss the pros and cons of pulling it up too soon after positive rate on poor performance days. The POH says it’s 13+ seconds in transit and all of the drag won’t go away until it’s all the way up.

If your performance chart shows your single engine climb rate is negative on a hot day, you can reverse calculate when you should bring it up.

Because even if you had it in transit on certain days, you’re going to impact somewhere in roughly two seconds at the typical downward speed and time you have before ground contact.

You MIGHT want the gear under you when you hit.

It’s worth running the numbers and deciding well before you go start the engines and push the throttles up. And if it just started up and you toss an engine right then at super low altitude you MIGHT just want to reach for the gear handle first and get it back down.

The extra drag MIGHT just help you get it back on the remaining runway and get it stopped before going through the fence. Or at least slower.

Your call. Most light twins won’t climb or do anything near a climb on a really hot day here. Best to think about it, have a plan, announce the plan as part of your out loud pre-takeoff brief, and fully understand the risk you’re about to take.

Maybe even calculate your own Accelerate-Stop distance, since most light twins don’t provide it. Know your runway length. And take a look at what’s on the other side of the airport fence even. In certain scenarios, you’re going there.

I might accept the lower climb rate with the gear hanging out for a few seconds if the two engine climb rate can get me to where I can’t use the available remaining runway. Especially when it takes 13 seconds by the book to get into the wheel wells on the airplane I was flying.

In practice with no obstacles, this turns into rotation, a positive rate call out, hand on the throttles, a Vy climb, count to two or three potato and now we can’t use the remaining runway, now throw the handle and as the drag disappears pitch slightly more up to maintain Vy. Because you’ve already calculated that you can’t climb on one anyway.

If the failure happens before the gear handle is up, great. Land straight ahead and get on the brakes. Accept it. If it happens after the handle is up MAYBE you can feather it in time to get level flight out of it at blue line or even a slight descent. If not, you have a few seconds to pick the best off field landing spot. Either way, you accept the performance you get and choose accordingly.

And don’t feather the wrong mill.

If you haven’t practiced going around the pattern at only 500’ AGL due to a simulated partial power loss, you should sometime at an airport where such a maneuver is reasonable. It looks different and people tend to stay a little too close to the runway and need too big a bank to turn base and final.

If anything just make a continuous turn monitoring airspeed and be willing to put the nose down when you lose some of your vertical component of lift to make the last turn(s).
 
Just to reiterate a part of @denverpilot 's response...remember that the rate of climb you calculate is with gear up and prop feathered at the minimum. IIRC, Cessna published cowl flaps open at a 200 fpm loss in the 414s.

Make an honest assessment about the time it takes you to clean the airplane up...I may be infinitely better than anybody I ever trained :rolleyes:, but I've seen enough very experienced pilots try to feather the wrong prop that I'm planning on taking my time. I'd rather hit the ground at a planned low sink rate than at a surprised no-thrust rate.
 
If you’re maintaining any speed above stall speed, then you have airspeed to arrest at least some of your rate of descent before touchdown. Additionally, something to consider, if you’re going down one way or another, that landing gear (struts, tires, linkage) MAY help to cushion the hit as well as provide things to shear off as you bleed off that energy. With that said, the opposite could happen...nose gear grabs an immovable object and you lawn dart (very bad due to the abrupt stop) or a main grabs the object and you’re spun into another undesired direction or other object. So the answer is always “it depends” and is dependent on a lot of factors that weren’t provided. What is MOST important about your situation: remember to fly the airplane all the way through the crash...which includes pointing the nose BETWEEN the trees and letting the wings take the impact.
 
What would you do if you lost an engine on takeoff and you were at your single engine service ceiling without runway left (High elevation airport) would you put the gear down or up to land?
100% depends on what's ahead of me. I am going to position the gear that gives me the safest outcome. Notice I said me and not the plane. The insurance company owns the plane...I just rent it from them. My most likely scenario is gear up.
 
Just like everything else, depends.

What's after the runway, how much runway is left, day or night, IMC or VMC.
 
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